BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      04-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #1
fourtailpipes
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front camber is not an issue!

i thought i'd start a thread to debunk this myth. it seems that many combinations of front axle suspension modifications have been made and reported to result in too-small amounts of negative camber. after installing ground control camber plates this weekend, i was astounded to find that when set at their maximum negative camber, i was getting well over 4 degrees with m3 control arms (aka "wishbone links"). it seems to me like this is all a factor of the camber plate used and whether the strut shaft is short enough to pass under the opening in the unibody at the strut hat. now i have all the adjustment i need, and more.

from what i've read, it seems that the vorshlag camber plates, which are wildly popular here, may be a limiting factor, as everything i can find about those plates on the e82 indicates a struggle to even get to 3 degrees total, including m3 arms (i refuse to refer to them as "bits").

has anyone had as much success as me with other plates? tckline, KW, etc.? it might be nice to get some info out there on which plates allow more or less camber.

here's my input: with the stock control arms and only the GC plates, the maximum i was able to get was 3.8 degrees on the right and 3.7 degrees on the left. with the control arms (but no tension rods), 4.5 right and 4.3 left.

i would have put this in the suspension forums, but i figured 3+ degrees of negative camber really only applies to the track.
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      04-09-2012, 02:59 PM   #2
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I can't get 3 deg on my vorshlags. I hear from experts that vorshlags are built tougher but mine drives me crazy with all the noise. was considering the TCK's or GC's but they are hemispherical ball joint design too. so they can get noisy as well
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      04-09-2012, 03:31 PM   #3
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Ground Control Street Plates e90/e82 339.00 + shipping installed last week



I was able to get well over -3.0 ( like -3.5 on the right .. a little less on the left ) as the first numbers that came up on the alignment machine without even trying or adjusting. we bounced and trounced on the car a bit, made sure springs were seated in the drive across the shop to the alignment machine and proceeded to set the car to -2.5 and "0" toe... I choose to go the set and forget route as i hear that tire wear is not THAT bad.

I have no M3 kibble and bits either ( sorry four, i had too) and am on stock sport suspension.

I love the response, it was a little darty t first, but i suspected that the alignment was the cause until tires and everything took a set.

I will say that the product seems very well made and installed without a hitch. I will add that although they dont rattle or sound over every bump, you know that they are there on washboard kind of roads.. a definite "thunk"

as my daily driver it's a little more than i thought it would be, but im getting used to it.

my best time around limerock is 1:07.8... hoping that i can better that by 2 / 3 seconds >>> ill know on Saturday !!! first event of the year !!
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      04-09-2012, 03:36 PM   #4
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TC Kline camber plates here. Can get just under 3deg.
No M3 bits yet (on order....).
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      04-09-2012, 06:18 PM   #5
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Total camber depends on strut length. Lowered cars end up with a lot more camber than stock height cars.
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      04-09-2012, 07:10 PM   #6
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I got the vorshlag plates, KW v2 and I can get just about -3.2 on both sides with no M3 Arms, which I plan to do.
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      04-09-2012, 07:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernbeat View Post
Total camber depends on strut length. Lowered cars end up with a lot more camber than stock height cars.
true, but with the movement in the ground control camber plates, the total strut assembly length is almost moot. there's so much range that i have far more adjustment than i'll need. my ride height is about 1/2" lower than stock, so still relatively conservative, and i was able to get a whole mess of camber. KW V1's quite near the top of the threaded adjustment.
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      04-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #8
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2011 BMW 135i  [7.06]
KW V2
M3 Control Arms
M3 Sway Bar
HPA Endlinks
Vorshlag Plates
-3 degree camber up front
-2 degree camber in back
No plate noise
Even tire wear
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      04-10-2012, 05:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
-3 degree camber up front
...
Even tire wear
This does not compute.
How can you run -3 degrees camber up front and still get even tire wear?
My front inside edges are trashed on nearly new tires... and I run -2...
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      04-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int2str
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
-3 degree camber up front
...
Even tire wear
This does not compute.
How can you run -3 degrees camber up front and still get even tire wear?
My front inside edges are trashed on nearly new tires... and I run -2...
Toe is what really kills tires; what do you run for toe in the front? I run -3 and my tire wear is pretty even.
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      04-10-2012, 08:48 PM   #11
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-1.8° up front with Dinan camber plates and no M3 bits. I think I could go all the way to -2° if my ride height was a little lower (just had new coil-overs put in and ride height was raised a bit).
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      04-10-2012, 08:56 PM   #12
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The Vorshlag's allow you to tilt the front strut until the top bolt hits the side of the strut opening on the frame. You really can't get more negative camber than that unless you push out the bottom of the wheel with control arms/wishbones.

With Vorshlag's only I was running -3.2 front.
With Vorshlag's and M3 arms I can run -3.7 front, but choose -3.5 for autox/track and -2.5 for DD.

Note that I have Dinan springs, which lower the car about an inch, which also adds to negative camber.
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      04-11-2012, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int2str View Post
This does not compute.
How can you run -3 degrees camber up front and still get even tire wear?
My front inside edges are trashed on nearly new tires... and I run -2...
I run toe-out and drive pretty hard, pretty much all the time. Hard meaning tire squeel on sweeping turns, on-ramps, exit ramps, etc. I also adjusted damping on the V2's to be as hard as possible without maxing it out, not sure if this has anything to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yandyr View Post
Toe is what really kills tires; what do you run for toe in the front? I run -3 and my tire wear is pretty even.
1/4-inch toe-out. What do you run?
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      04-11-2012, 08:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
I run toe-out and drive pretty hard, pretty much all the time. Hard meaning tire squeel on sweeping turns, on-ramps, exit ramps, etc. I also adjusted damping on the V2's to be as hard as possible without maxing it out, not sure if this has anything to do with it.



1/4-inch toe-out. What do you run?
I run about 1/16 toe-out in the front and 3/16 toe-in rear
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      04-11-2012, 09:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandyr View Post
I run about 1/16 toe-out in the front and 3/16 toe-in rear
Cool. Same setting for me in the rear.
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      04-11-2012, 11:39 AM   #16
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My Setup:
Stock Suspension
Stock Control arm, tension rod, etc
GC Street Plate

With that I can only get -1.9 camber on each side turning the plate to the max.
I thought I will get at least -2.5 so I bought 245/40/18 tire and now it rubs in hard cornering and lock to lock turn.
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      04-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uratomb View Post
My Setup:
Stock Suspension
Stock Control arm, tension rod, etc
GC Street Plate

With that I can only get -1.9 camber on each side turning the plate to the max.
I thought I will get at least -2.5 so I bought 245/40/18 tire and now it rubs in hard cornering and lock to lock turn.
very surprised to hear this... can you show a picture of your camber plate installed from under the hood so we can see what your setting looks like?
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      04-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
very surprised to hear this... can you show a picture of your camber plate installed from under the hood so we can see what your setting looks like?
Driver's side:


Passenger's side:



Also my plate didn't seem to fit on my car, I have to cut one of the bolt shorter each side in order to fit it.


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      04-11-2012, 02:06 PM   #19
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weird. i wonder if there are multiple versions of this "street" plate out there. my plates allow me to move the strut top nut far enough inboard that it partially slips under the opening in the chassis... at least another 5 or 10mm further than where yours is now. i also didn;t need to cut the inboard stud under the brace. it's got about 5mm of space.
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      04-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #20
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We didn't have to cut the stud either.

-Josh
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      04-11-2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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i saw someone last week had to trim the bearing rubber to get the top nut to grab threads too (which i didn't)... maybe there are in fact multiple versions of this plate?
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      04-11-2012, 03:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
i saw someone last week had to trim the bearing rubber to get the top nut to grab threads too (which i didn't)... maybe there are in fact multiple versions of this plate?
That would be us. Having thought about it GC may have sent me the bearing for a 1M, but we never bothered calling GC about it. It was easier for us just to modify it to work.

-Josh
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