VSCCS Certified Engineer in Sydney

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by froop

Just an update, I called up Simon at Comptune down in Narellan and he seemed very helpful. This is the engineer that Pete listed, but the number is actually 1300 527 227. He said that there would be no issues in engineering the seats (even if they are only FIA approved), brackets etc but the overall estimated quote was $1200. I believe however that this was including engine mods, seats, seat belts, cage.

I asked him whether it was necessary that I get ADR approved seats however he said that as long as it was FIA approved, everything else just came down to "good engineering".

I do need to get an RMS emissions test first though before taking my car down there to make sure that it passes the emissions standards.

This is excellent news.

Did you discuss getting the seats airbag errors coded out first?

I think i know where my next commission check is going.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

This is excellent news.

Did you discuss getting the seats airbag errors coded out first?

I think i know where my next commission check is going.

Nah I didn't get the chance to discuss that unfortunately.

I have however purchase some seat occupancy sensor, seatbelt and airbag emulators from an eBay store in the UK which is supposed to tell the computer that all of these things are plugged in and thus shouldn't affect the deployment of any other airbags. This should mean that for me, I don't need to code anything or worry about it affecting the other areas of the SRS of the car.

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by froop

Nah I didn't get the chance to discuss that unfortunately.

I have however purchase some seat occupancy sensor, seatbelt and airbag emulators from an eBay store in the UK which is supposed to tell the computer that all of these things are plugged in and thus shouldn't affect the deployment of any other airbags. This should mean that for me, I don't need to code anything or worry about it affecting the other areas of the SRS of the car.

Can you advise the store name. I want to see if they have some 2006 E87 ones.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

Can you advise the store name. I want to see if they have some 2006 E87 ones.

Should work for E87s as well but I haven't tried plugging mine in yet. I have a feeling it requires some splicing of wires and is not 100% plug and play.


Look at this on eBay:

bypass for BMW E60 E61 E90 E63 E65 E87 seat occupancy sensor mat emulator

http://bit.ly/1h77Dfr

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

Just an update, I called up Simon at Comptune down in Narellan and he seemed very helpful. This is the engineer that Pete listed, but the number is actually 1300 527 227. He said that there would be no issues in engineering the seats (even if they are only FIA approved), brackets etc but the overall estimated quote was $1200. I believe however that this was including engine mods, seats, seat belts, cage.

I asked him whether it was necessary that I get ADR approved seats however he said that as long as it was FIA approved, everything else just came down to "good engineering".

I do need to get an RMS emissions test first though before taking my car down there to make sure that it passes the emissions standards.

fark that expnsive, i always heard it as $300-$400 then $50-$100 per extra mod ED: oh, inc cage and other engine mods you've done, that makes way more sense and is pretty cool then.

must involve some pretty solid testing on his behalf

And he said it'd be ok, even if you're deleting the airbags?

strange that he's allowed to do FIA only with no ADR.. i know FIA standards vastly exceed ADR, but i don't think your run of the mill engineer is either able or willing to go through all that.

sucks (and also kinda odd) that you have to get emissions though haha.. or is that relating to you gettig whatever engine mods you want engineered done?

[froop]

It does seem expensive but I listed a lot of mods, incl the whole m3 retrofit. I'll need to see whether or not that actually needs certification.

Regarding the "good engineering" I think what it is is that he will make the argument that the seats/mounts/anchorages meet ADR requirements.

As for the airbags, again, it doesn't matter whether the seat you are replacing it with doesn't have airbags if you are planning on getting it certified and you are able to maintain all of the other SRS functions.

[thewafflecaust]

How are you going to go with the emissions test without primary cats? Or are you going to stick your stock dps back on.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

It does seem expensive but I listed a lot of mods, incl the whole m3 retrofit. I'll need to see whether or not that actually needs certification.

Regarding the "good engineering" I think what it is is that he will make the argument that the seats/mounts/anchorages meet ADR requirements.

As for the airbags, again, it doesn't matter whether the seat you are replacing it with doesn't have airbags if you are planning on getting it certified and you are able to maintain all of the other SRS functions.

That's a good rule change for us car people then

PRE-NCOP, removing airbags period was absolute no in all the pre-ncop docs i've found

so very very good news

the M3 retrofit shouldn't NEED certification as it's all OEM, and was fit to the E82 chassis in 1M guise, and is a fully direct bolt-on kit, but getting it plated can't hurt and wouldn't be expensive

[froop]

Originally Posted by thewafflecaust

How are you going to go with the emissions test without primary cats? Or are you going to stick your stock dps back on.

I'm going to go there with mid cats and using the Procede on map 0 and see how I do. If I don't pass then fuck it, I won't get that bit engineered, just the seats and seatbelt lol. I can't be bothered putting DPs etc back on.

I wonder though what happens if I out it on map 3 (NA mode), whether that will give reduced emissions.

[thewafflecaust]

Originally Posted by froop

I'm going to go there with mid cats and using the Procede on map 0 and see how I do. If I don't pass then fuck it, I won't get that bit engineered, just the seats and seatbelt lol. I can't be bothered putting DPs etc back on.

I wonder though what happens if I out it on map 3 (NA mode), whether that will give reduced emissions.

Let us know how you go. I was under the impression the secondary cats do next to nothing once you put some kms into them.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by thewafflecaust

Let us know how you go. I was under the impression the secondary cats do next to nothing once you put some kms into them.

As far as i'm aware, the primary cats are just to get up to temp and get emissions down before the secondaries are online

just make sure to get there with them properly warmed up and fully working, and cross fingers lol

[froop]

Originally Posted by flinchy

As far as i'm aware, the primary cats are just to get up to temp and get emissions down before the secondaries are online

just make sure to get there with them properly warmed up and fully working, and cross fingers lol

Yeah I'm hoping that is the case haha.

Btw, this is an excerpt from the NCOP 7 Section LK Seating and Occupant Protection.

4 BASIC MODIFICATIONS WITHOUT CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be carried out without certification under an LK Code, provided that the vehicle continues to comply with relevant ADRs and AVSR and provided that the vehicle meets the following general safety requirements.

4.1 OPTIONAL SEATS
Manufacturer’s optional seats may be fitted provided that:
 the seats, seatbelts and all other associated components are from the same make and model as the vehicle to which they are being fitted;
 the installation is in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;
 all components used are unmodified;
 the seating capacity is unaltered; and
 the safety features of the seat are not downgraded (e.g. seats fitted with side airbags are not replaced with seats that do not have this feature or are not compatible with the parent
vehicle safety systems).

This basically means that if you are replacing the OE seat with another OE optional seat and don't want to undergo certification then you can't downgrade the safety systems by installing a seat without a side airbag. There is no mention however of the need to maintain any airbags or restraints systems when installing or replacing a seat. It only mentions that you cannot remove a seat if it affects the SRS however this can be easily solved by using seat/airbag/seatbelt modules or coding.

In regards to maintaining the appropriate ADRs in table LK3 of the NCOP 7 when modifying a vehicle's seats, there is no mention of airbags in the ADR 72/00 for dynamic side impact occupant protection, meaning that it is not necessary to have side airbags to meet the ADR requirements. You just need to show that with the new seat you meet the requirements (i.e. not too low or close to the side etc)

[Giveway74]

Hey Alex,

I just emailed the guy with the with the seat bypass emulators.
He advised that the seat emulator does not simulate the airbag. Just the seatbelt and the occupancy sensor. There is an additional module for the airbag. Not sure if you bought this as well.

if you want to buy the whole set for both seats, which means:
- 2 x seat occypancy sensor emulator
- 2 x seat belt simulator
- 2 x airbag simulator

I can offer you a discount for airbag simulator - £1 per piece.

I'm about to put an order in tonight. Let me know if you want me to order you 2 Airbag modules as well.

[froop]

Thanks Jeff, but yeah it's all good. I almost made that mistake but clarified before I ordered and I have 2 of everything as well. I need to get some instructions from the guy on how to install them all though.

Once I confirm again with the engineer that it's definitely ok to buy the sparco's I'll go ahead and buy and try install it all this weekend

[froop]

Ok so I just called up the engineer to confirm it was ok to install FIA buckets without airbags and despite saying that it was ok before he now says that it's not ok to remove side airbags unless approval is obtained from the RMS. I'll have to do a little more closer reading into the ADRs as there is definitely no definitive statement on the NCOP.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

Ok so I just called up the engineer to confirm it was ok to install FIA buckets without airbags and despite saying that it was ok before he now says that it's not ok to remove side airbags unless approval is obtained from the RMS. I'll have to do a little more closer reading into the ADRs as there is definitely no definitive statement on the NCOP.

wonder why he said one thing before, and now another... RMS = department of transport for you guys?.. Guessing that's gonna suck even more then -_-

did he give any reason why or just said 'no'?

[froop]

I think the issue is that the car passed ADR with a side airbag and if you remove the airbag it may no longer comply and there's no way to test unless you crash test the car without airbags...

[flinchy]

Man that sucks.

[froop]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Man that sucks.

Yep....

There is an M3 GTS so for the E92 crowd it could be possible to argue that the car passes ECE and this ADR regulations even without side airbags as that car comes with recaro fixed back buckets standard.

I guess I could always say to the cop "Yes officer, the seats and cage are a standard option for the 135i GTS!"

Maybe get some buckets custom trimmed so that they have a BMW logo on them.

[flinchy]

get the plastic cover for the airbags and glue/stitch them in?

>_>

was the M3 GTS ever ADR approved/street legal over here?

[froop]

Originally Posted by flinchy

get the plastic cover for the airbags and glue/stitch them in?

>_>

was the M3 GTS ever ADR approved/street legal over here?

It wasn't sold in Australia this wouldn't have been required to get ADR approval however the ADR uses ECE90 regulations which is worldwide. So if it is approved in the US it should be approved in Australia. In theory... It only wasn't sold in Australia due to them not making RHD models.

And LOL, I wonder how that would look with glued on airbag covers.

Another thing I was thinking of would be to get those seat covers they sell in supercheapauto or whatever. It would cover the fact that you have a fixed back bucket and some have an airbag tag on it. The only issue with that is that it looks shit... Maybe some pink Playboy ones...

[flinchy]

I read something about the US using their own regulations, as do canada, which are different to ECE? It didn't make much sense at the time + sounded a bit ridiculous, but could be true?

Need Frangipani covers imo haha

Or go gemini bedsheet tied back.