E93 M3 front swaybar - more understeer?

[mpatrone]

For those of you who track your cars and have the front E93 bar, does it help with grip or does it just make the car push more?

I have Vorshlag camber plates on stock suspension with around -2.5 front camber, but experience SIGNIFICANT body roll at VIR. After finding my outside tire temps remain to be higher than inside/center, I'm thinking that the car is losing grip due to the McPherson design and a stiffer front roll bar would help.

People have mentioned possible improvements if you have neg. front camber, but I'd just like to hear feelings from people with track experience and maybe how much neg. camber is needed to warrant installing the bar vs keeping everything stock.

[pixelblue]

this would be a cheap enough mod to experiment and decide for yourself. a lot of varying opinions. I have the E92 bar and I am very happy with the minimal body roll. definitely helps with quick left right transitions. -2.5 to -3 deg camber and -1/8" toe-out have worked really well for me

[mpatrone]

Does it push at all? Do you think the E93 would be too much? Also noticed that you are not on stock suspension, so I'm guessing my car should benefit more if anything from the bar since your PSS is already stiffer/less resistant to roll?

[pixelblue]

just saw your video. your car rolls sooo much, lol. yeah definitely pick up a bar. I would say go with the E92 bar first. with my setup there was little understeer. would like to upgrade my rear bar but don't want to make the car too twitchy with a stiff rear end

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by mpatrone

Does it push at all? Do you think the E93 would be too much? Also noticed that you are not on stock suspension, so I'm guessing my car should benefit more if anything from the bar since your PSS is already stiffer/less resistant to roll?

I'm on stock suspension. Without the camber plates but with the bar the car pushed a tad but the roll was a lot less. Once with camber plates and the bar it is actually very nice. I love my turn in now and without the body roll I feel more in control behind the wheel at speed.

[RedTRex]

After 4 years of Autocrossing a 135i, I found I am quickest on ASTs/Vorshlag plates with stock sways. Once I returned to stock sways; I finally was able to adjust what the car does with the the AST settings.

[yaymitch]

I am going with BMW Perf. springs and ordered the E93 sway bar. Since I am going to stiffer suspension will the E93 Sway Bar still be too much?

[GaryS]

If it's for street, it probably doesn't matter. If it's for track, I think you should change your order to e92 swaybar. Just my opinion based on what I've heard and have read in this forum. I haven't actually tested the e93 swaybar.

[yaymitch]

Switched order to E92 swaybar...

Thanks!

[WPG D33Z]

I dont track my E88 and I bought the E93 bar thinking it would make the car tighter driving around the city. Should I even bother installing this?

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by WPG D33Z

I dont track my E88 and I bought the E93 bar thinking it would make the car tighter driving around the city. Should I even bother installing this?

I think you will like it. It removes a ton of body roll.

[andrey_gta]

installed e93 sway on stock sport supention.
early impression:
-Precise steering, i like
-Tight feeling, prob due to less body roll, feels like a brand new car
-Slightly more effort on steering wheel, feels more planted,
-Cannot comment on understeer, but m DTC light has been blinking more, maybe cuz its wet

[///S55]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but was this talking about the front or rear sways ?
Which one is more beneficial just for a daily driver to tighten up steering and have less body roll ?

[bavarianstig]

Originally Posted by ///N54

Sorry to revive an old thread, but was this talking about the front or rear sways ?
Which one is more beneficial just for a daily driver to tighten up steering and have less body roll ?

I believe most of us were referring to the front sway.

Both will give you less body roll; however, since we have an open diff, it is NOT advisable to stiffen up the rear sway too much. Stiffening the rear sway will make it more likely to lift the inner wheel during cornering. Lifting that inside wheel will cause it to just spin in the air, resulting in loss of power and traction. *Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong*

All of what I just said is not significant concern unless you are considering tracking the car. Stiffening both front and rear bars shouldn't have any adverse affects on the street.

[///S55]

Originally Posted by bavarianstig

I believe most of us were referring to the front sway.

Both will give you less body roll; however, since we have an open diff, it is NOT advisable to stiffen up the rear sway too much. Stiffening the rear sway will make it more likely to lift the inner wheel during cornering. Lifting that inside wheel will cause it to just spin in the air, resulting in loss of power and traction. *Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong*

All of what I just said is not significant concern unless you are considering tracking the car. Stiffening both front and rear bars shouldn't have any adverse affects on the street.

If I was to do one, would you advise doing front or back?

[bavarianstig]

Front

[annalisa_ferri]

Guys,

a good read about this topic.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=281136

The (not common) conclusion:

E92 M3 front + no rear sway at all...

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by annalisa_ferri

Guys,

a good read about this topic.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=281136

The (not common) conclusion:

E92 M3 front + no rear sway at all...

nothing new buddy. it's a known fact

[Ginger_Extract]

AutoX'rs in stock class who replace the front bar, do so in conjunction with dialing in as much negative camber as possible. The goal is to have that stiffer bar reduce deflection (hopefully I am using this term correctly, it's hard to explain in text without looking at the car) and maintain that increased negative camber. I am not sure what factory spec for the front suspension of these cars is, but in a lot of McStrut cars, under heavy twisting/leaning motions, there can be temporary periods of positive camber from that suspension deflection, severely reducing available front grip. Based on how I had my old Mazda set up, it really didn't work well until I was running camber plates w/ 2.5+* in the front with a bit of toe out on the 235 square set up. Most racers (myself included) could write a small book about this, but your ideal goal is to optimize camber for your specific wheel/tire setup to keep as much of the contact patch holding the ground as is best for the type of surface.

Is there an "Official Alignment Thread" here? It would be really beneficial to see how other's are setting up their cars. For example, here was how I had my Mazda3 set up for DD/AutoX/Track days

Front:
Camber: -2.6*
Toe: 1/8th" total toe out
Caster: NA

Rear:
Camber: -1.5*
Toe: 0

This was with relatively short stroke coilovers with camber plates, 17x8+45 wheels on a 235/45 tire on a 65/35% weight distribution, open diff'd 2950lb FWD car.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by ///N54

Sorry to revive an old thread, but was this talking about the front or rear sways ?
Which one is more beneficial just for a daily driver to tighten up steering and have less body roll ?

Front bar with a good alignment. If you want your steering to feel a bit quicker/snappier on turn in, dial in some toe-out in the front. Then again, this is very opinionated/subjective.

[RimasRS]

One more question why convertibles goes from factory with stiffer thicker sway bars???

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by RimasRS

One more question why convertibles goes from factory with stiffer thicker sway bars???

because having a roof makes the car more rigid and the chassis less prone to twisting. that's why most convertibles have extra bracing support to make the car more rigid