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      10-27-2008, 09:07 PM   #1
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why not M1?

I know the engine is the same as the 335i... but with the m suspension and the sports package I wonder what drove them to name this car the 135i over naming it a new M1??(i mean it is ALMOST as fast!)

Just a thought...:biggrin:
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      10-27-2008, 09:27 PM   #2
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no limited slip, modified/upgraded suspension, and few other things. Also the M1 moniker is legendary and it better be one hell of a car to use that name again.
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      10-27-2008, 10:18 PM   #3
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The race edition of the M1 had well over 400hp. It would take a twin turbo inline 4 producing 400hp+ 425+torque, M tuned suspension, LSD, Power steering as an option, carbon fiber roof + accents, flared fenders for massive tires and one hell of a price tag. That would be the M1 I want.
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saw you comment and i'd lay on my bed and cry, then i put some Yulio Iglesias music, no more problem.


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      10-27-2008, 10:30 PM   #4
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I WILL by the performance variant of the 135i. Many believe it will not come. I've waited too long and it will be damn near impossible for BMW to screw it up.
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      10-27-2008, 10:51 PM   #5
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I could be wrong but aren't the engines in M cars exclusive to M cars only?

I know the 135i is a great car with a great engine but it shares the same N54 engine with the 335i, 5 series, X6 and soon to be 7 series respectively.

The 135i has simply surpassed everyone's expectations due to its small nimble package and has an 'M like driving experience' in my opinion.

But nonetheless, it isn't an M car. If it was we would have an M badge on the back and be paying twice as much.
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      10-28-2008, 01:47 AM   #6
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This is why not:
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      10-28-2008, 02:00 AM   #7
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Such a beautiful site...
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saw you comment and i'd lay on my bed and cry, then i put some Yulio Iglesias music, no more problem.


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      10-28-2008, 02:25 AM   #8
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Calling the 135 an M1 would cause BMW to appear as ridiculously transparent, desperate, marketing-whores. Heck, they tried comparing the 1-Series to the 2002, ran that lame nonsense up the flagpole. Please...

Last I've heard, BMW is actually planning to build the M1 again, albeit a 21st Century iteration. As reported in the October 08' Roundel, BMW's Norbert Reithofer has announced there will be no 1-Series based M1, also reported in the same issue, a tii program will be made available for the 1-Series, possibly the 3-Series and the X1 as well.
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      10-28-2008, 04:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinzftw View Post
Such a beautiful site...
Sight or this site? :wink:

M1 is legendary and I too hope BMW build another.

FWIW I see no reason why BMW could not have created a M135i or even a 135i (as they did with the M635CSi).

LSD, 360bhp, aggressive M suspension, non-RFT's, stronger rear sway bar, bucket seats, Carbon fibre roof, Performance exhaust as standard.... PERFECT!!
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      10-28-2008, 04:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moff View Post
FWIW I see no reason why BMW could not have created a M135i or even a 135i (as they did with the M635CSi).

LSD, 360bhp, aggressive M suspension, non-RFT's, stronger rear sway bar, bucket seats, Carbon fibre roof, Performance exhaust as standard.... PERFECT!!
They did...it's called a M3, but it has over 400 hp. ;-)

If BMW did what you wanted, it would cost more than the new M3 as demand/production would be so low. Look to the E46 M3 CSL as an example. They strip it and charge $20K more. Sure they added a few nice touches too, like quickening the steering and giving you race tires. And if the E46 M3 CSL and 320si are any indication, the States wouldn't get it (not that you would care).
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      10-28-2008, 05:24 AM   #11
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I disagree with the costs, but I do agree that demand would be seriously low, as it is with the 135i across Europe.

Remove the suspension changes, and there is only about an additional 5k Euro's extra - I would pay it, but many others wouldn't.

The same arguement you used could be levelled at BMW's decision to produce with Z4M Coupe which is an expensive niche model with very low sales.
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      10-28-2008, 06:33 AM   #12
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not to mention all m cars are naturally aspirated, so really there can be no M1 cause we are all turbo'd
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      10-28-2008, 06:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrutled View Post
not to mention all m cars are naturally aspirated, so really there can be no M1 cause we are all turbo'd
IMO that will change.

M cars will get greener, less capacity and more FI.
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      10-28-2008, 06:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moff View Post
I disagree with the costs, but I do agree that demand would be seriously low, as it is with the 135i across Europe.
The cost of manufacturing wouldn't be much more, but that wouldn't stop BMW from putting a premium on the price tag for a model that many dealers wouldn't even receive. Seems BMW's Performance Parts concept is to help the consumer make their own higher performing car, so BMW doesn't have to do it for you (far less risk for BMW and BMW dealers). Unfortunately, the prices of their parts are prohibitively expensive, especially when compared to other after-market companies making often times better products.
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      10-28-2008, 09:10 AM   #15
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The Tii was the only option in the cards for a premium 1, but they passed on the idea. I'm sure they think a true M 1-series car would be something of an oxymoron - an entry level super car? It would either be too expensive to make sense or it would canabalize M3 sales. Still, if the original M1 did not exist, I bet there would have been a temptation within BMW to make a couple of tweaks and just call the 135i an M1. That moniker might have earned a couple grand extra per car.
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      10-28-2008, 09:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrutled View Post
not to mention all m cars are naturally aspirated, so really there can be no M1 cause we are all turbo'd
i believe original M1 was a turbocharged car, i suppose this makes the "1" designation appropriate
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      10-28-2008, 11:52 AM   #17
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The original M1 was not turbocharged, it had a naturally aspirated straight six that eventually found its way into the E28 M5 and M6. The M1 was inspired by a concept called the Turbo Coupe, yet the production car was never turbocharged.

Personally, the current 1er would not make a good M car. I've driven plenty of Euro 1ers and own a 135i and it just doesn't have the handling at the limit to be a proper M car. Understeer is too heavy and it would take more than a trip to the M Group to fix that. I'm fine with it as a relatively fast, composed and comfortable daily driver, I think that trying to create a high power version would disapoint that balance.

If anything, the direction of the tii, with a high strung, but lower output four cylinder would fit the nature of the car more. It wouldn't sell in the US since most drivers are too enamored with torque, but it would elevate the 1er in the eyes of Europeans.

Take all this with a huge grain of salt, I don't like the direction that the E9x and E6x M cars have gone, and I do think there's more than enough room for BMW to build an entry level M Car that returns the brand to a fun to drive and enjoyable experience, I'm just not convinced that this platform is the correct answer to that goal.
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      10-28-2008, 01:55 PM   #18
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i wouldnt expect an M 1-series. i would expect the "tii" moniker to live up to what you're proposing but within the mindset of the future of automotive technology green-ifying. the next generation one ("F20") should be able to compensate for what Red Bread pointed out, and thus provide the oppurtunity for serious efficient motorsport.

oldie but a goodie
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...ontent-block=0

Quote:
BMW tii models are go

By Georg Kacher

02 April 2008 17:06
BMW chief Norbert Reithofer has confirmed to CAR Online that a range of tii performance options will be launched soon on the company's smaller models. He has finally ruled out a rumoured M1 version of the 1-series and said the tii spec would be the most performance-oriented model, claiming the the twin-turbo 135i was quite fast enough (it does 0-62mph in 5.3sec, after all).

The tii concept shown at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show points accurately to the approach BMW is developing: performance kits for the 1-series coupe and hatchback, an aero package, carbonfibre details, fatter wheels and tyres, sports seats and instruments. There's even talk of a new M-style steering wheel with integrated LED rev counter.

A tii for the masses

BMW is the past master at offering huge choice in spec and trim; subtle nuance of alloy wheel size here, and Sport spec there is the stuff of workplace car park folklore. The tii spec will slot above today's M sport spec in the multi-faceted pecking order.

However, BMW plans for the tii models to be proper performance cars in the longer run. For instance, the next-gen 1-series, dubbed F20 and due in late 2011, will offer a tii version with a downsized twin-turbo four-cylinder petrol engine and a radically lighter body and chassis, we hear.
Sincerely,
"Efficient Dynamics" biggest fan


edit: all that being said - i bet we never see it on US shores
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      10-28-2008, 01:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Personally, the current 1er would not make a good M car. I've driven plenty of Euro 1ers and own a 135i and it just doesn't have the handling at the limit to be a proper M car. Understeer is too heavy and it would take more than a trip to the M Group to fix that.
I have to disagree - understeer is simply a function of various contributing elements: track width, tire width, angles, shocks/springs, sway bars etc.

There is absolutely nothing inherent in the 1 series chassis that promotes understeer - the suspension is practically the same as in the 3 series (which made a fine base for the M3 BTW) - just that the sways and tires were engineered to promote extra understeer. And the reason for that IMO is because the shorter wheelbase would make it more difficult to correct oversteer compared to the 3 series.

I think the 1 would make a cracking M - in fact it would have the potential to embarras and steal sales from the M3, which I think is the main reason why we won't see one.
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      10-28-2008, 01:59 PM   #20
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The concept M1 http://www.supercars.net/cars/4134.html
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      10-28-2008, 02:01 PM   #21
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      10-28-2008, 02:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I think the 1 would make a cracking M - in fact it would have the potential to embarras and steal sales from the M3, which I think is the main reason why we won't see one.
I think there's as much truth to this is the reasons why it would be hard to quell the current understeer. I'm certainly not opposed to the idea, but I also agree that it's more likely to wait until the next gen 1er and not occur on this platform.

You're also right that the silly tire stagger promotes a lot of the current understeer, but it would be hard to fix that without seriously flaring the front fenders (which would look great) and retuning shocks, springs, sway bars, etc. All of this would most likely cost more than the relatively slim margins they're making on this low volume car would justify.

Of course they've made the mistake of building an M Coupe twice now, and selling very, very few of them both times, so weirder things could happen.

One last thing, but the steering, while nicely isolated, is also extremely numb when compared to my M Coupe, or the E36, E46, E39 and Z4 M cars I've driven. I suppose it's largely due to the runflats, but I'd hope that they'd spend some money there too, if they were indeed going to build an M or tii version. To be fair, I haven't driven an E9x M3 to see if they lack steering feel as well.
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