Not to bring up the whole Auto vs Manual debate again, but........

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by Balls

I'm sure the Steptronic is decent, unless you're coming from a DSG like me. Then you'll absolutely realize how inferior it is.

Of course I opted for the 6MT, but if it had a dual clutch system at least as good as DSG then I would have opted for that regardless of price.

Personally, I would rather have 300 hp and a traditional auto than 200 hp and a DSG. I don't care what shifting magic it has, a 135 will smoke a GTI in every way shape and form regardless of the transmission.

Tiptronics are way more fun to drive than people give them credit for. You can downshift before a turn, how that gear while in turn, and explode out of the turn just fine with one.

Of course, I'd rather have 300 hp AND a dual clutch auto.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Troyn

Unfortunately it may add a couple hundred additional pounds to the weight too. :wink:

I don't see why. It might add 20-30 extra lbs compared to a "regular" DSG, for the mechanism that engages/disengages the clutch pedal (and the pedal itself).

Maybe I should write to BMW AG to plead this cause.

[Berduderunner]

.94?!?! where did u find that??

[asv]

0-60 is not the issue with the auto. Its a good auto, but it does not negate the need for a manual transmission in the 135i. Its a performance car.

[ManMachine]

Originally Posted by E82TT6

The ZF is a decent auto.

That said, I'd only get a flappy paddle if it was a real flappy paddle that drove like a sequential box.

The sticker on the 135i STEP says the transmission is from France. Is that still a ZF transmission?

Anyway, 6sp provides more fun for less money, can't imagine why one wouldn't go for it - well, the cell phone factor.

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by adc

I don't see why. It might add 20-30 extra lbs compared to a "regular" DSG, for the mechanism that engages/disengages the clutch pedal (and the pedal itself).

Maybe I should write to BMW AG to plead this cause.

I thought I read before that the DSG weighs 80lbs more than a comparable manual.

[asv]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

Anyway, 6sp provides more fun for less money, can't imagine why one wouldn't go for it - well, the cell phone factor.

That why the bluetooth feature is soo worth it. It works flawlessly with my iphone.

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by adc

Think about this: I don't see any technical reason why a DSG tranny should use a manual up/down shifting mechanism.

You could equip a DSG tranny with a true clutch pedal and an H pattern shifter. When in manual mode, it would enable (engage) the clutch pedal to the tranny shift "linkage". When in auto mode, it would disengage it and block the clutch pedal in the "up" position.


I'd pay an extra $2k, even more, for such a transmission. Fully manual in the traditional sense when you want to have fun, or an extremely competent automatic mode for the traffic glop.

i've been dreaming about this since i was little. full manual --> full automatic. wtf is taking the car manufacturers so long? must be busy adding cupholders or thinking up of new idrive systems.

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by saturn

Personally, I would rather have 300 hp and a traditional auto than 200 hp and a DSG. I don't care what shifting magic it has, a 135 will smoke a GTI in every way shape and form regardless of the transmission.

Tiptronics are way more fun to drive than people give them credit for. You can downshift before a turn, how that gear while in turn, and explode out of the turn just fine with one.

Of course, I'd rather have 300 hp AND a dual clutch auto.

nothing beats the feeling of a clutch pedal. it doesn't matter how you explode out of the turn. its the feeling of a real car that the step/dsg/smg/slushbox can't touch.

[MZWIE]

I just came form a Supercharged 330ci w/MT to a 135 w/auto.

First off all it's not a steptronic. That's an old term. In the Steptronic you could only shift one gear at a time. With this tranny you can click the paddles as many times as you want and it will change to that gear provided it doesn't compromise the engine.

So one can come into a corner in fifth, click, click and bam you're in third. Accelerate hard out of the corner, click, click and bam in fifth.

Frankly with the power and refinement on this tranny it is wellw orth it. BTW, it can shift faster than most people can their manual. With the BMW manuals it is very hard to shift fast I don't care how good you are.

Any way IMHO...YMMV.

[M3_Dust]

it's not hard to shift the manual quickly if you are proficient

the automatic will always be quicker and definitely more consistent than the manual in acceleration from a dead stop, but once the cars are rolling the manual will allow more precise gear selection to match the car's speed.

[M3Newbie88]

Like every argument.. there are reasons and pros/cons to getting a MT over a AT and vice versa so lets all just be happy ok.. enough said..

[ManMachine]

It's not about how faster the transmission can shift than you do - it's about who's in control, about the skills needed to become a good driver, and about the sense of awareness one has to have while driving. When one drives an automatic, seldom is it necessary to know which gear one's in.

[MZWIE]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

It's not about how faster the transmission can shift than you do - it's about who's in control, about the skills needed to become a good driver, and about the sense of awareness one has to have while driving. When one drives an automatic, seldom is it necessary to know which gear one's in.

I use to think that way until I went to the Performance Cente and drove the 335 AT's hard.

[Bizall]

It's WAY more of challenge to learn to drive a stick fast and properly. Automatic no matter what kind will never give you that feeling of accomplishment when you completed the perfect launch or heel-toe downshift. Accomplished properly would give a 1addict quivers. :headbang:

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

nothing beats the feeling of a clutch pedal. it doesn't matter how you explode out of the turn. its the feeling of a real car that the step/dsg/smg/slushbox can't touch.

I completely disagree with this. Associating a dual clutch gearbox wtih slushboxes is completely wrong. If anything, add the manual box to the slushboxes and place the DSG on the highest pedestal. It's that much superior to all at what it's designed to do, which is keep the motor in the optimum power range and to best exploit the engine given the situation. The DSG can be utilized in ways a manual couldn't dream of. For example, shifting mid corner doesn't upset the chassis, so feel free to change up flat out. It's also artful at downshifting while braking aggressively. It's perfect shifts at the perfect time, everytime. Impossible to overrev the motor, and most importantly it makes any car faster in spite of the weight penalty. Not to mention, it affords better fuel economy too. What's not to love and appreciate? I could go on and on...

What I'm giving up with my 250 hp TT vs. the 135i is a better handling/cornering car (understatement), a far better gearbox, better fuel economy, far better high speed stability, and incredible wet road manners. What I'm gaining is needed space, a faster car, and a better braking car. I could add Porsche Cayenne 6-piston fixed brakes for $2200 and have a better braking car, but I still don't get the interior space I require. Nonetheless, the 135i will have to do until my dual clutch M3 arrives! At that point, I'll have the best of all worlds...

[imported_volsfan0911]

When the GTI came out, I test drove both a DSG & manual back to back. DSG was smooth, fast, rev-matches perfectly every time unlike yours truly and probably is much more efficient than me. It was also boring as hell. The stick model felt like driving and made the car 10,000 times more fun. I've slogged through the worst traffic DC, I-95, NJ and NYC can dish out for a few years and wouldn't give up a manual for any of it (bum left knee and all). For me, it's the interaction rather than any question of speed (as above, I'm certain DSG would be much faster on a track with me behind the wheel versus rowing my own).

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

nothing beats the feeling of a clutch pedal. it doesn't matter how you explode out of the turn. its the feeling of a real car that the step/dsg/smg/slushbox can't touch.

I'm not talking about AT vs MT. I'm talking about DSG vs traditional auto. My whole point is that having a traditional AT with a lot of power can be a lot of fun with paddles.

I'm sure have a MT is so much more fun for you. I find it to be a hassle.

[M3_Dust]

Originally Posted by Balls

I completely disagree with this. Associating a dual clutch gearbox wtih slushboxes is completely wrong. If anything, add the manual box to the slushboxes and place the DSG on the highest pedestal. It's that much superior to all at what it's designed to do, which is keep the motor in the optimum power range and to best exploit the engine given the situation. The DSG can be utilized in ways a manual couldn't dream of. For example, shifting mid corner doesn't upset the chassis, so feel free to change up flat out. It's also artful at downshifting while braking aggressively. It's perfect shifts at the perfect time, everytime. Impossible to overrev the motor, and most importantly it makes any car faster in spite of the weight penalty. Not to mention, it affords better fuel economy too. What's not to love and appreciate? I could go on and on...

What I'm giving up with my 250 hp TT vs. the 135i is a better handling/cornering car (understatement), a far better gearbox, better fuel economy, far better high speed stability, and incredible wet road manners. What I'm gaining is needed space, a faster car, and a better braking car. I could add Porsche Cayenne 6-piston fixed brakes for $2200 and have a better braking car, but I still don't get the interior space I require. Nonetheless, the 135i will have to do until my dual clutch M3 arrives! At that point, I'll have the best of all worlds...

I'm pretty surprised that you think an Audi TT is superior to a 135i in any way other than maybe wet traction. I don't see the GTi based TT handling better than the 1'er and I'm not so sure about the high speed stability either.

[Project 393]

Originally Posted by vanbmw

I drove a 335 ith the auto and it is a nice tranny. If you drive in heavy traffic I'm sure it is great. However, I was dissapointed that the tranny selects gears for you even in full manual mode. If you are in 6th gear and you give it say 75%throttle it will kick down to 3rd and rip hard! It does it very smoothly but why should it do that when I am in manual mode? Sometimes it is nice to just give it gas in a higher gear and feel the torque without shifting down a few gears. It also lets will shift up when you get to redline. I know...I wasn't trying to bounce it off the limiter and be a dick! I just noticed once or twice as I was just about to pull the paddle it changed for me. Not a bad tranny ...just make mine manual!!!

This annoys me too...you have to be careful about what gear you are in before you go WOT, as it could surprise with a kickdown. All in all though I went AT anyway as I drink coffee on the way to work and I like the fact you can focus on the road with both hands on the wheel w/paddles when in "attack mode".

Frankly MT's are old school and brutal IMO. I like to bang gears, been there done that, I am taking advantage of the fact that the 135i AT setup as it is as quick(er) vs. the MT with less effort.

No apoligies needed.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by M3_Dust

I'm pretty surprised that you think an Audi TT is superior to a 135i in any way other than maybe wet traction. I don't see the GTi based TT handling better than the 1'er and I'm not so sure about the high speed stability either.

The TT was an excellent handling car until Audi intensionally dumbed it down after some high speed crashes from people who panicked when the rear started to step out. You may not be familiar with all they did, but they ruined what the engineers had accomplished. All it needed was a rear wing yet they made the steering and suspenion very slow to respond to inputs. I reversed all those things. I returned the lower control arms to normal which exponentially quickened the steering (to where it was originally) and the KW coilovers fixed all the bad characteristics (sinking, wallowing, lack of rebound) of the stock shocks. In any case, I've driven the 135i on all my favorite roads and my TT is so much faster in the bends. In fact, my TT is faster (cornering) wearing winter tires (Pilot Sport Alpin) than the 135i is wearing stock max performance RFTs. And using wheelspin to correct understeer on the street is just stupid. You should be able to turn in with great confidence and not have the front push so much that you have to correct it with wheelspin to induce oversteer.

As far as high speed stability, my TT is rock solid and nothing upsets it. I noticed a huge difference in the 135i. It required a lot more driver input to keep it where I wanted it.

Correct what Audi did to a TT and you have an amazing car.

I didn't even mention how much better looking my TT is than a 135i, inside and out. It didn't win many design awards for no reason.

[Robert]

I am 12 years auto driver and I took the plunge for a manual. Just had my first LA commute on my manual today. Not too bad. Once you get a hang of it, you won't mind.

I did find myself swearing, "Damn you slow MF, speed up I don't want to shift back into first."

Manual is all about the experience. If 135i was offered M-DCT I probably would have opted for it, but I am just sick of autos. I am sure there are plenty of others who are on the other side of the fence. Remember grass is always greener on my side.