Carbon Fiber!

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

I think I'd like a carbon fiber hood on my alpine white 135i but the only problem ifs finding a real carbon fiber hood. most of the so called high quality carbon fiber hoods are just fiber glass with a carbon fiber outer layer. they tend to be heavier(than solid carbon fiber) and not as strong.

I've found the same thing. Which is why many of them only save 5-10lbs. There's probably 3 or CF hoods for the 3er so far, I'm sure we will have options on the oner, hopefully it won't take so long now that the vendors know how big the aftermarket for a n54 car is.

[QuInn1]

Originally Posted by kamakazitp

replacing the sunroof with cf would be the biggest weight saver. even the hood and trunk wouldnt save THAT much, but it would look alright.

about the grill and window trim, leave it chrome or get it painted black "shadowline" style. its just trim, no point in wasting money to get that stuff in cf.

you dont replace the roof its just a cf layout that goes on top of it....

[ShifterKart]

I am all for CF for weight savings. I prefer to paint the CF components body color though. In my opinion lots of raw CF looks ricer.

[DimaGt]

If you concern with weight not the look there are a lot of other things you can do.... Starting with loosing rear seats and replacing front ones...But if you are going for simply for a look, then Don't go crazy. There is limit on everything otherwise it becomes tasteless and silly. Kidney grills and mirrors in CF are nice, small little touch... just my 2 cents.....

[One&Only]

I hear a lot about making it light in this thread...excuse my ignorance...but just what makes this sweet thing as heavy as it is in the first place...Not that I think it's excessively heavy or that I would replace stuff...just wondered what tipped the scales. Those wheels would contribute along with the RFs i'm sure.

Guess we should have 2 categories. Things we have to live with and things which can be modded for a lighter version.

Any and all ideas are appreciated.

[135i_]

Originally Posted by 335ito135i

(and most people) ?! OH REALLY since when did you and three other guys become most people?

When I said most people, I was referring to most of the people I've talked to. I've been to a lot of BMW events and CF rarely comes up. Guess how much CF is on our full race 2002tii? None. It's not worth it and the car is already stripped anyway. It's unnecessary and the questions hugo already brought up about safety are legitimate as well.

Originally Posted by 335ito135i

Since when did useful become the only priority?
Is this thread about cost effiency?

That's the difference. That's the point I was trying to make, thanks for making it for me. For myself and other enthusiasts, useful IS the only priority. Guess how many track cars I've seen with sweet ricer paint jobs? Very few if any. Like I said if you like CF good for you, but stop trying to convince people that it'll do much for you performance wise.

Originally Posted by 335ito135i

many of us are already planning on doing those 20 things you mentioned. Including a cf hood since the oner needs less front end weight.

Oh, what besides CF are you planning on doing? And why does the oner need less front end weight when it's already about 50/50?

Originally Posted by 335ito135i

I guess you won't be buying aftermarket rims either because that would make your car look "kewl" or add to the "bling" factor that "most people" would be turned off by?

No, I will certainly be buying aftermarket wheels and tires because they are a necessity performance wise.

[321]

Wow i didn't think people would be bashing the use of CF so much in a 1er forum.:iono:

For all intensive purposes CF is a superior material. Real CF(vacuum bagged) has a higher tensile strength, shearing point, stress loading, safety, least weight, etc., of any material known to man aside from nanotubes. You know what nanotubes are made out of? Carbon. The highest tensile steel will have a high carbon content. There is a reason why CF is so widely accepted in motorsports; It is pound for pound the best material, period. Why do you think it is sooo expensive? Shit, i wouldn't care if the whole car was made out of it and wasn't painted, in fact i would die for that. You guys realize the only reason why you wouldn't mind a CF roof is because BMW implemented that in their M program? If M's came with a CF hood and trunk i bet you would be alright with that as well. I will venture to say that within the next 5 years M is going to be doing just that. Reason? Handling! As we know M= handling! I don't think i have to explain their reasoning for it but what the hay. Removing the most weight from the highest points will not only lower the center of gravity but also reduce the moment of inertia. Depending on how it is implemented, it will also effectively increase the structural rigidity of the vehicle. You WOULD notice a difference in handling of a 1er w/ CF roof, hood, and trunk.

My estimates of weight reduced in a 135i using real CF (vacuum bagged).

50lb hood(?) 10-12lb CF = -40lbs unpainted
25lb trunk(?) 8lb CF = -17lbs unpainted
45lb sunroof(?) 7lb CF = -38lbs unpainted
total = -95lbs from the top of the car

To all you people that think CF is ricey; Im sure we have all seen that nasty ass, bondo'd, 5 color, mid 80's japanese pos with an even more nasty excuse of a CF hood. Can you blame them? I bet they are more stoked about their hood than the whole car. Because they understand what CF means. Performance. You can't blame them for wanting a piece of motorsports. Just like you can't shun people that want to tastefully add CF to their car. Imo there is a difference between rice and what these BMW owners want to do. Don't let ricers sour your taste of CF. Do some research and decide for yourself.

And if you do decide and you don't like CF then you better get used to it because thats where the future is. All auto makers are coming up with ideas on how to reduce body weight, not only for performance, but moreso for fuel economy. For that reason plastics are becoming mainstream and highly implemented until a more cost effective way of producing CF arises.

/class

Zak

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by 135i_

When I said most people, I was referring to most of the people I've talked to. I've been to a lot of BMW events and CF rarely comes up. Guess how much CF is on our full race 2002tii? None. It's not worth it and the car is already stripped anyway. It's unnecessary and the questions hugo already brought up about safety are legitimate as well.

-If safety is important to you, it's certainly something to consider. If weight savings/looks is your priority is a question or whether or not it's "worth" it to you which is a matter of opinion and wallet size/spending threshold.



That's the difference. That's the point I was trying to make, thanks for making it for me. For myself and other enthusiasts, useful IS the only priority. Guess how many track cars I've seen with sweet ricer paint jobs? Very few if any. Like I said if you like CF good for you, but stop trying to convince people that it'll do much for you performance wise.

-I'm not following the CF isn't useful idea, to me it seems obvious it's lighter.......
-WHen it comes to looks, that's all opinion.





Oh, what besides CF are you planning on doing? And why does the oner need less front end weight when it's already about 50/50?

Originally Posted by kamakazitp
wont all these universal tuning systems (procede, etc) not take advantage of all your extra mods (DP, FMIC, etc)? I mean, after all, the tunes werent designed for them.

you'd have to get a custom tune/map made to take advantage of your mods. some of the guys on e90post have had problems with downpipes making no (or sometimes loss of) power with procede.

I know v2 is supposed to cure cancer, but unless its designed for your specific combination of mods, it seems like it wouldnt be running as well as it could until you get a custom tune.

Shiv has already said he will make a TBE V2.0 map. I'm sure it will be out within a couple months.

About which Intercooler I'll buy, I still waiting to find out from others which ends up being the best, there are still very few people running FMIC's so far, and some of them are custom. Also, with the M-kit on our 1er's, there's more room then on the 3er for FMIC surface area, so I expect better results on the 1er.


As far as weight saving mods go. And no, I'm not going to do the math, but here's my list.

-TBE, titanium
-Lightweight wheels/tires
-recaro seats
-lightweight battery
-lightweight Coilovers
-sunroof delete
-removal of back seat
-lightweight strut bar
-another 10lbs of junk around the engine that can be replaced with lightweight materials
-CF hood, trunk.

Expensive?

It will be my first major project car. Look for larger turbo's in the near future as well.




No, I will certainly be buying aftermarket wheels and tires because they are a necessity performance wise.

-I agree this is the best performance/aesthetic mod.


The reason the front end will be heavy is because you will lose 20-35lbs at the rear going with a Aftermarket TBE where the weight is coming from the rear end. That's with Stainless Steel, with Titaninium there will be more. ALso, I plan on removing the rear seat, which will be more rear end weight loss. It will most likely be 51/49% as well. Like most other BMW's.

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by DimaGt

If you concern with weight not the look there are a lot of other things you can do.... Starting with loosing rear seats and replacing front ones...But if you are going for simply for a look, then Don't go crazy. There is limit on everything otherwise it becomes tasteless and silly. Kidney grills and mirrors in CF are nice, small little touch... just my 2 cents.....

IMO you don't want to much.......that's not painted anyway. I like the more subtle bits as opposed to major pieces of bodywork being unpainted (except the roof, i love that).

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by zba857

Wow i didn't think people would be bashing the use of CF so much in a 1er forum.:iono:

For all intensive purposes CF is a superior material. Real CF(vacuum bagged) has a higher tensile strength, shearing point, stress loading, safety, least weight, etc., of any material known to man aside from nanotubes. You know what nanotubes are made out of? Carbon. The highest tensile steel will have a high carbon content. There is a reason why CF is so widely accepted in motorsports; It is pound for pound the best material, period. Why do you think it is sooo expensive? Shit, i wouldn't care if the whole car was made out of it and wasn't painted, in fact i would die for that. You guys realize the only reason why you wouldn't mind a CF roof is because BMW implemented that in their M program? If M's came with a CF hood and trunk i bet you would be alright with that as well. I will venture to say that within the next 5 years M is going to be doing just that. Reason? Handling! As we know M= handling! I don't think i have to explain their reasoning for it but what the hay. Removing the most weight from the highest points will not only lower the center of gravity but also reduce the moment of inertia. Depending on how it is implemented, it will also effectively increase the structural rigidity of the vehicle. You WOULD notice a difference in handling of a 1er w/ CF roof, hood, and trunk.

My estimates of weight reduced in a 135i using real CF (vacuum bagged).

50lb hood(?) 10-12lb CF = -40lbs unpainted
25lb trunk(?) 8lb CF = -17lbs unpainted
45lb sunroof(?) 7lb CF = -38lbs unpainted
total = -95lbs from the top of the car

To all you people that think CF is ricey; Im sure we have all seen that nasty ass, bondo'd, 5 color, mid 80's japanese pos with an even more nasty excuse of a CF hood. Can you blame them? I bet they are more stoked about their hood than the whole car. Because they understand what CF means. Performance. You can't blame them for wanting a piece of motorsports. Just like you can't shun people that want to tastefully add CF to their car. Imo there is a difference between rice and what these BMW owners want to do. Don't let ricers sour your taste of CF. Do some research and decide for yourself.

And if you do decide and you don't like CF then you better get used to it because thats where the future is. All auto makers are coming up with ideas on how to reduce body weight, not only for performance, but moreso for fuel economy. For that reason plastics are becoming mainstream and highly implemented until a more cost effective way of producing CF arises.

/class

Zak

As you can see Hugo and 135i, there are plenty of car guys who like alot or a little CF. It would be very difficult to say what "most people" like accurately.

[Italteen3]

Still don't understand why some of you are almost trying to sway us from not putting any CF on the car.:iono: Do you guys think I am going to "taint" the BMW brand with CF mods?

Im not going for a super flashy CF look. My car will be jet black with unpainted CF hood, roof, and trunk. Only aesthetic CF I will have are the kidney grills, interior trim, and maybe an engine cover as I believe window trim comes shadow already so no CF there. If I can save 40+ pounds from the highest poins on the car front to back why not?!? Sure plenty of other ways to save weight which I will be implementing but every little bit helps.

If you don't like what I am doing come see me on a BMW meet/run and look at the car in person and tell me.

[321]

Originally Posted by Italteen3

Im not going for a super flashy CF look. My car will be jet black with unpainted CF hood, roof, and trunk. Only aesthetic CF I will have are the kidney grills, interior trim, and maybe an engine cover as I believe window trim comes shadow already so no CF there.

This is almost exactly what is bouncing around in my head... Im almost tempted to contact a 60 million $ friend and giving him a proposal about making a limited run of performance 1er's.... in fact thats what i would call it P1! :w00t:

[ppDoc]

Originally Posted by ichiban

CF roof, CF lip would be the two i'd most want.

the roof effectively removing weight and lowering center of gravity, and lip for looks

+1

[DimaGt]

About a year ago one the Tuning magazines did comparison between standard Nissan 350Z and tuned one with shit load of carbon fiber and things like that. The editor stated that on the street, the savings from carbon fiber are so small you will never feel them. On the track the MAY give you a little bit faster time. IF I find that article I will scan it for you guys to see....

[Italteen3]

Originally Posted by DimaGt

About a year ago one the Tuning magazines did comparison between standard Nissan 350Z and tuned one with shit load of carbon fiber and things like that. The editor stated that on the street, the savings from carbon fiber are so small you will never feel them. On the track the MAY give you a little bit faster time. IF I find that article I will scan it for you guys to see....

I definitely would like to see the article. It won't stop me from buying the CF parts only because Im not just getting CF to remove weight there will be plenty of other parts of the I will be switching/changing/removing to lower the weight. CF is just one piece of the puzzle.

[imported_emos325]

who and where could i find a carbon fibre replacement for my roof? is it possible with out damaging my structural integrity? what about a lightweight or cf drive shaft to exp or too over the top? i'd like to replace the side and rear windows with Plexiglas/lanex any ideas guys?

[321]

Originally Posted by emos325

who and where could i find a carbon fibre replacement for my roof? is it possible with out damaging my structural integrity? what about a lightweight or cf drive shaft to exp or too over the top? i'd like to replace the side and rear windows with Plexiglas/lanex any ideas guys?

IMO you need 20 more money ready people and send it to a CF manufacture(vorsteiner, etc.) and pay a reasonable price or send your car(they need to blueprint it) off to get it done and pay for it out the a$$. Either way if you plan on getting other CF parts i suggest you stick with the same manufacture because it won't match up otherwise.

Personally i was impressed w/ build quality of the hoods vorsteiner makes and would be confident enough that they could design a roof that would improve the rigidity of the car. I definitely don't want a sunroof, so if it is an option for the car then i won't go aftermarket for a while.. So if/when the time comes if there is >20 people w/ cash in hand we could Git-er-dun. :headbang:

[ichiban]

swt, i'd be in line for that roof. I'm with you on the whole sunroof option, if i'm gonna be paying for it, i guess i will at least enjoy it for awhile before putting CF on. CF has been adopted by many motorsports. One of them being time attack. For people that know about time attack, the tsukuba circuit is one of the hardest if not the hardest circuit today. It is the barometer for Japanese modern tuning. And i think if the CF didn't make a difference, then why would you be hard pressed to find a vehicle without a sprinkle of CF pieces. One of the long running time holders was the HKS all CF evo. There's also plenty of all CF lotus Elises out there. Why do people mod the elise with CF when it's 1900 lbs already? because it saves more weight and gives better chassis rigidity. Oh and because i hate a thread with no pictures, here are some.

[321]

:w00t: That evo is just stunning IMO. minus rear wing, etc, etc.:respekt:

[Italteen3]

Those cars are SEXY!

[GAL]

Maybe I'm old and unaware, but by putting CF body parts on your new car, doesn't that reduce safety specifications that the car builder has built into the car?? What does this do to your warranty??? If some one does do this and gets into an accident and the structure of the car fails do to the replacement of stock parts with aftermarket CF parts, surely the car manufacture can't be held accountable!!!! Are you all planning to race these cars?? If so I understand, the need to reduce body weight, but if you are going to be a weekend racer and use the car as a daily driver, why take a chance on voiding the warranty? This car already seems to be well set up with disc brakes all around, and sound suspension, and a 50/50 front to rear weight ratio,and a great engine, why mess with the body panels?? Why not interior items that could be taken out and put back in when warranty issues arise. I was always told that taking a rear seat out and replacement of front seats with lighter seats, and door panels made the most weight reduction, and there again, offer the possibility to replace them should something happen, and you need warranty work. I guess if you don't need the warranty, and this is just a toy, then I say go for it. But if this is your primary transportation, you may see the need for the warranty coverage. Back in the day some 40 years ago, when we went racing(DRAG), to reduced weight, but the still have the car under warranty, we removed seats and bolted in a drag seat for the weekend, and bolted on fiberglass hoods, but when warranty issues came up, all of these items were replaced and the dealers did the work. The full on race teams didn't care , and they modified each and every car with no regard to warranty issues. That is what begs the question, what are you going to do with your car???? My suggestion to all, is to think of what you are going to use the car for, and how replacement of stock parts effect the structural safety of your car, your warranty,and your well being. All aftermarket parts are not built with safety specifications built in, some people find out to late that there car was no longer as safe after they replace certain body parts. I realize that some just want to personalize your car, but don't disregard your safety in the process !!! Be safe and think safe everyone, and don't let your quest to personalize your car, override your common sense. If this is going to be a race car with safety roll cage and other safety equipment provided , or just a show car, not to be driven everyday, I say play to your hearts content, but if not, and it's you everyday car, I would say, maybe some different wheels and tires, exhaust, suspension tweeking, custom tuning, and enjoy the car , your warranty,and your safety. GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!!!

[ichiban]

the crumple zones are build into the chassis of the car and the hood, so if u want the same safety, replacing the rear bumper, the front fenders, roof, adding a lip should all be safe. It's when you go into CF doors when it gets pretty dangerous. get T-boned and your a goner for sure.