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      10-08-2011, 09:28 PM   #1
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KW V1/V2 > M sport ?

Hey guys, I have been looking at KW V1 or V2's as a replacement for a while on my E87 but have kept the idea at bay due to the stock M Sport suspension being fun enough. I've actually been in two minds as to whether the KW kit will be much of an improvement over the M Sport factory kit. Part of the reason I bought the car I have is because of the suspension and how good it seems, but I have read a few coupe owners on here praise KW kits over their original M Sport stuff so I thought I'd put it out there and see what others thought.

Any info on price and what ride heights are achievable would be helpful too. So far I've seen K1's for the E87 at around 1300-1500 AUD (postage costs exclusive)

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      10-08-2011, 09:31 PM   #2
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Personally I think the V1 are so much better then the stock suspension! In term of quality of ride it really is not that much harsher compare to stock.

in terms of ride height I am currently as low as this and can still go lower.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=281
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      10-08-2011, 09:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Personally I think the V1 are so much better then the stock suspension! In term of quality of ride it really is not that much harsher compare to stock.

in terms of ride height I am currently as low as this and can still go lower.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=281
Thanks for that, and the pic too.Your setup is so neat! the colours work perfectly too. So you're saying the rear could come down a touch if you wanted to? the front is very low!
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      10-08-2011, 09:58 PM   #4
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Most aftermarket suspension will be a fair bit better than the stock we run. Especially if you get non run flat's as that makes it softer and a lot more floaty.
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      10-08-2011, 10:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Most aftermarket suspension will be a fair bit better than the stock we run. Especially if you get non run flat's as that makes it softer and a lot more floaty.
I hadnt even thought about how non RFT's might impact the handling, cornering, which is a fair point as I'll probably end up with them in the future, Im sick of my dash sounding like it wants to split in half when i hit a small ridge on the road.
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      10-08-2011, 10:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by One_M View Post
Thanks for that, and the pic too.Your setup is so neat! the colours work perfectly too. So you're saying the rear could come down a touch if you wanted to? the front is very low!
Both front and rear can still come down a bit more and I just change to non-RFT and what a difference it made. Not to mention my tyres grip so well now I love the Bridgestone S-04, I wonder how well it compare to the PSS since they are the bridgestone equivalent of it.

I think Micha3l from the forum is a lot lower then me!

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=45
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      10-08-2011, 11:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Both front and rear can still come down a bit more and I just change to non-RFT and what a difference it made. Not to mention my tyres grip so well now I love the Bridgestone S-04, I wonder how well it compare to the PSS since they are the bridgestone equivalent of it.

I think Micha3l from the forum is a lot lower then me!

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=45
That does look good, does he have V1,2 or 3's? Also something else I have to consider, I know the valving and adjustment options change, but does the lowering range change as well or is it the same for the V1, 2, 3.?
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      10-09-2011, 02:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One_M View Post
That does look good, does he have V1,2 or 3's? Also something else I have to consider, I know the valving and adjustment options change, but does the lowering range change as well or is it the same for the V1, 2, 3.?
I think he has v2. As far as I am aware the lowering range are the same across all model.
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      10-09-2011, 03:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
I think he has v2. As far as I am aware the lowering range are the same across all model.
Ok, thanks, will look into it.It appears everyone who runs them is happy so far anyway, which is good.
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      10-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #10
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as a fellow E87 owner i can vouch for the improvement a set of non-RFT & wider wheels makes
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      10-09-2011, 03:24 PM   #11
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KW Coilovers and M Sport Suspension are not comparable. Coilovers make a huge difference, even if you go with V1's.
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      10-09-2011, 05:51 PM   #12
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What many people have failed to mention in the past is.. that if you change tyres to the non rft's you are going to be driving a water bed on wheels.

i made this change and now wishing i hadn't. RFT's were the perfect set up with the m sport suspension on my E88... but a lil rough.


-Elee
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      10-09-2011, 06:05 PM   #13
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Seems fine to me but I'm on v1 so the stiffer suspensions helps I suppose.
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      10-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Trion View Post
What many people have failed to mention in the past is.. that if you change tyres to the non rft's you are going to be driving a water bed on wheels.

i made this change and now wishing i hadn't. RFT's were the perfect set up with the m sport suspension on my E88... but a lil rough.


-Elee
to be honest i think you have to be the first person i have seen on here say that
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      10-10-2011, 01:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
KW Coilovers and M Sport Suspension are not comparable. Coilovers make a huge difference, even if you go with V1's.
Ummm,

I am not sure why you guys are not exploring the BC Coilover option.

To be quite frank, BC Coilovers and the KW Coilover system "are not comparable."

The KW Variant 1, 2 or 3 are not even in the same league as the BC.

If you can tolerate a little more noise from the BC than perhaps that of the KW, I would NOT consider anything other than the very expensive KW "Clubsports" to be comparable to the entry level BC's.

If you look at my "build" spec list, it should be quite apparent I am not loyal to one particular manufacturer.

My first and foremost concern is the utilisation of the best product for the application, regardless of cost (within reason).

The BC's are a superbly engineered Coilover system and they are comparatively quite cheap.

As such they should be a no-brainer.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Cheers,

JD.
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      10-10-2011, 02:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD75 View Post
Ummm,

I am not sure why you guys are not exploring the BC Coilover option.

To be quite frank, BC Coilovers and the KW Coilover system "are not comparable."

The KW Variant 1, 2 or 3 are not even in the same league as the BC.

If you can tolerate a little more noise from the BC than perhaps that of the KW, I would NOT consider anything other than the very expensive KW "Clubsports" to be comparable to the entry level BC's.

If you look at my "build" spec list, it should be quite apparent I am not loyal to one particular manufacturer.

My first and foremost concern is the utilisation of the best product for the application, regardless of cost (within reason).

The BC's are a superbly engineered Coilover system and they are comparatively quite cheap.

As such they should be a no-brainer.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Cheers,

JD.
Wait, what!?!?!?!?!?! Did you just say that the only kw's comparable to base bc's are the clubsports? That is absolutely ludicrous. Have you ever seen shock dyno's of bc's compared to more expensive coils? The rebound/dampening adjustments don't actually change, improve, or just generally work. Bc's are great for the price, but with coils you get what you pay for. You are getting coils that are a compromise of price and quality.
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      10-10-2011, 02:29 AM   #17
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Have you driven on both KW V2's and the cheaper entry level BC's?

I have.

FYI,

with regards rebound/dampening on the KW's, full soft to full hard had little effect on the ride or handling characteristics.

However with the BC's, full soft to full hard was night and day.

I can arrange a drive in my car if you wish. (Oh wait, scratch that, I think you are in the US).

Anyway I suspect you will throw the piece of paper illustrating the "shock dyno's", right out the window.

Lastly with respect to getting "what you pay for", if you buy KW's over BC's you are getting ripped off.

How about you ask Peter of Advan Performance, what he really thinks of KW Coilovers.

He knows a thing or two about suspension componentry and the KW Variant 1, 2 or 3 would not be on his short list, to say the least.

Last edited by JD75; 10-10-2011 at 02:33 AM.. Reason: Typo
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      10-10-2011, 05:02 AM   #18
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With respect to the post made by "Sauce",

after speaking to DMM I suspect "Sauce" was referring to Buddy club Coilovers.

Where as the BC's that I am referring to, are as I have mentioned before, from Taiwan Bor-Chuann Enterprise Co.

I imagine that is where his criticism of the BC Coilovers stems from, as I am told the Buddy club's are built to a price point, with little consideration given to optimum performance.

Hey Sauce,

feel free to correct me if I am wrong,

however if so, WTF.

Last edited by JD75; 10-10-2011 at 05:18 AM.. Reason: Typo
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      10-12-2011, 09:07 PM   #19
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I've hear that the BC's are a Buddy Club copy...I've also heard about 3 people now complain of two things with them 1. They leaked, and 2. My back hurts.

I bought a BMW because I wanted a car that was engineered to perform well enough but still be comfortable. BC's come with pillowball mounts, which I've had before and absolutely hate, they undo alot of the good work BMW invest to avoid NVH, like double firewalls and state of the art steering/linkage design. I also dont want spring rates that annoy the shit out of me.

I'm not knocking your BC's, im just saying that a coilover that is a gun performer at the cost of a harsher ride and increased noise is not for everyone. I did all that crap when I was 19.

I had pillow ball top K Sports lowered very far down in my Evo 3, and it was absolute garbage on the road, anoyed me whenever I went anywhere. At the same time I also had AP's in my HSV VXR which was lowered about 80mm.

The Astra drove like a factory car, I couldnt beleive that the German built stuff could be that good, so I guess thats why I'm partial to the euro options now...and besides, more often than not, anything other than German is generally japanese market with 8kg/mm + rates and steel tops with spherical bearings. So the optons are slim.
It comes down to personal preference, some want a similar ride and a bit better than factory handling but with adjustment, some want outright performance, I'm the former.

And I'm not going into the science of shock dyno's but theres design and then theres 'design'. Some of these 'top shelf' monotube units are simply copied by people who dont even know why things are they we they are. They specify rubber over viton etc, lower grade oils, even the shim stacks on the pistons are sometimes made form lower grade cheaper steels. I've even hit a pothole (that wasnt that big) and had a top hat AND a shock rod bend, because it was cheap copied rubbish that looked just like the dearer option but obviously wasnt anywhere near as well built. Im willing to bet the components werent even heat treated properly, or at all.

Last edited by One_M; 10-12-2011 at 09:21 PM..
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      10-12-2011, 09:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Seems fine to me but I'm on v1 so the stiffer suspensions helps I suppose.
I actually have wondered for a while now if stiffer suspension and Non RFT's would actually make the setup worse, since the stiffer suspension will just transmit more load onto the tyres, that with now softer sidewalls, cant deal with it as well as the RFT's would have.
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      10-12-2011, 09:25 PM   #21
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The V1 kit can be just completely equal to the V2 and V3 KW coilovers, if the latter two are adjusted to the most balanced settings.

The V1 is perfectly balanced for comfort and aggressiveness. It just isn't as adjustable as the more "advanced" kits. I have the ST coilovers which are equivalent to the V1 set and the ride is very close to stock, but the body is so much firmer. Very little body roll at all in corners.. it stays very flat. Plus if you lower the car, you are lowering the center of gravity and improving the handling dynamics. The car just feels so much more confident in turns and in general.

I also have non-run flats. The ride quality is great. On small bumps or patches of rough road you do feel it a little more, but not much. This would feel like stock in a less refined or a more sporting type of car. However, on the big bumps or dips, the car feels better because there is much less "bounce" and the car rights itself very quickly. I haven't had RFTs and the suspension on at the same time, so I can't comment on that.

I also can't really speak for the BC coils because I've never personally ridden on any vehicle with them. But I know the KW coilovers are of the highest quality. The "balanced" setting (or the only setting for ST/V1) is very close to stock and much sportier than even the M sport (stock 135i, upgraded 128i) suspension. Unless I went with Bilstein or AST, I don't think I'd personally go with any coilover setup but the KW. And even then, I don't know if I'd take them over the KW.\
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      10-12-2011, 09:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One_M View Post
I actually have wondered for a while now if stiffer suspension and Non RFT's would actually make the setup worse, since the stiffer suspension will just transmit more load onto the tyres, that with now softer sidewalls, cant deal with it as well as the RFT's would have.
Nope, handling has definitely improved by a significant margin switching after switching. 1speedbike has described it pretty well.
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