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      07-10-2007, 12:31 PM   #23
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Also remember that BMW is trying to link the 135i with the "spirit of the original M3" already. If BMW truly was going to make an M version of the 1er Coupe, I would have imagined that they would have saved that marketing chip for the M Version, not the 135i.
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      07-10-2007, 12:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidl View Post
I don't want to have my mind blown for a car that may be a few years out for me. I might cause me to do something stupid and buy it sooner than I plan to. Not like that would be too bad tho.:wink:
Haha, I feel you man. I would probably pay 40k right now to be able to hop in a 135i right now..uggh the madness
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      07-10-2007, 12:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jrsites View Post
In my mind, the fact that they are offering the M bits on the inside and the more aggressive looking aero package on the outside are two of the biggest indicators that there won't be an M1 any time soon.

How does one distinguish an M car from a standard one now? The M car has the M interior trim pieces and unique, more aggressive exterior styling. Bingo. Those two attributes are already in place on the 135i. If there was an M1 planned soon, they wouldn't blur the distinction between the 135i and the M1 by giving the 135i the M components on the inside and an already unique exterior styling.

If there is going to be an M1, that means the 1er will follow the 3er's family paradigm with a "base" model (128i/328i), "upscale" model (135i/335i), and a "performance" model (M1/M3). Now, look at the changes you get when you move from the "base" model to the "upscale" model in the 3 series. There are some very subtle changes in the exterior, mainly in the front facia, but they are difficult to distinguish. The interior is the same, save for different leather colors. So then, why would there be such a radical difference in the exterior and interior styling going from the "base" model 1 series to the "upscale" model 1 series? In other words, if there is to be an M1, why isn't the 135i nothing more than a 128i with a bigger engine, some subtle aero changes, and different paint/leather options?

In my estimation BMW threw the M interior pieces on the 135i, and gave it more aggressive styling because it IS the M1. In addition, this gives them the flexibility of bringing the 120d/123d (or possibly one of their smaller gasoline engines) over to slot in as the "base" model, which instantly makes everything fit nicely with the 128i being the "upscale" model and the 135i being the "performance" model.
I guess we SHALL see man. I love a good debate. Like I said before, I dont believe BMW would put down all their cards on this 1 series so fast. You can easily distinguish an "M1" from a 135i. Lets see, it could have a short-throw shifter, LSD, high-revving I-6, Flared Fenders, Lighter weight, different gear ratios, etc. Dont forget the 20% of the E92 M3 is shared with a 3 series coupe. I'll get back to you when the spy shots surface in the next couple months.
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      07-10-2007, 12:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
I'll get back to you when the spy shots surface in the next couple months.
:biggrin: You're on!

(I like a good debate, too)
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      07-10-2007, 01:10 PM   #27
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So you all know, I have a 335i with procede. Stock my car put down 283whp and 287wtorque on a mustang dyno, not even a dynojet! The engineering specs say the AT (which i have) loses 15% to the wheels (most would say that's conservative). Do the math. At the crank, I'm putting down 325.45 hp and 330 torque. Did I mention this is at over 4k feet in elevation (fyi, e46 m3's put down 255whp, same dyno, same elev). If you compare WHP and WT below 5k, the ol high revving Str8 6 has so much less poewr it's retarded.

By adding procede I went up to 320whp and 383wt, which is about 368crankhp and 440 crank torque. You want a M1? Those numbers are over 4k as well, you would see at least another 5whp at sea level.

Now they have a downpipe for 700.00 that's adding another 26whp! And you want a m1? With full exhaust you can bet on 30-40 whp. Can we say 360whp/380wtorque or 414 crank hp 440 crank torque/power to weight ratio of 7.97 lbs per hp (based on 3300lbs)/kill a e92 m3 without even trying? For just a 1300.00 procede/700.00 dp.

There are 335i's w/o dp just chip and catback putting down 360whp now, my numbers are conservative.

The only way I'd buy an m1 is if it had the turbo engine.

I tested my 335i with a g-tech, so take this with a grain of salt (accelorometers are known to be optimistic). Stock I did 0-60 best time of 4.87, 1/4 mile of 13.2. With the procede 0-60 in 4.23 and 1/4 in 12.63.

Many others have got 4.2-4.4 0-60's and I know of two so far who have done proceded 1/4's in 12.5 and 12.6, at the strip. This is in a car almost 300lbs heavier then our 135's will be. Bigger with more drag, etc.

The 135i is my M1. Any of you will definately be very, very happy with it.

Concering the overall performance of the 335i (which obviously the 135 must be at least a little better with less weight, m springs, better power to weight ratio, etc)
The 335i has lapped the "ring" within 1 second of the e46 m3. The handling will be there.

The ONLY part I would agree with the pro-m1ers on is the high revving engine, and the thrill/sound it brings. But it won't sound as good when a cheaply modded 135i blows by it.
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      07-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ito135i View Post
So you all know, I have a 335i with procede. Stock my car put down 283whp and 287wtorque on a mustang dyno, not even a dynojet! The engineering specs say the AT (which i have) loses 15% to the wheels (most would say that's conservative). Do the math. At the crank, I'm putting down 325.45 hp and 330 torque. Did I mention this is at over 4k feet in elevation (fyi, e46 m3's put down 255whp, same dyno, same elev). If you compare WHP and WT below 5k, the ol high revving Str8 6 has so much less poewr it's retarded.

By adding procede I went up to 320whp and 383wt, which is about 368crankhp and 440 crank torque. You want a M1? Those numbers are over 4k as well, you would see at least another 5whp at sea level.

Now they have a downpipe for 700.00 that's adding another 26whp! And you want a m1? With full exhaust you can bet on 30-40 whp. Can we say 360whp/380wtorque or 414 crank hp 440 crank torque/power to weight ratio of 7.97 lbs per hp (based on 3300lbs)/kill a e92 m3 without even trying? For just a 1300.00 procede/700.00 dp.

There are 335i's w/o dp just chip and catback putting down 360whp now, my numbers are conservative.

The only way I'd buy an m1 is if it had the turbo engine.

I tested my 335i with a g-tech, so take this with a grain of salt (accelorometers are known to be optimistic). Stock I did 0-60 best time of 4.87, 1/4 mile of 13.2. With the procede 0-60 in 4.23 and 1/4 in 12.63.

Many others have got 4.2-4.4 0-60's and I know of two so far who have done proceded 1/4's in 12.5 and 12.6, at the strip. This is in a car almost 300lbs heavier then our 135's will be. Bigger with more drag, etc.

The 135i is my M1. Any of you will definately be very, very happy with it.

Concering the overall performance of the 335i (which obviously the 135 must be at least a little better with less weight, m springs, better power to weight ratio, etc)
The 335i has lapped the "ring" within 1 second of the e46 m3. The handling will be there.

The ONLY part I would agree with the pro-m1ers on is the high revving engine, and the thrill/sound it brings. But it won't sound as good when a cheaply modded 135i blows by it.
Wow, this just shifted from a will there be an M1 to a "why would u buy an m1" haha. Oh boy, I'll keep this one kinda short. Car companies dont make cars at the higher end of the spectrum b/c tuners can do amazing things with the bottom to middle end. Look at a the C6--> Z06 Look at the 911 Turbo--> GT2. No matter how fast you make your 135i, it wouldnt be an M car. It wouldnt feel like an M car. I am going to buy a 135i. When the opportunity for an M1 arises, I will buy one!!!
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      07-10-2007, 01:32 PM   #29
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Nope, no M1... it would be a sin to reuse that name...

But I can see a CSL model with LSD and clubracerlike options...
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      07-10-2007, 01:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
No matter how fast you make your 135i, it wouldnt be an M car. It wouldnt feel like an M car. I am going to buy a 135i. When the opportunity for an M1 arises, I will buy one!!!
That's a pretty bold statement. I would admit that it would be easier to simply buy an M1 but Im quite sure that for the same money you could make a 135i faster and better to handle than an "M1". Sure it wouldnt "be an M car." But that's just a badge. Who really cares about the badge?
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      07-10-2007, 01:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMonster View Post
Nope, no M1... it would be a sin to reuse that name...
exactly, it already exists and it was a "super car" not entry an entry level series.


the 135i is the "M" version and it's my next vehicle <period>
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      07-10-2007, 02:25 PM   #32
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As I've said before, it will be sacrilege to use the "M1" name if they produce an M car out of the 1-series.
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      07-10-2007, 02:36 PM   #33
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135i vs 1M ( or M1 for those who prefer that ). Granted you can get the 135i to go faster with a flash and better flow and for the majority of people that's perfect. But others like a high reving engine with a light and balanced platform that would be a dream to drive on the track. For me it's not about getting there faster but how much fun it is and that for me is a high reving engine, LSD and light package. So gimme a 130 si with 285HP and LSD until the 1M comes out!

So you can get your 135 + chip + exhaust.
I'll get my 1M.

And we can all enjoy a track day together where I try to beat ya!
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      07-10-2007, 03:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thp View Post
135i vs 1M ( or M1 for those who prefer that ). Granted you can get the 135i to go faster with a flash and better flow and for the majority of people that's perfect. But others like a high reving engine with a light and balanced platform that would be a dream to drive on the track. For me it's not about getting there faster but how much fun it is and that for me is a high reving engine, LSD and light package. So gimme a 130 si with 285HP and LSD until the 1M comes out!

So you can get your 135 + chip + exhaust.
I'll get my 1M.

And we can all enjoy a track day together where I try to beat ya!
I think you guys are missing the part about handling. Look up any track times on the 335i vs e46 m3 and it is within 1-2 seconds on the Ring where the fastest cars do it around 8 minutes, and within a second on other proven tracks. Get it? And that's against the closest comparable hp/weight ratio "M" car.

A 135i is around 300 lbs lighter, has six piston rotors up front where a 335i has 2, they are fixed instead of floating on a 335i, and the 135i get's the m-springs, which I believe are a bit stiffer then the 335i sport springs.

My belief is that a 330 hp str8 six M1 would be so close to a 135i in performance, in straight lines and track times, it would be negligible.

But if you put 2k into the 135i it would dominate a 330 hp m1. Even if the brakes were slightly better (135i are already six piston so maybe a m1 would be cross drilled) and the suspension was slightly better, on a track. And in a straight line wouldn't be even close. Daily driving the massive amount of low end torque would be better. I can see the high revability point though. That's fun stuff.

I understand most people don't buy a car to tune it. They buy it the way it is. But I don't think it's going to far to assume that members of this forum can understand the benefit of saving thousands and having a 2k in performance parts which would be enough to be a m1 hands down.

Now, that being said, if they stuff the lighter M3 v8 into a M1,, I'm SOLD.
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      07-10-2007, 03:43 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thp View Post
So gimme a 130 si with 285HP ...
THAT'S exactly what I would've liked to see. I wish the US 1er family consisted of the 128i and 135i using the same N52 engine tuned to, say, 200hp in the 128i and 250hp in the 135i. THEN you've got a natural slot to put a 1M (NOT an M1) with the N54 Bi-turbo that comes from the factory with the equivalent of the Proceed mod so that it is producing more power than it does in the 335i.

But I've got my own selfish reasons for that. As I wrote in a different post, I'm a "less is more, simpler is better" kind of guy. I'm looking for a great handling car that I can toss around in the twisties. Raw power isn't at the top of my priority list. I want enough torque to be able to enjoy powering out of a corner, but I don't car about winning the stoplight wars. In line with my "simpler is better" attitude, I'm hesitant to buy the 135i because of some of the problems 335i owners have experienced with it. I'm not the typical "lease and get a new car every four years" BMW owner. I plan to keep this car for a long time. So I want something that won't drain my pocketbook once it's out of warranty. And I see big dollar signs in the maintenance department with the N54 once it's out of warranty.

But having said all of that, it would be fun to have more than 230 HP in my 1er. And that's why I wish they left themselves room for a 1M, and their "middle" car was a normally-aspirated straight six that produced in that 250hp to 275hp range.
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      07-10-2007, 03:51 PM   #36
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the notion that they wouldnt reuse the M1 moniker and the impressive output of the 135i are the best indicators that there will not be an M version of the 1 series.

what Scott originally said is that the 135 will be available for a few years as a limited production and then will be replaced with an M. if there is anything you can say for certain about heritage it is that this car will NOT be turbocharged. the 135 is a hefty little guy. if BMWs intention is to revive the spirit of the e30 M3 it makes perfect sense to do so with an M version that focuses intensely on weight reduction and uses an updated version of the e46 powerplant (lighter, higher output - enough screaming top-end hp to slightly better what the 135 was in a 0-60 despite definite shortcomings in torque figures). THAT would be the revamping of the e30 spirit which they seem to be touting all over the place. my only concern is if one could do so without raising the price (mostly from weight reduction efforts) so much that it wouldnt just be worth it for too many customers to just get the M3/V8

and for the record, the 135 has got to be the slightly upscale competition
for the sti/evo. and the "M1" needs to be just outside of that league.
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      07-10-2007, 04:12 PM   #37
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I'd pay 55k to have a m1 with the v8, yum.
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      07-10-2007, 06:22 PM   #38
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I have to say, it would take a LOT from an "M1" to make me consider that over the 135i. I understand the goals of the M program...(and I love them!)
...but all that turbo torque is where it is at for me. I love the mid-range punch, and I love that more power is easy to find.

But, hey - i hope they build it anyway! always more fun!
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      07-10-2007, 06:24 PM   #39
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Have you seen how cramped the 135i engine bay is? There isn't enough room in there for an after market sway bar let alone a larger displacement naturally aspirated M engine. Also, like everyone else has said: the M1 is a mid-engine super car.
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      07-10-2007, 07:35 PM   #40
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Oh boy. Just for laughs, when I get my 135i, I'll purchase an M badge and place it in front of the 135i emblem and remove the "i" and add a csi emblem after the 135.
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      07-10-2007, 08:39 PM   #41
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that would be funny. Would it be so wrong to replace the 135i with just an ///M? I don't know, but I bet it would get people riled up!

I keep wanting to buy a "Super Duty" emblem for my MINI....

Quote:
Originally Posted by menotakoala View Post
Oh boy. Just for laughs, when I get my 135i, I'll purchase an M badge and place it in front of the 135i emblem and remove the "i" and add a csi emblem after the 135.
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      07-11-2007, 03:29 AM   #42
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BMW M1


BMW is about to do to the 1-series what it did to the 3-series years ago: stretch it every which way, filling existing niches and creating new, exciting ones too - headed by a red-hot M version. The M1 badge would be resurrected on a very different beast to the landmark 1970s supercar though; this time it'll feature on the rump of the new 1-series coupe, standard versions of which will arrive next year.

To give the 1-series a badly needed image boost, BMW is reconsidering the M1. This project was originally scheduled to arrive at this year's Detroit Motor Show back in January. Under Ulrich Bruhnke, who recently left the company, the M division had proposed four different M1 spin-offs: a coupe, a lightweight GTR, a cabriolet and the E82 M1 touring. The latter model died altogether, the GTR was deemed too expensive despite its motorsport potential, and the fate of the drop-top was of course linked to that of the coupe. Both have now been confirmed.

Next year, BMW will launch the regular two-door versions of the 1-series. Aimed with high hopes at the North American market are the coupe and convertible which look a touch more elegant than the rather ungainly hatchbacks, despite the same oversize headlamps, sagging fat-belly cutline along the door sills and that squashed tail end.

More intriguing than the design are the new engines earmarked for the entry-level BMs. Economical and kind to the environment, BMW is readying three new 2.0-litre diesels rated at 143, 177 and 204bhp. Also waiting in the wings are a direct-injection petrol 170bhp 2.0-litre four and a 272bhp 3.0-litre six.

Next in the evolution process is turbocharging for both units. In addition to the soft-charge application as seen in the 306bhp 335i, work is in progress on a high-pressure cascade charge concept, which should satisfy the most power-hungry customers.

CAR Online has the latest exclusive lowdown on the future of the whole 1-series family with artist's impressions of the M1.

Words: Georg Kacher

Images: Motor Forecast (two artist's impressions)


1 Series

By Matt Davis

Issue 20, May 2007

North America gets this two-door version of the small BMW premium hatch at the start of 2008. Then come the notchback and convertible, and dogs and cats sleeping together. We've cornered various execs over the last year and demanded that they re-re-reconsider not bringing the new 1-series to North America. First off the thing is simply a great drive with superior packaging, sitting on a 3-series chassis but without the 3-series’ “suburban orthodontist” baggage. And then we drove the 130i M Sport four-door last year and nearly turned purple from our indignation over being excluded as a viable market.

Yet, once again, we find ourselves played for fools. BMW was planning this all along and now it will need to play makeup with us. Because—as we reported in our sensational, up-to-the-minute blog on January 17—the 130i and a future 135i are on North American roads shortly after the January 2008 North American International Auto Show. We can now lower our fists and get behind this decision.

Since its introduction in mid-2004, the 1-series has sold more than 350,000 units worldwide. (In fact, it’s becoming impossible to call BMW a niche manufacturer anymore, with total sales approaching 1.5 million vehicles per annum.) This means the 1-series has paid its way and earned a really nice midlife updo. One BMW product planner put it this way: “We’ve improved the packaging and performance on the 1 to the point where it really needs to continue selling at the current pace just in order to pay for its development.” This must be good, we say to ourselves.
Boy, is it ever. A primary alteration to be enjoyed by all is the decidedly better interior. As we said, we’ve driven the various 1-series models available in Europe, and the only consistent criticism has been the choice of plastics and cloths. Kiss that goodbye, as this improved 1 goes the way of the plush and stylish new 5-series we also drove at this launch event.

The exterior scooches are a major factor in this case, starting off with the stripping away of the two rear doors. In a fascinating decision that meets our approval, BMW will bring only the two-door version of this body style to North America. Four doors will be covered by the subsequent notchback (definitely destined to earn the title “Baby Bimmer”), while a convertible hearkening back to the original 1-series concept, the CS1 from the 2002 Geneva Motor Show, will quickly follow.

On the model you see here, exterior design leader Kevin Rice pointed out how the rear half of the car can now adopt a more sporting line for the windows and quarter-panels. Both the head- and taillights get a fresh shape, the tail units sporting LED accents, while the headlights get the larger “corona” xenon units seen on costlier BMWs. We can’t wait for the M Sport edition—unveiled at the Geneva show—to be delivered to the States.

We only had available the 120i with reengineered 2.0-liter four-cylinder for our drive, but we weren’t lacking. This is the power unit that, once BMW gets all its tech ducks in a row, will adopt a turbocharger and then finally come our way from Europe. As is, the High Precision Injection 168-horsepower four with several peripheral changes to enhance its efficiency (part of BMW’s Efficient Dynamics program) took us to 62 miles per hour from a stop in 7.8 seconds using the standard six-speed manual. The 130i, which Americans and Canadians will get next year, does the same in just 6.1 seconds, and Croesus and Mary only know what a 135i might be capable of.

Besides the revving fun and solid handling from this great chassis, we even managed (admittedly while driving like a cautious EPA Zen master) 38 miles per gallon over a long stretch of coastal two-lane. On seventeen-inch wheels, the drive on less-miserly sections and through undulating curves was only one step shy of an M Sport package. The new steering mechanism is modulated electronically and the hydraulics are gone, but it still has the responsiveness and weight of a BMW hydraulic setup. To add to our love for this ride, all noise via tires, engine, and wind is muted just like in daddy’s car, plus the sport seats are just right for this level of high everyday capability.

So, BMW is finally banking on the premium semi-compact market taking off in North America. Granted, some of this has to do with that $80-perbarrel oil price of 2006, which is now steady at around $60. And a 130i (or will they need to name it a 128i to mirror the 3-series’ naming?) will not be cheap at a projected $30,000 starting price. But, no matter these concerns from the Peanut Gallery, once you try the 1-series, you’re gonna want it.
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      07-11-2007, 11:15 AM   #43
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that would be funny. Would it be so wrong to replace the 135i with just an ///M? I don't know, but I bet it would get people riled up!
I think I probably would [replace the badges with an M badge]. At the very least, it cleans up the rear by replacing all of that badging with one simple badge. Plus, with all the M Sport treatment, you could at least justify that the M badge is there for something...
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      07-11-2007, 11:27 AM   #44
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the 130i M sport 4-door theyre talking about is the hatch/5-door right? was there a 1 series sedan at any point? even concept?
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