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      01-07-2010, 10:15 PM   #23
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M3 owners will rain down on M1.. Hate it publicly on all forums..
But deep down inside they will know that M1 is lighter, will handle better and will probably match it everywhere else..
M5 owners dont cross shop with M3 and I dont expect M3 owners to cross shop with M1..
I see M3 as a great GT, more of a status symbol for the influent and rich, while M1 will be more of a future legend for true car enthusiasts.
Clarkson called BMW 135 the best BMW in many years.. M1 will bring that quotient yet more.
Cars been getting too big and heavy everywhere.. It's about time we downsize and create a super small car..

[QUOTE=Robert;6477358]Can of worms, here we go! The new M car is lighter, similar weight to hp ratio, and affordable. Which will take the throne as the new BMW performance king? How will M3 owners receive the new M1? Speculate away and we will revisit to see who's the most insightful when the car is released.[/QUOT
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      01-07-2010, 10:17 PM   #24
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Lots of torque can be addicting too. Especialy in the low rev range..
I prefer torque to hp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
probably trade-in my M3 for the new M1 if it's so good....although the inline six turbo engine would be hard to digest after a screaming V8.
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      01-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #25
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Some numbers from the BMW NA website:

Current M3 coupe weighs 3704 lbs, has 414hp and 295 ft lbs torque, starts at $58,400, and is rated to get to 60mph in 4.7sec if manual and 4.5 sec if DCT.

Current 135 (coupe) weighs 3373 lbs, has 300hp and 300 ft lbs of torque, starts at $36,055 and is rated to get to 60 mph in 5.1 sec (manual).

I also calculated the final gear ratio in first gear at 15.63 to one for the M3 (manual) and 12.5 to one for the 135 (manual) (this is the product of the rear end ratio times the gearing of first gear). Weight to hp I calculated as 8.95 lbs/hp for the M3 and 11.24 lbs/hp for the 135. To get to the same weight to hp as the M3, the 135 would need 377 hp.

BMW can make the M1 accelerate quicker or slower than the M3 depending on where the final hp, weight, and gear ratios end up. The M3 is quicker today because it has high hp for its weight but also because it is geared to get into the power band more quickly in first gear. My guess is the M1 will have a little higher 0-60 time than the M3. But I think BMW could easily make it come out the other way.

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      01-08-2010, 03:35 PM   #26
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Theres no point for the M3 anymore, a few of the M3 owers will switch over to the "M1" since it will be a more serious drivers car than the overweight M3. I think in the average age of the M3 in the future will rise to 40+
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      01-08-2010, 03:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaglacs View Post
I think in the average age of the M3 in the future will rise to 40+

I'd be willing to bet that it's already well over that right now.
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      01-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #28
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this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaglacs View Post
Theres no point for the M3 anymore, a few of the M3 owers will switch over to the "M1" since it will be a more serious drivers car than the overweight M3. I think in the average age of the M3 in the future will rise to 40+
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      01-08-2010, 03:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
I'd be willing to bet that it's already well over that right now.
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      01-08-2010, 04:09 PM   #30
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I feel much love here for the M3. I'm puzzled that the M3 is considered to be the poser's car by some, even well before we know the details on the M1.


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south
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      01-08-2010, 04:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
I'd be willing to bet that it's already well over that right now.
I don't want to jack the thread on age, but what i meant was that the average would rise

I think the M3 will become what the X5M and X6M are, great people haulers, but not what it used to be...the lineage of the M1 would be the e46 M3, e36 m3 and the e30 M3..
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      01-08-2010, 04:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I feel much love here for the M3. I'm puzzled that the M3 is considered to be the poser's car by some, even well before we know the details on the M1.


Best regards,
south

I don't think it's considered a "poser's car" here, even though I think most people feel there are certainly a significant percentage of owners that fit that description.

The M3 has just gotten large and heavy, and a lot of us are much more interested in something smaller and lighter. Weight is the enemy.
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      01-08-2010, 04:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niif View Post
I think one M series will have to be dropped for the sake of marketing.

M1, M3 , M5, or M6...
don't forget the X5M and X6M.

each car fits a certain segment and price range. if they drop the M3 the4n they have (unoptioned):

50,000 M1 (est)
[gaping price hole between m1 and m5]
85,000 M5
85,000 X5M
89,000 X6M
102,000 M6

the M3 comes in at 56 according to BMWUSA but all the ones i've seen are around 65-70 which fits perfectly between the M1 and the M5.

I mean why buy any of them? you want a sport sedan? (m3 sedan) maybe one a little bit bigger with more power (M5).

I can tell you that I can't afford to cross shop the entire M series line.
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      01-08-2010, 04:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
I don't think it's considered a "poser's car" here, even though I think most people feel there are certainly a significant percentage of owners that fit that description.

The M3 has just gotten large and heavy, and a lot of us are much more interested in something smaller and lighter. Weight is the enemy.
That makes perfect sense. I'm curious to see the engine characteristics of the M1 engine, though. I have no doubt that BMW would be able to make an FI engine as responsive as possible. I'm just not sure if they have the time, the will and the means to modify the N55 that much for the M1. Still, I hope they prove me wrong.


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south
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      01-08-2010, 04:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaglacs View Post
Theres no point for the M3 anymore
I disagree. Some people still want a bigger, more grand touring oriented performance vehicle. Now the M6 on the other hand, I'm not sure is needed anymore.
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      01-08-2010, 05:50 PM   #36
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My classmate really likes the 6 series and he's in the fashion apparel industry. Just to show there's always a market. I think the M1 will segment the market better and may introduce more sales with a lower price point otherwise cannibalization will occur on existing M3 sales.
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      01-08-2010, 06:01 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
That makes perfect sense. I'm curious to see the engine characteristics of the M1 engine, though. I have no doubt that BMW would be able to make an FI engine as responsive as possible. I'm just not sure if they have the time, the will and the means to modify the N55 that much for the M1. Still, I hope they prove me wrong.


Best regards,
south

I will admit that I'm more of a fan of NA engines now than I've ever been. The N54 is good, and you can't beat the tuneability/dollar ratio you get from turbocharged engines, but I do miss the instant throttle response of the GTO I had before, not to mention the utter simplicity of them.

I think the lag is something that's never really going to completely go away. The turbo is always going to have some spool time no matter what, it's just a matter of how noticeable it is to the driver. Let's hope it's minimal in this new M if that's the route they're going to go.
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      01-08-2010, 06:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I feel much love here for the M3. I'm puzzled that the M3 is considered to be the poser's car by some, even well before we know the details on the M1.


Best regards,
south
If there is such as conception that M3 is poser's choice, it may rooted from current m3 owner's sentiment towards 1 series and the types of modification done on the M3. To clarify, a example response from m3 camp on 1 series is 1 series is butt ugly. I will never own one because it's butt ugly. These statements show the value system of m3 owners, good or bad I am not passing judgment. Also I have noticed most modification involves fitting 19-20" deep dish wheels and accordingly adjust suspension to reduce the gap between wheel and car regardless the effects on performance. Taking it from a completely different angle it may be the m3 is already so well tuned there's really not much left besides cosmetic changes.

I foresee the rivalry to expand with the new M1. Segmenting the market further as I have mentioned above.
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      01-08-2010, 06:04 PM   #39
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I have an M3 E90 i only have it because of the 8400 rpm engine. It s a piece of art. But for me the 3 series has grown to much. It s to big and heavy. I would like a smaller ///M1 love it. Only concern is the engine. If it s turbo and if does not have the throttle response like my M3 E90 and CSL i quess my E90 M3 and CSL stays a bit longer.
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      01-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #40
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I hope the HPFP thing disappears b/c it would be tragic
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      01-08-2010, 07:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
If there is such as conception that M3 is poser's choice, it may rooted from current m3 owner's sentiment towards 1 series and the types of modification done on the M3. To clarify, a example response from m3 camp on 1 series is 1 series is butt ugly. I will never own one because it's butt ugly. These statements show the value system of m3 owners, good or bad I am not passing judgment. Also I have noticed most modification involves fitting 19-20" deep dish wheels and accordingly adjust suspension to reduce the gap between wheel and car regardless the effects on performance. Taking it from a completely different angle it may be the m3 is already so well tuned there's really not much left besides cosmetic changes.

I foresee the rivalry to expand with the new M1. Segmenting the market further as I have mentioned above.
Unfortunately, I can't really deny that such comments or sentiments are voiced. Though, I think we can't make generalisations based on some people's comments. There's no such thing as the value system of M3 owners, much less so the one you described. There are people who like to place cheap shots on the 1, there are people who like to bling out their cars, but that's not the rule. I can only judge from the threads at m3post, but it doesn't seem to me like the 20" chrome wheel poser running on an drop just for cosmetical reason is the prevalent owner.

Lastly, I think it's kinda sad that some people seem ruin the perception of all owners. I know that I don't want to be associated with the cocky and snotty M3 driver considering himself something better just for driving this car and I'm surely not alone. I'm convinced it's pretty much the same the other way round.


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south
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      01-09-2010, 12:07 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Can of worms, here we go! The new M car is lighter, similar weight to hp ratio, and affordable. Which will take the throne as the new BMW performance king? How will M3 owners receive the new M1? Speculate away and we will revisit to see who's the most insightful when the car is released.
It doesn't matter... each serve their segment. Neither are meant to compete with each other and both have different characteristics. All cars have a 0~60 time.. it means very little here.
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      01-09-2010, 08:06 AM   #43
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I love my 135i i love the current M3... but i will always envy E30 owners....damn thats a real BMW, they don't make them like they used to.
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      01-09-2010, 09:01 AM   #44
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It is really interesting how the current thread is going, you should check out the M1 Anyone thread I started in the Australia Forum - most people on the forum actually prefers the M3. I am one of the very few exceptions.
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