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11-16-2007, 03:03 PM | #23 | |
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11-16-2007, 03:24 PM | #24 |
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Every new BMW has understeer built in, why should it be any different on this one? The M coupe/roadster is a perfect example of this....
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11-16-2007, 04:10 PM | #25 |
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Drives: 135i N54
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11-16-2007, 05:34 PM | #26 | |
Sideways just kicked in, yo!
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What you have to consider though is 50%+ of the cars sold are going to be to idiots who can't drive properly, and certainly have no experience in controlling a powerful RWD oversteering car.... every ditzy girl in LA is going to end up ass first in a ditch come the first rainfall if it isn't tweaked to understeer! If everything was perfect out of the box, modding wouldn't exist.
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11-16-2007, 07:12 PM | #27 |
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95% of the 135i drivers will never push the car to it's limits on a track or autocross course. We're getting some reports of understeer from people beating the snot out of these things on a track. How many of the understeer whiners have never been on a track before?
Even if you are planning on tracking it, why the hell would anybody run staggered runflats at either a track event or at an autocross? You would waste $1300 worth of street tires in a weekend at the track. Not too brilliant. This thing will be perfectly fine for a spirited canyon drive or twisty mountain road. Remember, people are saying it's not a LOT better than a 335i (which is damn high measuring stick as it is), not that it sucks. Seems like people are becoming more "glass half empty" types. |
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11-16-2007, 07:50 PM | #28 | |
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11-16-2007, 07:51 PM | #29 | |
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=119739
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11-17-2007, 01:42 AM | #30 |
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I think will all the electronic stability features and other assorted nannies to keep the lame drivers from spinning, it's not necessary to build in so much understeer...
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11-17-2007, 04:00 AM | #31 |
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I think at the last Audi driving experience the instructor said "I wish manufacturers didn't tune the suspension to understeer so much so as to let natural selection take its place in Los Angeles."
I literally LOL It's really unfair to compare the steering of a GT3 to a 135i's. Porsche has been building the same car decades over decades, fine tuning, improving and ultimately arriving at such a fine machine. I am not ready to graduate to such a car yet and like Jeremy Clarkson said "Porsche is unforgiving to fools and I am a fool. " =CRASH=
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11-17-2007, 05:28 AM | #32 | |
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As you say, maybe the tii will be the answer, but I was looking for more grunt than that will offer (if , as is likely, it comes with a four banger). What a shame - basiaclly my 1 series bubble has well and truly burst! |
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11-17-2007, 07:48 AM | #33 | |
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I'm still going to reserve my judgement for when I've actually had it on test drive for a few days. If everything else is what I expect and all it needs is a couple of hundred pounds worth of 25mm ARBs to sort the understeer (as I'd spec. it without runflats from the dealer regardless) then I've very high hopes for my tii.
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11-17-2007, 08:50 AM | #34 | |
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However, I think your point about decades of development is a bit off the mark. BMW is not exactly a newcomer to the sport sedan scene and I think most careful observers would argue that the steering feel has become worse with each new model, rather than better (the E30 M3 from 20 years ago is still revered as a much better driver's car than anything made 10 years ago or today). BMW has diluted the steering quality at every step of "evolution". Now, on the Porshe 911 (including variants like the GT3), the evolutionary path has not exactly been one of constant improvement either. There have been many mis-steps along the way. In fact, I much prefer the steering feel of the manual steering cars made prior to 1990 to the power steering versions (I like the manual steering on the 320i from 30 years ago too, although its ratio is a bit too slow and not quite as precise as it might've been). Unfortunately, once the 911 began to weigh over 3,000 lbs, manual steering became impractical (even though less than 40% of that weight sits on the front tires). Although Porsche's power steering system is one of the very best in the business with regard to precision, feel and feedback, it is still well lacking in those categories compared to what was used decades earlier. Fortunately, a car like the GT3 takes a good compromise solution like the standard power steering on the base 911 and improves upon that with solid spherical bearing strut mounts (instead of compliant rubber) and other adjustments to make it even better to steer. But, if both BMW and Porsche had built on what they had created decades ago with the sole aim of improving the driving experience at every evolutionary step (instead of adding more girth and luxury), we'd be in for quite a treat:wink:
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11-17-2007, 09:22 AM | #35 |
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I'm sure that it'll understeer rather less than the FWD and 4WD competition!
The 1series hatch gets very good writeups handling wise and the coupé will be better (more torsionally rigid and I suspect closer to 50/50 weight balance) |
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11-17-2007, 09:23 AM | #36 | |
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Any track reviews of 123 or 120d? |
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11-17-2007, 09:38 AM | #37 |
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Maybe, but maybe not. I think the Mitsubishi Evo has a pretty sophisticated computerized AWD system that keeps the car from understeering (by allocating power to each of the 4 wheels independently) and can actually be fairly easily drifted (oversteer) with a high degree of control.
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11-17-2007, 09:40 AM | #38 | |
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11-18-2007, 05:54 AM | #40 | |
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I'm not an Audi fan with the way they stick the engine ahead of the front wheels, tho' believe they have started to address this with the latest A4 onwards (tho' reviews say it's still very dull handling) [latest TT is meant to be good tho' - more so the FWD] |
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11-18-2007, 01:59 PM | #41 | |
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IF this was a 20K car, having to add extra parts to get a netural handling balance would make sense, but the 135 is a premium cost sports coupe fror heaven's sake. We should not have to pay more for add-ons and void the warranty to get what was promised. |
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11-18-2007, 02:07 PM | #42 | |
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11-18-2007, 02:48 PM | #43 | ||
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I agree you shouldn't have to, but their marketing dept's sticky fingers ruin it for everyone. Quote:
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11-18-2007, 09:06 PM | #44 |
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Understeer...I laugh at understeer!
A bit more negative camber up front with a bit larger sway bar in the rear - understeer solved for around $250-$300. And, I seriously doubt an aftermarket sway bar will void the warranty.
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