[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by 3aficionado

A regular 3 is nothing like an M. Just because there will be 47 more HP in the 335 over the 330 doesn’t mean it falls between a 330 and an M. An M car is a completely different animal than any regular 3 series. M has the racing heritage with upgraded components all around including an actual M engine. How does adding a few horses to a regular 3 series make it split between a 330 and an M?

Agreed. M, AMG are completely different animals, extra 50hp in M means suspension, chasis , steering, rims/tires size, transmission programme , eveyrthing has to match the engine power to reach the prefect balance. That is, perfect tuning. A perfect example is CLK500 and CLK55 AMG, 60hp difference , the AMG is a true sport car and CLK500 is not. Same applies to M.

[wyrm11]

Good lord, BMW had better release the 335 on NY or we're all going to go crazy.

The speculation and endless debate is getting quite tiresome.

I don't think we can hold out much longer!!!

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by wahoo

good for you..now try and get that at a dealer.

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. Do you mean, a 325 configured that way won't be on a dealer lot, or do you mean the dealer won't budge off the msrp?

If it's not on the dealer lot, then order it. And EVEN if the dealer does not budge off msrp, the price difference is still $3k, not $6k for similarly configured cars. And my understanding is that you can get these cars for about $1000 above invoice.

And when you compare the invoice prices of a 330 with a similarly compared 325 (power seats, logic 7, and Xenon. Am I forgetting anything?), then the difference is even less: $2460

[Daneel]

So, people are buying the 325, even though it's 2460 cheaper. So if the 335 is about $3k more than the 330, people will still buy the 330. I probably will go for the 330, because I can get the premium and the sport on the 330, for the same price as the 335 (approximately). If the 335 includes premium, then it becomes a MUCH harder decision.

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by Daneel

So, people are buying the 325, even though it's 2460 cheaper. So if the 335 is about $3k more than the 330, people will still buy the 330. I probably will go for the 330, because I can get the premium and the sport on the 330, for the same price as the 335 (approximately). If the 335 includes premium, then it becomes a MUCH harder decision.

This is precisely why BMW will price the 335 just a little bit higher than what most people here would like.

[wahoo]

depends on the particular market with respect to budging off MSRP. When I looked at the 330 last fall there was no budging at all. Regardless, don't expect any dealer to move off MSRP at all on the 335 for a while. New platform/engine and I'm certain the press will be all over it. With a nod to Wyrm I think sport/prem on a 335 coupe will be 46 and change all day long if not 47. The 335 will be for someone that doesn't want to spring for the M but wants more sport than the 330. I also expect there to be more than simply an engine change on the sedan..just like the coupe..which will again, justify a higher price. Sport tuned track suspension maybe, big brake kit, alcantra interior option..kind of a ZHP model early. It will be a better car than the S4 for comprable money IMO.

I anticipate the 325 dropping off in 2-2.5 years...just like the 328 did.

[E90-4life]

Very interesting discussion guys, glad it hasn't turned ugly.

two quick points..

1. I'm not sure I see BMW marketing the 335 as "just" another addt. to the 3er lineup, I see this as somewhat of a more performance oriented model geared towards those who want E46 M3 performance at a lower than brand new E46 M3 price, I guess you can say an updated E46 330 ZHP w/ out all the M goodies.

2. Ulrich Bruhhke said it best in an interview w/ Bimmer magazine last year at the launch of the new E63 M6. When he was at AMG the goal of the brand in building high performance MB's was building the "fastest Mercedes Benz possible", when it comes to doing an M, "If we do an M we do an M, otherwise it would be just a BMW with more performance". In otherwords, if BMW is going to do an M car, it's going to be an M car from the ground up, that's why it takes several months before the market even see's the launch of an M car as where w/ a Benz AMG, the AMG version is avaiable from the get go. An M5 and 550i are two completely different animals.

[stressdoc]

If I can get it (335) with 4 doors, E90-4life's #1 above fits me just fine. An E90 ZHP is what I have always wanted, with the M-pack euro goodies. A turbo will be icing on the cake.

[06E90Rostik]

[kyazh]

Hey all, first post here. Im quite interesting in the new 3 series coupe that will be avaialble soon (?) I was about ready to purchase a e46 coupe, but then considered how bummed out I would be when the new one comes out, so I might just wait it out. So from what I understand BMW changed its naming strategy, no more "Ci" model? Instead it will be an E92 330i coupe? And there will be a 335, but in reality thats going to be a suped up 3.0L engine rather than a 3.5L, and a 335si which will be the turbo verson? So its guna be, E92 ...325i , 330i , 335i and 335si? Im confused as hell, I read the posts, but the engine options are new to me. Someone help me out, thanks!

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by kyazh

Hey all, first post here. Im quite interesting in the new 3 series coupe that will be avaialble soon (?) I was about ready to purchase a e46 coupe, but then considered how bummed out I would be when the new one comes out, so I might just wait it out. So from what I understand BMW changed its naming strategy, no more "Ci" model? Instead it will be an E92 330i coupe? And there will be a 335, but in reality thats going to be a suped up 3.0L engine rather than a 3.5L, and a 335si which will be the turbo verson? So its guna be, E92 ...325i , 330i , 335i and 335si? Im confused as hell, I read the posts, but the engine options are new to me. Someone help me out, thanks!

We are all Officially "In the Dark" at the moment...just like you are. Right now, this is all just speculation. Nothing has been announced yet by BMWNA about '07 models, but we're expecting something at the NY Auto Show next week.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by RichReg

We are all Officially "In the Dark" at the moment...just like you are. Right now, this is all just speculation. Nothing has been announced yet by BMWNA about '07 models, but we're expecting something at the NY Auto Show next week.

Yea...we should see something at the NY Auto Show about the coupe and possibly some other BMW products as well.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

It isn't my job to goad prospective 330i buyers into a 335i. If the prospect of a twin turbo 300+hp inline six with lots of easy tuning potential, plenty of space for 4 adults and luggage and BMW's legendary handling isn't enough, then stick with the 330i. It offers most of the above but will put a $5K smaller dent in your wallet.

I'm just telling you, realistically, what the 335i is going to price out at.

But you're assuming that the 330i will still exist in it's current form when the 335i comes out...

When the very same sources that first TOLD US (very reliably, I might add) about the 335i to begin with, BOTH suggested that the 325 -> 328 & 330 -> 335 changes would take place for the 2007/2008 model years.

In that scenario, a 2-3k increase in 335i MSRP from the 330i's current MSRP makes alot more sense. Realistically, of course.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by RichReg

Given the fact that the 3 Series sales volume is growing at a rather quick pace, I think it would be pretty stupid of BMW not to offer 3 versions of the sedan, because they would be taking more of a chance losing buyers if they only kept 2 models available.

I think what PeterE60M5 saw bears out the truth about the Coupe: Rather than use a "4 Series" as a Coupe, BMW just decided to re-badge both cars as 328 & 335 and use that model to showcase the new engine. Since there is a smaller market for the Coupe, they need not use 3 versions.

BUT, if BMW were indeed going to have a 325/330/335 sedan line-up, then would it make ANY sense to have a 328/335 coupe line-up?

If what you are suggesting were true, BMW would most likely just tack the 335i to the top of the sedan line-up, and create a 330i/335i coupe line-up.

From my perspective (total speculation, mind) it seems as though the 328i is poised to replace the 325i AND the 330i (at least in the US market), by offering 330i levels of power on the base model, while still somewhat preserving 330i resale values.

This scenario also offers a bit of an explanation to all the people (ie, everyone) who has been wondering why the hell the US 325i has a 3.0L engine, when the 2.5L liter sold else-where manages just as well (a practice that, I'm sure, can only add unneeded logistical complications on the production line). I, for one, find all these "emissions" explanations just a little bit sketchy. Just a little.

So to recap, where as (for example) South Africa's future lineup might look like this:

320i, 320d, 323i, 325i, 330i, 330d, 335i, 335si, M3

I think the US's future lineup might eventually look something more like this:

328i, 335i, 335si, M3

Anyway, so that's my take on it. But in the end, who knows?

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by RichReg

This is precisely why BMW will price the 335 just a little bit higher than what most people here would like.

Or maybe BMW will price them close enough so that the 335i becomes VERY enticing for prospective 330i/ZPP/ZSP owners. Enticing enough for them to say "The hell with it!" and spring for the more expensive model?

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

BUT, if BMW were indeed going to have a three-sedan line-up, then would it make ANY sense to have a 328/335 coupe line-up?

I think this was BMW's "happy medium". Since they didn't want to use the 4 Series nomenclature like they did with the 6 Series they are instead using the different 'engine badging' to differentiate the Coupe from the Sedan;;something we know that all manufacturer's try to do. Did you know that an MB CLK 350 is about $8K more in base price than an MB C350?

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

If what you are suggesting were true, BMW would most likely just tack the 335i to the top of the sedan line-up, and created a 330i/335i coupe line-up.

They most likely will add a 335i Sedan, but they don't have to give Coupe buyers a more expensive 330 engine when they can use the 325's. They save money this way and charge a somewhat large(r) premium for the 335 Coupe. The market for Coupes usually cannot be spread too thin.

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

From my perspective (total speculation, mind) it seems as though the 328i is poised to replace the 325i AND the 330i (at least in the US market), by offering 330i levels of power on the base model, while still somewhat preserving 330i resale values.

I'm thinking that the 325 still has that 'aura' about it as being the affordable BMW. They always seem to come back to this number because of its history.

But like you said, its just my take ....Who knows for sure?

[BenMW]

The coupe version will be only a 328 and a 335 and thats it.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by RichReg

They most likely will add a 335i Sedan, but they don't have to give Coupe buyers a more expensive 330 engine when they can use the 325's.

Well, I was thinking, the 325 and 330 use the same engine (at least here in the US)... why go through the trouble of retuning a THIRD 3.0L variant (ie, what a 328 would be) with less power than the 330, when you could just plunk the 3.0L from the 330 sedan straight into the coupe, saving redevelopment costs AND charging a premium?

Originally Posted by RichReg

But like you said, its just my take ....Who knows for sure?

Well played.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by RichReg

I'm thinking that the 325 still has that 'aura' about it as being the affordable BMW. They always seem to come back to this number because of its history.

I thought about this, and you're right about the 325i's aura. Which is why I think they'll keep it around for the rest of the world - but there've been other times when there's been no 325i. I wouldn't see this as a major departure from BMW's history or anything.

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

So to recap, where as (for example) South Africa's future lineup might look like this:

320i, 320d, 323i, 325i, 330i, 330d, 335i, 335si, M3

I think the US's future lineup might eventually look something more like this:

328i, 335i, 335si, M3

And I'm thinking the US lineup might change even more later... maybe they'll add a DI 325i in subsequent model years?

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Well, I was thinking, the 325 and 330 use the same engine (at least here in the US)... why go through the trouble of retuning a THIRD 3.0L variant (ie, what a 328 would be) with less power than the 330, when you could just plunk the 3.0L from the 330 sedan straight into the coupe, saving redevelopment costs AND charging a premium?

I don't think there's much to redevelop. Although I can't agree with some people here that the 325 can be tuned up to 330 hp levels, I do believe that BMW could add another 10 hp or so to the 325 just by adjusting the DME. (at least on paper anyway).

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

I thought about this, and you're right about the 325i's aura. Which is why I think they'll keep it around for the rest of the world - but there've been other times when there's been no 325i.

True, but usually that time is short-lived. Its been "in" more than its been "out". And assuming the upcoming changes are the longer term ones for this model's life-cycle, one would think BMW would like that number around. Also: the Direct-Injection variants normally aspirated are coming. I'm thinking that the 328 Coupe is actually going to have the Euro-Spec 2.5 liter engine w/Direct injection (tweaked a bit of course). Maybe that's the only real reason for changing the badging. Then next year they'll swing everything over for the Sedans as they switch the engines over for all the other models.

[stressdoc]

For those of us that have our hearts set on a E90 (or E91) 335, the only hope I see is for the E92 to start the 328/335 designation, and then for the sedans to follow. I was hoping for a summer E92 release, followed by the Sept E90 release with new engines. I am not so hopeful now. It seems some idiot in marketing has convinced the decision makers that the coupe needs distance from the sedan, and that the distinct labels 328/335 will do that for the E92. I cannot imagine this farce carrying on for long; how many folks are going to want to plop 40k on an E90 330 in 2007 under this ruse? And all models are certain to get the same engine options eventually, including the low emissions 2.5l

[chonko]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

BUT, if BMW were indeed going to have a 325/330/335 sedan line-up, then would it make ANY sense to have a 328/335 coupe line-up?

If what you are suggesting were true, BMW would most likely just tack the 335i to the top of the sedan line-up, and create a 330i/335i coupe line-up.

From my perspective (total speculation, mind) it seems as though the 328i is poised to replace the 325i AND the 330i (at least in the US market), by offering 330i levels of power on the base model, while still somewhat preserving 330i resale values.

This scenario also offers a bit of an explanation to all the people (ie, everyone) who has been wondering why the hell the US 325i has a 3.0L engine, when the 2.5L liter sold else-where manages just as well (a practice that, I'm sure, can only add unneeded logistical complications on the production line). I, for one, find all these "emissions" explanations just a little bit sketchy. Just a little.

So to recap, where as (for example) South Africa's future lineup might look like this:

320i, 320d, 323i, 325i, 330i, 330d, 335i, 335si, M3

I think the US's future lineup might eventually look something more like this:

328i, 335i, 335si, M3

Anyway, so that's my take on it. But in the end, who knows?

That is what I think as well.
US model line up will be 328i/335i/335si(if and when)/M3.
And I strongly feel both the 328 and 335 will attract a marginal increase in price of about 4% over the 325i and 330i respectively.