More swirls everytime I wash

[TOGWT]

Originally Posted by AntonV

I go front- back on the parts of the car that face the sky. I go up -down on the sides

+1

(Forget what Mr. Miyagi was teaching the Karate Kid) circular motions will cause circular directional marks (swirl marks) and the reflected light highlights the paint films surface peaks and valleys differently.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by AntonV

I go front- back on the parts of the car that face the sky. I go up -down on the sides

I believe you are really supposed to follow the direction the wind flows over the car.

[135forthewin]

AHHH SWIRLS.

Just be glad you didn't make the mistake of getting a black one like I did haha. Looks great when perfect, but daily driving a black car can make life hell.

[BlackjackMulligan]

I purchased a leaf blower for the purpose of drying the car off, but found that it didn't completely dry the surface off, even with a fresh coat of seal. It would leave little droplets on the paint, which I'd have to use the MF on anyway, making the leafblower redundant.

[1bonna]

Thanks for the pointer... I believe the same applies when waxing.....

[TOGWT]

This is usually only used for the application of a wax and/ or sealant

Optimising light refraction

Apply product in ‘direction of airflow’ to vertical surfaces roof to floor and then left to right, on horizontal surfaces bumper to trunk and then left to right, over-lapping panels to ensure complete coverage. Then apply in direction of airflow, horizontal surfaces hood to trunk, vertical surfaces front to back.

This application technique affects the paints optical properties by optimising light refraction and the reflectivity of the bodylines and contours of the vehicle.

[EDUC8ED]

Something I have had to learn is that despite using all the recommended methods for washing, drying, etc., as well as purchasing the best products to do it with......my car may never look like it did the day I purchased it. So now I just do the best I can to keep it looking good and let the rest go, we can waste a lot of time, energy, and money on things we cant control. Just my .02

[TOGWT]

FWIW- Swirl marks (Halo-scratches), which, when the light reflects off the raised edges of the scratches, appear as circular scratches (hence swirls) but in reality they are made up of numerous straight line random scratches which are caused by washing, drying and everyday wear and tear. Some are surface marring and others can be rather deep into the clear or top coat.

[Bcav]

Originally Posted by 135forthewin

AHHH SWIRLS.

Just be glad you didn't make the mistake of getting a black one like I did haha. Looks great when perfect, but daily driving a black car can make life hell.

black looks sexy... when washed within the last 6 hours.

[jabwind51]

I second that any physical contact will cause imperfections even if it is very clean and shiny once done. My solution: Touchless car washes. None that I know in central nj but at school in ct there was a great one on route 3 off 66.

[TOGWT]

Touch less’ carwash
Cleaning requires; a cleaning agent (soap, detergent or a chemical cleaner) and friction. Without friction a very strong cleaning agent is required. Heated water breaks down water-soluble soiling faster as it reduces overall chemical usage because it reduces the surface tension of the fibre. Heat acts as a catalyst promoting quicker reactions between chemicals and the soil thereby minimizing dwell time.

Most so called ‘Touch less’ car washes today use a low pH acid as a first step, an alkaline to neutralize it and then high pressure water to wash cars. Hand washing (or ONR) is MUCH preferred, doesn’t use an automated car wash period, touch less or not

[jabwind51]

Originally Posted by TOGWT

Touch less’ carwash
Cleaning requires; a cleaning agent (soap, detergent or a chemical cleaner) and friction. Without friction a very strong cleaning agent is required. Heated water breaks down water-soluble soiling faster as it reduces overall chemical usage because it reduces the surface tension of the fibre. Heat acts as a catalyst promoting quicker reactions between chemicals and the soil thereby minimizing dwell time.

Most so called ‘Touch less’ car washes today use a low pH acid as a first step, an alkaline to neutralize it and then high pressure water to wash cars. Hand washing (or ONR) is MUCH preferred, doesn’t use an automated car wash period, touch less or not

I completely understand the paint benefits of non-automated bc I hand washed my car when home but several factors say otherwise: convenience, and lack of swirls when there are blower dryers. I personally would take a acid base neutralization reaction (making salt and water as products) once in a while if they were around. Plus, the technology is pretty cool from the inside of the car.

[airs]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

correct. I would challenge anyone who says their jet black isn't swirled to find a garage, shine a flashlight on the paint and take a picture. There are swirls there, take my word for it!

Man I feel so sorry for you JB owners. I can only imagine the pain you guys go through. Damn BMW soft paint!

[smpeck]

i'm looking forward to getting rid of my jet black 135i in the next few weeks. as someone said on here before, all you have to do is look at it wrong and you have scratches.

this week i had the windshield replaced. i told/warned/begged the guy... whatever you do, i don't care what mess you leave, do not wipe the hood of the car with a rag in any way. this will scratch the clearcoat. he looked at me like i was insane.

sure enough... last night i was getting gas, and under the light i could see all kinds of scratches from the top of the hood to about 12 inches down.

it's a losing battle with jet black. the clearcoat is simply defective/soft/ineffective. i've never seen anything like it. i've had my fair share of cars over the years, all of which i was able to maintain the paint and keep it looking nearly new.

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by smpeck

it's a losing battle with jet black. the clearcoat is simply defective/soft/ineffective. i've never seen anything like it. i've had my fair share of cars over the years, all of which i was able to maintain the paint and keep it lookily nearly new.

Yup, this /\ /\

My wife's previous car was a 2005 Acura MDX in the (in)famously soft Nighthawk Black Pearl. That SUV went through auto car washes, rough winters, normal bath towels to wipe down, etc etc. The paint held up nearly perfectly. I can't even begin to imagine what my 1er would look like if treated in the same manner, which is how 99% of normal people treat their cars.

[smpeck]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

Yup, this /\ /\

My wife's previous car was a 2005 Acura MDX in the (in)famously soft Nighthawk Black Pearl. That SUV went through auto car washes, rough winters, normal bath towels to wipe down, etc etc. The paint held up nearly perfectly. I can't even begin to imagine what my 1er would look like if treated in the same manner, which is how 99% of normal people treat their cars.

if you're curious to know what your 1er would look like treated in the same manner, the next time you're at your local BMW dealer, check out nearly any dark (Jet Black/Monaco Blue/Black Sapphire Metallic) late model Certified Pre-Owned/used BMW and you will have your answer. I have yet to see one that looks decent. Nearly all are covered with intense clearcoat scratches and acid rain/water etching. And these are cars that are 1-3 years old.

So, is it just us noticing this, being the enthusiasts we are, or is BMW noticing? Or does BMW care as long as we keep buying? BMW NA... are you reading this?

It's too easy for BMW to dismiss these issues as "environmental issues". As far as I'm concerned, BMW has a product/material issue they are not owning up to.

[bankerkys]

Originally Posted by smpeck

if you're curious to know what your 1er would look like treated in the same manner, the next time you're at your local BMW dealer, check out nearly any dark (Jet Black/Monaco Blue/Black Sapphire Metallic) late model Certified Pre-Owned/used BMW and you will have your answer. I have yet to see one that looks decent. Nearly all are covered with intense clearcoat scratches and acid rain/water etching. And these are cars that are 1-3 years old.

So, is it just us noticing this, being the enthusiasts we are, or is BMW noticing? Or does BMW care as long as we keep buying? BMW NA... are you reading this?

It's too easy for BMW to dismiss these issues as "environmental issues". As far as I'm concerned, BMW has a product/material issue they are not owning up to.

There is absolutely a product/material issue. I took my sapphire black 135i in for service, they ran it through their automatic car wash, and the car had so many surface scratches that it had to be professionally buffed. The car looked great, but after washing it one time, the paint looks like hell again. My prior CLK430 was 8 years old and the paint looked and held up better. This paint is defective.

[Red Bread]

I'll add a dissenting opinion. My Jet Black 1er has better paint than my Imola Red M Coupe, and better than the last few Audii and a Mazda I owned too. It's easy to swirl, but for a water borne paint, I'm actually surprised at how well it's holding up. The clear is pretty soft, but that also allows it to be corrected easily, unlike the useless Mercedes clear that is very hard, and much more difficult to correct. Overall, I'd say it's about as good as a non-metallic black finish can get with current regulations on materials. It's not nearly as nice as the oil borne paint on a buddy's Ferrari 328GTS, but no water borne paint is.

I've tried the leaf blower thing, but find it useless at actually drying the car. Starting the process and getting water out of crevices, great, but it still requires an actual wipe down of the car with microfiber. It's a great first pass, but not a final step.

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'll add a dissenting opinion. My Jet Black 1er has better paint than my Imola Red M Coupe, and better than the last few Audii and a Mazda I owned too. It's easy to swirl, but for a water borne paint, I'm actually surprised at how well it's holding up. The clear is pretty soft, but that also allows it to be corrected easily, unlike the useless Mercedes clear that is very hard, and much more difficult to correct. Overall, I'd say it's about as good as a non-metallic black finish can get with current regulations on materials. It's not nearly as nice as the oil borne paint on a buddy's Ferrari 328GTS, but no water borne paint is.

I've tried the leaf blower thing, but find it useless at actually drying the car. Starting the process and getting water out of crevices, great, but it still requires an actual wipe down of the car with microfiber. It's a great first pass, but not a final step.

You make a good point about the bad news/good news is that the paint is easy to swirl but easy to correct. The issue I ran into, believe it or not, is that even when removing the polish with a high quality MF, the paint was swirling AGAIN!! In fact, one guy over on Autopia.com couldn't even use anything to remove polish from a JB Bimmer he was detailing- he just left the polish on to be removed by the next step in the process. There's lots of write ups over there about how crazy this paint is. Here's a link:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-det...very-long.html

Here is a quote from the there: YOU TRY WIPING THE PAINT JUST ONCE AND THE PAINT WILL NEED CORRECTION.


I agree with the leaf blower point, aka it was pretty much a waste of money for me.

[Red Bread]

Interesting, I hadn't seen that post on Autopia. I'd trust a good pro to have decent quality towels, but that would be my concern in this case, that or hard water effecting how clean his towels are. I think folks are just seeing the mirror effect of black paint amplifying any swirls, especially if using lights to analyze the finish. I've had near perfect success with Menzerna polishes and Zaino Z2 that's held up to numerous washes before showing any visible swirls in natural lighting.

Is it perfect? Of course not, but it's not something I'd consider to be abnormal and it's equal or better in quality to any of the non-metallic black paints I've detailed on cars made with water borne paints, if anything, I'd say that it's better than most. Non-metallic paints show all defects, and I suspect that many of the complaints are coming from folks accustomed to metallic finishes.

[Esmallstii]

Originally Posted by EDUC8ED

Something I have had to learn is that despite using all the recommended methods for washing, drying, etc., as well as purchasing the best products to do it with......my car may never look like it did the day I purchased it. So now I just do the best I can to keep it looking good and let the rest go, we can waste a lot of time, energy, and money on things we cant control. Just my .02

[Envious Eric]

couple of things....

keeping a DD car 100% is not a good option, especially JB! 95-90% is more than suitable for a car that gets washed weekly or even two times a week. When you start getting super mad at swirls on your DD car, you are going to drive yourself insane. A weekend car or a show car, well that's a different story! Whats really sad though, I have seen a lot of show cars where a well maintained DD looks better than the show car!!!

Next, if you are really concerned, you need to figure out if its the washing part or the drying part that is inducing the swirl marks. Wipe dirt away in a left to right fashion, and dry the car in a up and down fashion. This way you will be able to follow which way is inflicting the damage.

another thing, you can always use the sheeting method and remove about 75% of the water from the car before even touching it with a towel. Then, take some QD and spritz the panel you are about to dry to add a layer between the paint and the towel, and add some gloss to the paint as well.

keep on a good routine/regimen
wash weekly
wax every 3 months
polish every 6
recondition every 12