Tightening front suspension - bushings vs m3 control arm kit

[Black Gold]

Hey guys,

I just got my 135i and I love it. Its more fun than my m3 so far, and i havent even really started to mod it yet )))

One problem I do have with it is that, especially at speed, the front end of the car is loose feeling and the steering has a very large amount of play in it. This could be in part due to somewhat greasy tires as I just put on some brand new re-11 tires, but its definitely only part of the issue.

I am not really too worried about decreasing the understeer since the car is easy to oversteer with the throttle and the re-11s provide plenty of grip, even before they are fully broken in.

So im basically looking to eliminate the slop and make the steering heavier and tighter at speed.

I noticed that HPA sold upgraded contorl arm bushings and also the full m3 front suspension upgrade kit.

Is there any benefit of doing the bushings, or should i just do it right the first time and get the 5xx dollar control arm kit?

I also plan to contact harold at HPA about this, but wanted to see if anyone had tried both and observed any major differences between the two.

Thanks!

[Pig Farmer]

When switching to the M3 control arms, I didn't feel much difference in the steering play, but I don't recall that there was much slop in the steering wheel to begin with (i.e. The original bushings were pretty new). If you are planning to change out the bushings, for the time and aggregation involved switching to the M3 bits is a no-brainer. Believe it or not, i think part of the loose feeling up front is due to the soft subframe bushings in the rear. Most people would agree that switching to the M3 subframe bushing make the front feel much more planted and responsive. In stock form I felt like the car would push/understeer at relatively moderate speeds until the rear end got a little unsettled (such as when the road surface switched from on camber to off camber), then the rear would wiggle it's tail, step out and loose all traction. It was unpredictable and frustrating to say the least. Talk to Harold... He was instrumental in sorting out my suspension.

[Fireflyer239]

I did the bushings and am very pleased, especially from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint. There's almost no play now, whereas before it was excessive. Highly recommended.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Fireflyer239

I did the bushings and am very pleased, especially from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint. There's almost no play now, whereas before it was excessive. Highly recommended.

Just the hd bushings from the website?

[Fireflyer239]

Yes, just the bushings from the website. I also did springs, dampers and tires - but nothing else associated directly with steering gear. The HD bushings made a big difference for a small price!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Fireflyer239

Yes, just the bushings from the website. I also did springs, dampers and tires - but nothing else associated directly with steering gear. The HD bushings made a big difference for a small price!

great feedback, thanks

im still undecided. i just installed an eibach pro system kit which drives great, but is definitely very low in the front.

i am running a 12.5mm spacer in the front and im experiencing significant rubbing

i am going to have to drop to at least a 10mm or possibly a 5mm.

this is making me consider the full m3 front suspension so i can run more camber and hopefully get the front tires to fit better.

i am on bridgestone re-11's on stock wheels in 225/40/18 front tires.

[Dackelone]

I don't know what you mean by "at speed".

For me, with unlimited autobahns... the 135i starts to feel really weird over 110 mph. And from 120 mph on up... when you go over bumps or dips... the front end really has some wonder/tracking going on. fastest I have driven is 175 mph.

When I switched from RFT to non RFT... I went to 225's/255's in size. One of teh very first things I noticed was how much better teh front end felt with these larger 225 tires vs the OE 215's. My car still feels wierd at very high speeds... but it is better than before with RFT's.

I also noticed on the new F20's and F30's that BMW has gone to a 225/245 tires for the 1er's and 3er's.

Since you have come from a M3... I would say you really should convert the front suspension over to M3/1M bits. The rears are less noticeable difference(from what others have poster before). I would also highly recommend you to replace the rear subframe bushings with M3 ones. This will really get rids of teh rear end rubbe-band effect when you nail the power on the exit of a turn. I only changed the M3 subframe bushings on my 135i and I was amazed on how much better the ENTIRE car felt. Even the front end... feels more planted and working much better than before. And all that rear end wiggle/toe changes are GONE! I love the M3 subframe bushings. I would really kill to upgrade my front end to M3 bits.


Dack

[Pablito1702]

M3 front control arm kit with M3 sway bar was the single best mod I have done in my opinion. I hated the way the front steering felt before. Now it is tight and direct. I did do the install at the same time as springs and shocks, so they may also may be contibuting to the overall feel.

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

great feedback, thanks

im still undecided. i just installed an eibach pro system kit which drives great, but is definitely very low in the front.

i am running a 12.5mm spacer in the front and im experiencing significant rubbing

i am going to have to drop to at least a 10mm or possibly a 5mm.

this is making me consider the full m3 front suspension so i can run more camber and hopefully get the front tires to fit better.

i am on bridgestone re-11's on stock wheels in 225/40/18 front tires.

Keep in mind that with a 5mm spacer you may have little if any lip left for your wheel to hang on. Depends on how chamfered the inside lip of the wheel is. 10mm has so little material supporting the extended lip on the spacer that they end up cracking over time. Either case you're transferring tons of load to the lugs. Not a good thing.

Consider getting a set of dinan camber plates instead of the m3 bits. It's not like the m3 bits add that much camber. That and the HD bushings would be a good combo.

[suprtran]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't know what you mean by "at speed".

For me, with unlimited autobahns... the 135i starts to feel really weird over 110 mph. And from 120 mph on up... when you go over bumps or dips... the front end really has some wonder/tracking going on. fastest I have driven is 175 mph.

When I switched from RFT to non RFT... I went to 225's/255's in size. One of teh very first things I noticed was how much better teh front end felt with these larger 225 tires vs the OE 215's. My car still feels wierd at very high speeds... but it is better than before with RFT's.

I also noticed on the new F20's and F30's that BMW has gone to a 225/245 tires for the 1er's and 3er's.

Since you have come from a M3... I would say you really should convert the front suspension over to M3/1M bits. The rears are less noticeable difference(from what others have poster before). I would also highly recommend you to replace the rear subframe bushings with M3 ones. This will really get rids of teh rear end rubbe-band effect when you nail the power on the exit of a turn. I only changed the M3 subframe bushings on my 135i and I was amazed on how much better the ENTIRE car felt. Even the front end... feels more planted and working much better than before. And all that rear end wiggle/toe changes are GONE! I love the M3 subframe bushings. I would really kill to upgrade my front end to M3 bits.


Dack

Do you have the OE part# for the M3 subframe bushings? Does PowerFlex offer these same bushings?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by suprtran

Do you have the OE part# for the M3 subframe bushings? Does PowerFlex offer these same bushings?

I have head the PowerFlex inserts do not work as well as the M3 bushings. Personally I would only go with BMW OE quality parts.

Here are the part numbers. You need two of each bushing.


http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...08&hg=33&fg=30

(2) 33312283382
(2) 33312283383

[EFI Logics]

Powerflex offers full bushing replacements as well as just inserts for the rear subframe.

-Josh

[katsooba]

hey Dackelone, what do you mean by not work as well as the M3 bushings?

what were the differences?
i assume the powerflex are stiffer, but what, in your taste, were the differences between the two types?

[Wrniknbl]

Originally Posted by Pablito1702

M3 front control arm kit with M3 sway bar was the single best mod I have done in my opinion. I hated the way the front steering felt before. Now it is tight and direct. I did do the install at the same time as springs and shocks, so they may also may be contibuting to the overall feel.

Totally agree however when pushing the car around corners the rear seems to come around and want to now oversteer - I had the same problem in my Liberty/Legacy until I added the rear sway....subframe bushings, guide rods M3 rear sway and upper link arms are on order - just debating if the rear sway bar should go in before the Quaife or with??

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by Wrniknbl

Totally agree however when pushing the car around corners the rear seems to come around and want to now oversteer - I had the same problem in my Liberty/Legacy until I added the rear sway....subframe bushings, guide rods M3 rear sway and upper link arms are on order - just debating if the rear sway bar should go in before the Quaife or with??

Don't add the rear sway until you are putting in the Quaife. Add them together. I put in a rear sway with the stock e-lsd, and it got way more wheelspin in autox use, so I put the stock rear sway back in. When I go to an LSD, I'll put the larger rear sway back in.

[TwinTurboed]

Bringing back this old thread.

I have the same question as the OP, control arm bushing upgrade or the kit? I don't track my car, but I want to improve the turn in. I have the bilstein b12 kit on my car and I love the way the car feels now.

I want to do whiteline rear subframe inserts and the control arm bushing upgrade, these:

http://www.hpashop.com/E82-E9X-HD-Fr...sh-e82-e9x.htm

[135iam]

Originally Posted by TwinTurboed

Bringing back this old thread.

I have the same question as the OP, control arm bushing upgrade or the kit? I don't track my car, but I want to improve the turn in. I have the bilstein b12 kit on my car and I love the way the car feels now.

I want to do whiteline rear subframe inserts and the control arm bushing upgrade, these:

http://www.hpashop.com/E82-E9X-HD-Fr...sh-e82-e9x.htm

What tires are you using and sizes? Also what is your alignment with the b12 kit?

I would guess you would be happier with Dinan fixed camber plates & rear bushings. I would not recommend the M3 arms or just the front bushings over those two options. But I wont say that for sure without knowing the above answers

[TwinTurboed]

Originally Posted by 135iam

What tires are you using and sizes? Also what is your alignment with the b12 kit?

I would guess you would be happier with Dinan fixed camber plates & rear bushings. I would not recommend the M3 arms or just the front bushings over those two options. But I wont say that for sure without knowing the above answers

I installed the b12 kit this Saturday, so no alignment as of yet. I will be getting one in a week or so, to let the suspension settle. I am going to have them knock out the alignment pins to get as much camber as possible.

I am running 225/40/18 and 255/35/18 Michelin PS AS plus tires.

I want to make the front of the car feel a little tighter and get more feel from it, so was wondering if bushings would do the job. Since I don't track, I can't justify spending $400 on control arms.

[John_01]

Originally Posted by TwinTurboed

I installed the b12 kit this Saturday, so no alignment as of yet. I will be getting one in a week or so, to let the suspension settle. I am going to have them knock out the alignment pins to get as much camber as possible.

How did you go? In the case of my 3 series sedan, drilling out the alignment pins out for a little extra camber made some improvement. I also installed the "BMW performance" front sway bar which seemed to help further (taken out of my 135i, when upgraded to M3 bar). Its just a couple of small mods that make the car nicer to drive in normal road use.

[Dackelone]

This is kind of an old thread but... no one has mentioned to switch over to a 1M/M3 upper strut tower brace. A friend of mine did this to his 135i and was really surprised on how much better the steering felt. He also has all the M3 suspension bits on his car.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

This is kind of an old thread but... no one has mentioned to switch over to a 1M/M3 upper strut tower brace. A friend of mine did this to his 135i and was really surprised on how much better the steering felt. He also has all the M3 suspension bits on his car.

I just did 1M strut bar upgrade, nice bling but no noticeable change in flex. I find the coupes to be pretty rigid to begin with. This was more for peace of mind to reinforce the strut towers and have easy access to the struts should I decide to go with aftermarket suspension down the road.



But if you're a real baller, you'll get these

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogu...E-TAB-E9X.html

[cpt97m3]

Has anyone tried these Rogue front control arm bushings?