Track advice

[onefastman]

Went to my first DE today. I had an absolute blast and learned a lot. I noticed a lot of brake fade so I put new fluid in (blue stuff) and it helped but want brakes that wont fade. What pads would you suggest and are the ti shims helpful?

Also has anyone made a cooling duct like berk did and please post the link to the diy as I couldnt find it.

[Evice]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Went to my first DE today. I had an absolute blast and learned a lot. I noticed a lot of brake fade so I put new fluid in (blue stuff) and it helped but want brakes that wont fade. What pads would you suggest and are the ti shims helpful?

Also has anyone made a cooling duct like berk did and please post the link to the diy as I couldnt find it.

Are you sure you got brake fade ? You said it is your 1st DE, I can't imagine you were THAT fast/pushing. Hence, I am imagining you are braking into the turns which is over heating -gradually increasing braking on braking zone-. Try making your initial braking hard when your brakes are colder.

[onefastman]

I assure you, it was fade. I was not braking into turns, if I were I would be in a tire wall lol. I was braking hard on the strait and entering the turn off the brakes.

[Dackelone]

Onefastman... perhaps it was a combination of two things. Brake pads that were never really bedded in... and old brake fluid that boiled.

Before replacing the pads.... I would (sugest) you just changed your brake fluid to some "good stuff". Super DOT-4. Then re-test and see what you think. I would also use a braked fluid that has no tint/color to it. For less hassles from BMW.

Most likely IF you get hooked on track days your rotors and pads will be gone soon anyways! :")

[onefastman]

Oh I assure you, I am hooked lol

I changed my fluid the 2nd day and it felt much better but as I pushed it harder than I did the 1st day I could feel fade. I was under the impression that super blue or what ever it is called is good stuff, is this not so?

I am looking into some slightly used rotors for what ever track pads I buy, what would you suggest?

[larryn]

ATE Super Blue works well.

I've driven many track days (and many in my 1er), and I also find it unlikely that you got much noticeable brake fade, unless you were not aggressive enough on that middle pedal. If you feather the brake, as you are approaching a braking zone, you'll easily cook your brakes. It happens to most novices, so you are not alone. (and most swear they didn't do it)

Also, what are the chances that you need to bleed your brakes again? You can easily introduce microbubbles into the line. When replacing the OEM fluid with the ATE, you should have gone through at least 1.5 liters.. and worked from Right Rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front.

I use a full liter just for the right rear.

[onefastman]

I had an instructor with me who was one of the most expierenced and he was on top of it. Really 1.5L? I used a liter and bled untill it was very blue. I had someone help me who knew what they were doing and we did work in the proper order.

[Ruffan]

so to answer the question: I've tried a number of combinations and what I'm using now seems to work very well for me. Note that my tispeed titanium shims arrived today and are not yet on my car.

I am using Hawk DTC70 front pads and DTC60 rear pads. So as not to have to bed my brake pads every time I change them, I am also using a second set of stock front rotors which are matched to my track pads. I use ATE Super Blue and alternate with type 200 amber (same DOT 4 formula, different color).

I am a relatively experienced HPDE driver and drive in advanced groups with Porsche GT3's and all of the other fast cars that advanced drivers have. After my most recent, long day of track driving I can say that I didn't experience any brake fade with this setup. I do think I may have gotten enough heat in the brakes to boil the fluid slightly during one particularly long session, but hopefully the tispeed shims will cure this.

Hope this helps.

[onefastman]

Great, just what I wanted to know.

Who sells the hawks at the lowest price?

[david @ eas]

Hawk pads can be noisy at times on the street. For the best performance on the track to lower your brake fade, and to have great pads for street, Cool Carbon is the way to go. I would suggest trying them out to see how you like them, and on top of that, maybe add some stainless steel lines to eliminate brake fade as much as possible.

[onefastman]

I am still deciding if I want track pads or pads that will work for street and track. Cool carbon is on the top of my list for the ladder but it seems that hawk is best for the former.

Jurrian, what do you think about hawk?

[david @ eas]

Originally Posted by onefastman

I am still deciding if I want track pads or pads that will work for street and track. Cool carbon is on the top of my list for the ladder but it seems that hawk is best for the former.

Jurrian, what do you think about hawk?

The coefficient of friction on the Cool Carbon pads are higher than the Hawk pads... Maybe when the Cool Carbon pads are cool instead of warmed up, sure there might be a good comparison, but even then do the Cool Carbon pads stop your car quicker.

Once the Cool Carbon pads heat up they actually have a much higher coefficient of friction meaning you get greater stopping power out of your car. Normally that sways people to go with Cool carbon, but like I said, I've had experience with Hawk pads squealing on the street.

[onefastman]

Pm me with price

[david @ eas]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Pm me with price

Sure thing. PM coming shortly.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by jurrian @ eas

maybe add some stainless steel lines to eliminate brake fade as much as possible.

No. Stainless steel lines will have absolutely no effect on brake fade.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by jurrian @ eas

The coefficient of friction on the Cool Carbon pads are higher than the Hawk pads...

Hawk makes at least ten different pad compounds. Which one are you comparing the CC pads to?

[onefastman]

Very good to know, which ones?

[timhatimay]

I think the real question is:

Are you planning to change pads for the track with a dedicated set of track pads, or are you going to run the pads on the street as well? I think this would be a major decider on which pads are right for you.

I currently have CC pads on my car. On the street and for auto-x they have been excellent (there are several threads on here with other's experience as well), but if you are getting a dedicated track set there may be much more aggressive and properly tuned pads for this. I can't speak for HPDE, but I would guess being a Street/Track pad they will work, but probably not as good as a dedicated track pad. Once you know what the primary use will be then you can make a better decision.

My .02

Tim

[onefastman]

Thats what I said I was on the fence about so I wanted to hear some opinions as to how much better the track pads are to help me decide if it is worth it or not.

[onefastman]

Has anyone run Coolcarbon pads and the Ti shims?

[bradford]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Thats what I said I was on the fence about so I wanted to hear some opinions as to how much better the track pads are to help me decide if it is worth it or not.

In a word: infinitely.

[onefastman]

Yes but give me your thoughts, how much better are say DTC-70 vs. cool carbon?