DIY: manual transmission and diff fluid change

[TheRuss]

Hmm, I've even just found this online, so it looks like you could even be running a equivalent fluid to me Dackel! However, it was on an eBay ad for Redline oils.

Fluid Designations
Manual Transmission:
MTF-LT-1 & MTF-LT-2 => D4ATF & MTL
MTF-LT-3 => D6ATF

[wolfe]

How does it shift since you changed the fluid, any improvement?

[TheRuss]

Hard to tell. Feels maybe a little smoother, but sometimes feels like maybe it takes more effort to actually slot it into the gear. I think the smoothness is because it's new fluid without all the wear metals in it.

Anyway, I'm just about to go out and change it again, using the same fluids. I bought twice as much fluid so that I could do a double change and get as much rubbish out of the transmission and diff as possible.

Once I've done this second change it should feel pretty good, but I'm not expecting any massive differences.

It seems like the only difference between the MTF-LT-2 and LT-3 is that the 2 is slightly thicker, which might be a good thing anyway. It's still not as thick as Redline MTL though, for reference.

[Ashock]

Just did my transmission and diff oil changes today on my 6MT 128i today. Replaced with Redline D4ATF and Redline 75W90 gear oil. I can definitely tell the difference with the Redline D4ATF makes! The shifter definitely feels smoother and slides into gear easily with a nice thunk.

[scintion]

Hello guys! I'm new here so consider me a rookie and treat me accordingly . Yesterday managed to do the regular maintenance of my beemer, as for some time i am the only one having regular contacts with it , yes, cause of the big love there is between us. Maintenance consisted in oil change, filters change and now i've done a differential oil change aswell. So far so good, car runs beautiful but... i've noticed oil leakage beneath the transmission oil pan.

Inspected with the lamp and the oil doesn't seem to come from the pan gasket, neither the draining bolt but from somewhere up, where the shifter lever gets into the transmission.
Now i didn't had the idea yesterday to unscrew the filling bolt to check the oil level with my finger as it's clear that the leakage is quite important but maybe some of these days after i get proper transmission oil (just in case) i would definitely do.

Is there a reason to be worried? Anyone has any idea?
Here are some pics:

[JimD]

You posted several pictures but it's still hard to see what is going on. Are you sure there is no oil on the back of the engine? I'm not sure it's coming from the transmission but perhaps that's because I can see what you see. In any event, if it's full, then you haven't lost much. If it isn't full, then you need to fill it. I used, and like, Red Line MTL but many people use something thinner - automatic transmission fluid. It doesn't take much to change and fill it.

If the oil starts on the engine I would not suspect the manual transmission. I would especially not suspect the manual if I could find fluid in the fill hole (i.e. it is basically full). Most cars with a few miles on them show signs of oil on the back of the engine and the transmission. It isn't necessarily leaks. It can be spills from an oil change.

The key parameter is whether your transmission is full of fluid. If it isn't you need to get it full and monitor it. If it is full, I would clean off the transmission and check it again in a month or so.

Jim

[scintion]

Nope, not from the engine, everything clean there, not the smallest leak. Oil comes from the sleeve that contacts the gear change lever to the transmission, and from speed all that bar is covered in oil. Underneath the car i've never seen any oil but on the plastic shield there was a big stain. I will order these days 2 liters of oil, hard to get Redline in Romania, but think i'll put some Fuchs Titan Sintofluid as it's approved and think ok for the 120000km on board. Will clean the oil with some gas and in a month or two will check again to see how bad it leaks. I guess to change that sleeve is a hard job and maybe wil leaks after that too. Weird though, on my old Golf with three times the mileage i had no leak at all.

[joeo]

Just a data point. Switched to Redline D6 ATF about 27,000 miles ago. Changed it again today at about 47k miles.

Old:


New:


Kinda surprised how dirty it got in 27k miles.

-Joe

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by joeo

Just a data point. Switched to Redline D6 ATF about 27,000 miles ago. Changed it again today at about 47k miles.

Kinda surprised how dirty it got in 27k miles.

-Joe

Thanks for your feedback Joe. Do you track your car? Do you think the D6 fluid offers enough protection for someone who tracks his car?

Im getting ready to install M3 tranmission mounts on my 135i this week-end, to help with sloppy shifts under load. Car has 54,000Kms (33,000Miles).

While Im under there, would be perfect timing for a manual transmission fluid change. I want the best protection, and smoothest shifting possible, hot or cold, track or street. Maybe all this criteria this is impossible to be covered by one type of fluid.

Thinking about these:

Pentonsin MTF-LT-5
Redline D4-ATF
Redline D6-ATF
Redline MTL

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I'm getting ready to install M3 transmission mounts on my 135i this week-end, to help with sloppy shifts under load. Car has 54,000Kms (33,000Miles).

The M3 rear suspension bushings will eliminate the "rubber band" feeling from the rear end - when you throw the car into the turns. They are really a nice upgrade and you will say to yourself THIS is the way the car should have come from BMW when new.

IF you have a sloppy shifter feel... I would take a look at your tranny mounts. There are two rubber bushings that sit in a alloy saddle under the rear of the trans end. #3 on this RealOEM.com link bellow...

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...06&hg=22&fg=10

Also for a sloppy shifter your plastic center bushing/bearing could be worn or one of the linkages could be ovalized over use/time.

Some guys have switched to e46M3 tranny mounts for a crisper shifter feel in HPDE.



As for tranny fluid... since you do hit the track attending HPDE's. I would say to use Redline D4. But maybe call Redline yourself and see what they think. I really do not think you can go wrong with either D4 or D6. I use D4 in my 135i with lots of high speed driving - that I do(~177 mph). Although it really doesn't get that hot over here in Germany like it does back in the states.


Dack

[joeo]

I do track the car, but I can't really say if the D6 offers enough protection or not. I suspect it does as the transmission isn't broken!
D6 is what Redline recommends, so that's why I choose to use it. I plan is to change it every couple years and keep tracking!

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The M3 rear suspension bushings will eliminate the "rubber band" feeling from the rear end ... If you have a sloppy shifter feel... I would take a look at your tranny mounts.

Thanks Dack. You misread me. Tranny mounts are what Im changing. I replaced my rear subrame bushings to M3 bushings last week-end actually. I did this on my own, and it was a PITA. Took it to the track since, and it really helps.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Also for a sloppy shifter your plastic center bushing/bearing could be worn or one of the linkages could be ovalized over use/time.

This only happens when downshifting at the track (under load). On the street, I have started noticing harder 1-2 and 2-1 shifts just recently, probably due to slight abuse at the track. Car has only 33,000Miles. I will keep your recommendations in mind, and may try to get this looked at by my dealership (under warranty). But will do the e46M3 tranny mounts and fluid replacement as a DIY first (picking up mounts at local dealer tomorrow evening) .

Originally Posted by Dackelone

As for tranny fluid... since you do hit the track attending HPDE's. I would say to use Redline D4. But maybe call Redline yourself and see what they think. I really do not think you can go wrong with either D4 or D6. I use D4 in my 135i with lots of high speed driving - that I do(~177 mph). Although it really doesn't get that hot over here in Germany like it does back in the states.

Im from Quebec Canada, and we get bad winter weather here (snow, freezing rain, sleet). My car sits in a heated garage, and will not be the primary winter car. Perhaps D4 or D6 would allow easier shifts during winter, and Redline MTL offer more protection for lapping season (May to October). Im sure you've heard before but Mike Miller from roundel magazine only recommends the use of BMW MTF or Redline MTL fluid in manual trannies. He says that in the winter, we need to get used to being gentle for the first few miles until the tranny warms up.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by joeo

I do track the car, but I can't really say if the D6 offers enough protection or not. I suspect it does as the transmission isn't broken!
D6 is what Redline recommends, so that's why I choose to use it. I plan is to change it every couple years and keep tracking!

How long ago have you swapped to D6? What made you decide to move to this fluid? Were you facing the symptoms of worn gear synchronizers (harder shifts)?

Your car never sees cold temperature like your northern neighbors do, so Im intrigued by your choice of a thinner fluid...
Also, the Redline site DOES NOT recommend D6 but D4 for a manual 2011 135i ...

[joeo]

Well isn't that interesting. Redline's site recommends D6 for my 2009, but D4 for your 2011. I swapped to D6 about 2 years ago, and 27k miles ago. Only reason to switch was to keep things healthy; was not having any issues.

-Joe

[TheRuss]

Not that interesting - the 2011 has a different gearbox to your 2009.

[dm135is]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

...Mike Miller from roundel magazine only recommends the use of BMW MTF or Redline MTL fluid in manual trannies. He says that in the winter, we need to get used to being gentle for the first few miles until the tranny warms up.

I've been reading Roundel since the '80s, respect Mike Miller's experience & recommendations, and wouldn't go against them without good reason. This is what I do, it's not a problem.

[ozimmer]

An old thread, but a goodie! I put Redline D4 into my 2010 125i MT yesterday, using the DIY on page 1 as an excellent guide. The original OEM gear oil that came out appeared better than I expected, with only a small quantity of very fine metallic specs - iPhone pic of the drain pan below after draining off most of the dirty fluid and a few squirts of fresh redline to flush remaining particles.

My only frustration was after taking care to drain the dirty oil with barely a missed drop, the filler pump I purchased specifically for this job spurted nice clean redline over my garage floor. After cursing and 5 mins playing around with the tubing and cap, I discovered a pin hole in the plastic moulding near the outlet. Thank you Supercheap
Of course being 5pm on a Saturday arvo, my options were either wait until sunday and return it or try to plug the hole on the pump myself. A small bead of quick setting 2 part Selleys filler handily left over from another job filler saved the day and gearbox refilled.

First impression is a perceptible improvement in shift quality... slightly less resistance engaging 3rd and 4th which were previously tight (sometimes), but each still goes home with a satisfying mechanical thunk.

Thanks to all those who provided input and gave me the confidence to try this DIY myself.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ozimmer

An old thread, but a goodie! I put Redline D4 into my 2010 125i MT yesterday, using the DIY on page 1 as an excellent guide...

Cool! Now you need to change out your diff fluid too.

[ozimmer]

thanks Dack
Changing the diff fluid is a lower priority as the car has only done ~16,000km in 3 years - the previous owner had it garaged 5+ days/ week as he commuted by public transport. Even so, the diff fluid is something I will do myself when due.
cheers, David

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Cool! Now you need to change out your diff fluid too.

I'm gearing up for that currently. Going to tap and add a drain bolt. Oil extractors suck in more ways than one.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I'm gearing up for that currently. Going to tap and add a drain bolt. Oil extractors suck in more ways than one.

I asked two mechanics if they could do this for me, and they refused claiming the cover could crack since it is cast iron...

[JimD]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I asked two mechanics if they could do this for me, and they refused claiming the cover could crack since it is cast iron...

I don't think the cover is cast iron, I think it is aluminum. The housing looks like it could be cast iron, however. If I was to put in a drain plug it would be on the cover. You could potentially also just pull the cover but it is tied into the suspension so it isn't easy to remove. But that is what I would do to install a plug, pull the cover, clean it and tap a plug into it.