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      12-07-2009, 03:56 PM   #45
JimD
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A 400hp, 370 ft-lb of torque 3113lb (1415kg) M1 is, I believe, in the category of too good to be true. I looked up the current E92 M3 and it is 414hp, 295 ft-lbs to move 3704 lbs (coupe). With nearly 600 lbs less weight, a M1 with these specs would clearly be significantly faster than a M3. I don't think BMW will do that. If they did it would be a great vehicle. The M3 has about 8.95 lbs/hp and this example M1 would be 7.78 lbs/hp. With more torque.

A 3113 lb M1 would need about 350 hp to have the same weight to hp ratio as a e92. That would make it about equivalent in acceleration. So I am guessing that the M1 will have about what a chipped N54 would make as hp, a little under 350hp. So it will be a little slower than a M3. Just my guess.

I still think a 135 with weight reduction and a modest hp increase is a good specification for a M1. I also hope they would add M3 type suspension pieces and get the handling neutral. That would be a very fast car but I'm thinking that BMW will not target a M1 that is obviously faster than a M3 - because they would be afraid of losing too many sales of M3s. Other than more back seat space, I don't see why you get the M3.

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      12-07-2009, 04:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
A 400hp, 370 ft-lb of torque 3113lb (1415kg) M1 is, I believe, in the category of too good to be true. I looked up the current E92 M3 and it is 414hp, 295 ft-lbs to move 3704 lbs (coupe). With nearly 600 lbs less weight, a M1 with these specs would clearly be significantly faster than a M3. I don't think BMW will do that. If they did it would be a great vehicle. The M3 has about 8.95 lbs/hp and this example M1 would be 7.78 lbs/hp. With more torque.

A 3113 lb M1 would need about 350 hp to have the same weight to hp ratio as a e92. That would make it about equivalent in acceleration. So I am guessing that the M1 will have about what a chipped N54 would make as hp, a little under 350hp. So it will be a little slower than a M3. Just my guess.

I still think a 135 with weight reduction and a modest hp increase is a good specification for a M1. I also hope they would add M3 type suspension pieces and get the handling neutral. That would be a very fast car but I'm thinking that BMW will not target a M1 that is obviously faster than a M3 - because they would be afraid of losing too many sales of M3s. Other than more back seat space, I don't see why you get the M3.

Jim
This all assumes the M3 is going to stay at the current power levels. It also assumes that BMW won't allow the M1 to be the fastest car in the lineup, and I'm not sure that's the case. It only makes sense to have the smallest, lightest car be the fastest. People who can't live with that can compromse a little speed and step up to the larger car, just as it is with the M3 and M5 now. With the 3 Series getting so much larger, maybe it's time for a new top gun?
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      12-07-2009, 07:00 PM   #47
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M3 is generally faster than M5. I dont see why M1 cant be faster than M3..
PLus BMW will open doors for many to get into M cars without being millionaires.
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      12-07-2009, 08:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
M3 is generally faster than M5. I dont see why M1 cant be faster than M3..
PLus BMW will open doors for many to get into M cars without being millionaires.
If they want to be a volume producer like Toyota versus a high margin low volume company like Porsche.
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      12-07-2009, 11:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
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If they want to be a volume producer like Toyota versus a high margin low volume company like Porsche.
Well, since Porsche is on the verge of bankruptcy, perhaps they aren't the best model...
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      12-08-2009, 03:21 AM   #50
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Porsche is only on the verge of bankruptcy b/c they acquired VW. They were doing just fine by themselves...
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      12-08-2009, 05:01 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
M3 is generally faster than M5. I dont see why M1 cant be faster than M3..
PLus BMW will open doors for many to get into M cars without being millionaires.
Because it's the same market segment. An M3 is what every boy-racer aspires to and is willing to shell out $60k+ for. It's BMW's flagship performance car. Why on earth would they offer a better performing car for less money?
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      12-08-2009, 05:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
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[]...Why on earth would they offer a better performing car for less money?
Less room in the trunk for groceries.
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      12-08-2009, 06:17 AM   #53
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Don't hold your breath. IF one is ever produced it will be after the next gen M3 is out and priced well north of the uber-1.
I agree - the "M1" will become the M3 and the M3 will head for 911 territory - including both getting significant performance upgrades for the money (not that the M3 needs that much - but could do with a lighter, faster package overall).

So, for my money, it's a complete repositioning of the performance series - with the ridiculous X6M etc... cars playing in there too for soccer mommies and daddies.

Therefore...(think Cayman S versus 924/944(
M1 base: $55K with 400 hp (options mainly for luxury trim...not performance)
M3 base: $75K with 500 hp(with 2 or 3 'R' versions that will be exclusive and expeeensive)
M5 base: $90K+ with 600 hp
etc....

Porsche is the target.

The four cylinder may be cheaper, but not the way I'd prefer it built - the new M1 could become the club racer that you can take the kids to school in - there's nothing from Porsche currently that can say that.

Z
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      12-08-2009, 08:25 AM   #54
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I hope BMW is watching this thread. A lot of good ideas in here. In the end, it will probably come down to a select few that will make the final decision. And that few have probably been there for quite some time now.
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      12-08-2009, 10:19 AM   #55
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Speculating here...but as we all suspect...they will likely not name it the M1. That moniker is reserved for the original M1 supercar. However, perhaps given the end of the former Z4 / M Coupe platform, that they will transition the M Coupe Moniker to the 1 series?

Either way, I look forward to it being a wicked little street demon!!!!
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      12-08-2009, 09:26 PM   #56
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I say high 40s.
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