Imagine if we had USA prices for cars...

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by Orlin

Ah yes but the question is would you give up your brand spankin new 1M?

Ah, good question, let me think.... the 1M belongs to the Mrs so.... hahahahaha

[Turbolader]

I am from the US, but I had a colleague who worked in the same position, but worked out of Liverpool.

There were lots of interesting discussions we had and I, while being a proud American, am very interested in the daily differences in cultures and standards in other countries.

I think that our cars are cheap, but what was strange for me was that my colleague made a little more (numerically) than I made, but in GBP, not USD. So while the cost of living was higher, the actual wages were considerably higher as well.

Other interesting differences I observed were that (apparently) Americans drink fluids rarely, but in large quantities (e.g. it's not uncommon to see someone drinking 946ml of water/soft drinks however - they might only drink twice or thrice a day). My colleague said the portion sizes are substantially smaller, yet the consumption was much more frequent.

I noticed that our company provided 4 weeks of paid vacation for UK staff (This was both the starting amount, yet also the maximum amount) whereas here in the US, it is common to have a starting vacation of two weeks and different companies have different maximums -- my particular company maxed out US employees at three weeks (That was after I worked there 5 years). My UK colleagues frequently complained that four weeks was "minging" (A catch phrase I learned from them )

I guess I think a direct comparison is not really useful because if you did what you do (where you live now) you would more than likely make considerably less here doing the same thing.

I will say though that right now, gasoline runs a little bit more than 1 USD per liter. That, I am told, is exceedingly inexpensive (Unless you live in an oil producing country). Remember as well though, that US gasoline is much lower quality, the octane here for top-level fuel is between 91-93 octane (AKI). (We do measure ours differently, so in comparison, it is between 95-98 RON octane). We also have lots of sulpher in our fuel, so it's harder on the engines than the fuel pumped in most other countries outside North America.

[Zuzu]

Ironically in smh.com.au today..

[It can blast to 100km/h in 2.9 seconds on the way to a top speed of 350km/h – but get ready to blow your retirement because Australians will pay up to $350,000 more than overseas buyers for the fastest Lamborghini ever produced]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...603-1fkfp.html

[1q2w3e4r]

Originally Posted by Turbolader

I am from the US, but I had a colleague who worked in the same position, but worked out of Liverpool.

There were lots of interesting discussions we had and I, while being a proud American, am very interested in the daily differences in cultures and standards in other countries.

I think that our cars are cheap, but what was strange for me was that my colleague made a little more (numerically) than I made, but in GBP, not USD. So while the cost of living was higher, the actual wages were considerably higher as well.

Other interesting differences I observed were that (apparently) Americans drink fluids rarely, but in large quantities (e.g. it's not uncommon to see someone drinking 946ml of water/soft drinks however - they might only drink twice or thrice a day). My colleague said the portion sizes are substantially smaller, yet the consumption was much more frequent.

I noticed that our company provided 4 weeks of paid vacation for UK staff (This was both the starting amount, yet also the maximum amount) whereas here in the US, it is common to have a starting vacation of two weeks and different companies have different maximums -- my particular company maxed out US employees at three weeks (That was after I worked there 5 years). My UK colleagues frequently complained that four weeks was "minging" (A catch phrase I learned from them )

I guess I think a direct comparison is not really useful because if you did what you do (where you live now) you would more than likely make considerably less here doing the same thing.

I will say though that right now, gasoline runs a little bit more than 1 USD per liter. That, I am told, is exceedingly inexpensive (Unless you live in an oil producing country). Remember as well though, that US gasoline is much lower quality, the octane here for top-level fuel is between 91-93 octane (AKI). (We do measure ours differently, so in comparison, it is between 95-98 RON octane). We also have lots of sulpher in our fuel, so it's harder on the engines than the fuel pumped in most other countries outside North America.

My Cayenne runs at $130 USD a tank to fill on 98 RON (93)

Cost of living in Sydney is much higher than in the US as well, its one of the most expensive cities to live in. Our tax systems works differently and the top tax rate it 46.5% for earnings over $180k

Now the dollar is up, and is likely to stay this way for the foreseeable future (an entirely different conversation), however when it was 0.65c to the USD an E46 M3 for example cost $140k AUD. Or around $120k USD.

997 911 turbos still run (the AUD is 1.07 USD) at $400k on road...

[jace88]

I would've bought an R35 rather than my Evo. Or a C63.

My manager is moving to Canada and when I looked up Yahoo Autos Canada, my heart sank when I saw the prices of most of the Germans!

[bfi2906]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Ironically in smh.com.au today..

[It can blast to 100km/h in 2.9 seconds on the way to a top speed of 350km/h – but get ready to blow your retirement because Australians will pay up to $350,000 more than overseas buyers for the fastest Lamborghini ever produced]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...603-1fkfp.html

I read this on the weekend, and felt ill.

The way I interpret it (assuming it's completely accurate) is, while there's a tax component that goes up and down with the price, and this supports all the social aspects mentioned. That's a side issue. The real reason our prices are high is because the manufacturers can get away with it. To put it another way, regardless of price, there'll always be someone that'll buy what they are allocated for Australia.

They use markets like Australia to prop up less buoyant markets, like the UK. That's what the man from Lamborghini said - "It’s always a difficult balance. There are markets where you can be fairly profitable … Australia and the UK are opposite [in profitability] at this moment."

What really annoys me is, originally they blamed the LCT. Then, when the $A was low, that was blamed for our higher prices. Now it's high, they've simply come up with another excuse for the extortionate prices. Welcome to the global economy.

Reality is, it's manufacturers margins specific to Australia that is mostly responsible for our exorbitant prices. LCT and other factors are lesser contributors.

On this basis, unless the market decides to vote with it's $'s and hold off buying these overpriced cars until they drop to something reasonable, it'll remain the same as it is.

The govt certainly isn't going to help - the higher the price of cars, the bigger their cut - so they want them as high as possible.

It's for this reason I have no issue pushing dealers to the wire when negotiating. Even when all the retail margin is gone, there is still "hold-back", which is $ rebates the dealership gets from the manufacturer. Sales people & managers routinely can't give this away - it needs someone higher.

[Hawkeye 135i]

Originally Posted by bfi2906

I read this on the weekend, and felt ill.

The way I interpret it (assuming it's completely accurate) is, while there's a tax component that goes up and down with the price, and this supports all the social aspects mentioned. That's a side issue. The real reason our prices are high is because the manufacturers can get away with it. To put it another way, regardless of price, there'll always be someone that'll buy what they are allocated for Australia.

They use markets like Australia to prop up less buoyant markets, like the UK. That's what the man from Lamborghini said - "It’s always a difficult balance. There are markets where you can be fairly profitable … Australia and the UK are opposite [in profitability] at this moment."

What really annoys me is, originally they blamed the LCT. Then, when the $A was low, that was blamed for our higher prices. Now it's high, they've simply come up with another excuse for the extortionate prices. Welcome to the global economy.

Reality is, it's manufacturers margins specific to Australia that is mostly responsible for our exorbitant prices. LCT and other factors are lesser contributors.

On this basis, unless the market decides to vote with it's $'s and hold off buying these overpriced cars until they drop to something reasonable, it'll remain the same as it is.

The govt certainly isn't going to help - the higher the price of cars, the bigger their cut - so they want them as high as possible.

It's for this reason I have no issue pushing dealers to the wire when negotiating. Even when all the retail margin is gone, there is still "hold-back", which is $ rebates the dealership gets from the manufacturer. Sales people & managers routinely can't give this away - it needs someone higher.

Spot on I reckon! Which makes the price of the 1M so surprising. BMW left plenty on the table.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by bfi2906

I read this on the weekend, and felt ill.

The way I interpret it (assuming it's completely accurate) is, while there's a tax component that goes up and down with the price, and this supports all the social aspects mentioned. That's a side issue. The real reason our prices are high is because the manufacturers can get away with it. To put it another way, regardless of price, there'll always be someone that'll buy what they are allocated for Australia.

They use markets like Australia to prop up less buoyant markets, like the UK. That's what the man from Lamborghini said - "It’s always a difficult balance. There are markets where you can be fairly profitable … Australia and the UK are opposite [in profitability] at this moment."

What really annoys me is, originally they blamed the LCT. Then, when the $A was low, that was blamed for our higher prices. Now it's high, they've simply come up with another excuse for the extortionate prices. Welcome to the global economy.

Reality is, it's manufacturers margins specific to Australia that is mostly responsible for our exorbitant prices. LCT and other factors are lesser contributors.

On this basis, unless the market decides to vote with it's $'s and hold off buying these overpriced cars until they drop to something reasonable, it'll remain the same as it is.

The govt certainly isn't going to help - the higher the price of cars, the bigger their cut - so they want them as high as possible.

It's for this reason I have no issue pushing dealers to the wire when negotiating. Even when all the retail margin is gone, there is still "hold-back", which is $ rebates the dealership gets from the manufacturer. Sales people & managers routinely can't give this away - it needs someone higher.

+ 1

[x5mad]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye 135i

Spot on I reckon! Which makes the price of the 1M so surprising. BMW left plenty on the table.

The pricing of 1M is indeed very surprising. Consider when e46 m3 came out. Prices in Australia were approx 140k. Same car in uk approx 40k (GBP). The 1M was released in uk with same price as e46 m3. Going by that BMW Australia had plenty to play with. Z4 35is , 335 convertible are all approx 40k GBP, and both of these in Australia are also close to, well what do you know, 140k AUD. does that mean we got lucky with respect to 1M pricing or should z4 35is and 335 vert be closer to 1m pricing ie 100k?

[BBK]

Originally Posted by x5mad

or should z4 35is and 335 vert be closer to 1m pricing ie 100k?

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by x5mad

The pricing of 1M is indeed very surprising. Consider when e46 m3 came out. Prices in Australia were approx 140k. Same car in uk approx 40k (GBP). The 1M was released in uk with same price as e46 m3. Going by that BMW Australia had plenty to play with. Z4 35is , 335 convertible are all approx 40k GBP, and both of these in Australia are also close to, well what do you know, 140k AUD. does that mean we got lucky with respect to 1M pricing or should z4 35is and 335 vert be closer to 1m pricing ie 100k?

I think all of our cars are overpriced but before pricing was released I thought the 1M would cost around 130-140k drive-away so I was surprised it came in around 110k drive-away. I think it's really good value and if most of us were buying today, we'd go for the 1M over the 135i, especially if we like corners

[sparoz]

LCT is a discriminatory tax - period. I accept the fact that manufacturers charge what they do because we are used to those prices, but LCT adds to that pain.

May be I should move to Canada .

[sparoz]

Check out these prices:

http://www21.porsche.com/canada/en/d...cialincentive/

[MrBlonde]

New and used car prices in Australia are a joke. same with DVDs, CDs, books, clothing .. most retail. The winds of change are blowing however ...

[Hawkeye 135i]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I think all of our cars are overpriced but before pricing was released I thought the 1M would cost around 130-140k drive-away so I was surprised it came in around 110k drive-away. I think it's really good value and if most of us were buying today, we'd go for the 1M over the 135i, especially if we like corners

+1. I've no doubt BMW could have sold the Aus quota at $125-130K drive away (base). $110K is still a lot of dough in an absolute sense but relative to what's on offer for similar money from other manufacturers, and given the excellent reviews, the 1M offers damn good value.

[johnsonsabroad]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye 135i

1. I've no doubt BMW could have sold the Aus quota at $125-130K drive away (base). $110K is still a lot of dough in an absolute sense but relative to what's on offer for similar money from other manufacturers, and given the excellent reviews, the 1M offers damn good value.

Its not good value compared to Canada - where the dollar, cost of living, wages and lifestyle are on par with Australia - Our Government duties and taxes aside, BMW Aust are making a killing out of us. Trouble is we probably represent 2% of their global sales (just guessing) - if no-one in Aust bought another BMW it would not even get a mention at the global sales meeting.

As if the base car prices aren't enough they then slug us 2 to 3 times the price for options which only increases the LCT and makes the price even more obscene when compared to any other place on the planet - just wrong.....

To lease a 135i fully optioned in Aust over 5 years $1400 p/mth, In the USA or Canada the same spec car $500 p/m - how do they sleep at night - "when the sale comes first and the truth comes second" - to quote a popular song....

Despite my rant, I'm still going to buy a new 135i and the price I pay will be completely forgotten before I drive it off the lot... The drug that is BMW....

[B-Moose]

The only way to break this cycle of us getting raped by car makers and the government is two steps:
1. Campaign to relax the silly import rules which make it difficult and prohibitive to personally import a vehicle. The purpose of these rules is to protect the crappy local car industry, but in effect they give the car manufacturers free reign to rip us off. If we were allowed freedom to import, it would break this wide open. Would be like the revolution that's happening in retail, people importing online from O/S and retailers finally realizing the game is up.
2. Reduce or abolish the LCT- this is an inefficient and discriminatory tax. Was labelled this and recommended for removal by the Henry tax review. Not that the government listened to anything contained in that report.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by BiMou

The only way to break this cycle of us getting raped by car makers and the government is two steps:
1. Campaign to relax the silly import rules which make it difficult and prohibitive to personally import a vehicle. The purpose of these rules is to protect the crappy local car industry, but in effect they give the car manufacturers free reign to rip us off. If we were allowed freedom to import, it would break this wide open. Would be like the revolution that's happening in retail, people importing online from O/S and retailers finally realizing the game is up.
2. Reduce or abolish the LCT- this is an inefficient and discriminatory tax. Was labelled this and recommended for removal by the Henry tax review. Not that the government listened to anything contained in that report.

+1, they actually picked the mining tax to follow...

[B-Moose]

Originally Posted by sparoz

+1, they actually picked the mining tax to follow...

Haha that's true... they only picked to add yet another tax, but ignored all the other recommendations of making the tax system more efficient.

[amk2912]

Wait till the b*stards introduce a pollution tax (in addition to a carbon tax) on motor vehicles. Bet my V8 blows out less crap than a 10 year old Corolla. If the Greens get their way we'll be getting around on horses/donkeys and there'll be a methane gas tax!

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by BiMou

The only way to break this cycle of us getting raped by car makers and the government is two steps:
1. Campaign to relax the silly import rules which make it difficult and prohibitive to personally import a vehicle. The purpose of these rules is to protect the crappy local car industry, but in effect they give the car manufacturers free reign to rip us off. If we were allowed freedom to import, it would break this wide open. Would be like the revolution that's happening in retail, people importing online from O/S and retailers finally realizing the game is up.
2. Reduce or abolish the LCT- this is an inefficient and discriminatory tax. Was labelled this and recommended for removal by the Henry tax review. Not that the government listened to anything contained in that report.

Bingo. The Holden and Falcon days are numbered. There will be no car industry in Australia before long.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by johnsonsabroad

To lease a 135i fully optioned in Aust over 5 years $1400 p/mth, In the USA or Canada the same spec car $500 p/m - how do they sleep at night

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_...nd_New_Zealand

It's not as unfair as you think. Take a visit to Iceland.