N55 Vargas Stage 2 DBB Turbo Pump Gas Dyno

[Allen@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by PeteA

Nice work guys looks like some impressive gains. Good to see this sort of stuff in Australia too well done Luke for going hard!

Whilst the N55 is a brilliant and widely applied platform, its limited by tuning options. That really let's it down overall. I wanted a PTF tune for mine but instead I am happily running a 20/80 E85/93 octane map 5 JB4 instead.

PTF have you guys considered offering Pro tunes for the JB4 as well?

Unfortunately, with the JB4 in the mix it limits what can be done and logged on our end.

[BLU135i]

Originally Posted by Spoolin Montego

And which will certainly kill the DCT.

OP just a heads up unless you looking to buy a new tranny.

Why is it everytime I see your avatar I want to punch it in the face. Oh yeah that's right, because you never seem to have anything to contribute except for some negative smart ass comment. Don't just open the post, search for the bottom line HP and slam away. The OP was obviously on a lower reading dyno (as stated) and on pump gas. I am sure he is happy with the results as seems to be every other person who has read this post except you. Let me guess. You have the superior N54 with a manual transmission. Who gives a rats ass. To the OP and maker of this great product, good job can't wait to see more. We appreciate your hard work and dedication to us poor suckers with the shitty engine( I'm being scartastic there).

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Spoolin Montego

Personally, I'd be pissed if I got an upgraded turbo and I still only made 350whp

350 rwhp on a low reading dyno. But he started at 230 rwhp so he gained 120 rwhp. Now if you do the math for what N55 cars put out it'll be like this:

270-290 rwhp (what is normally seen as a baseline) + 120 rwhp = 390-410 rwhp.

On pump gas with no meth and no mix of E85. I can't wait to see what those numbers will be.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Looks good Luke! I wasn't implying you won't see any gains at all with pump gas, as you 100% will, just implying its more likely not worth the price to upgrade as you with pump you can see that much more than with a stock turbo. But this really surprised me, nice delta there! Looking forward to high octane and meth.

Sorry if I misquoted you, just wanted to show that there is still a decent gain on plain 98/93.
Next will be attempting e85 only. I'm not going to mess with race gas or meth.

Originally Posted by fcman

Wow, great numbers. Wonder how the DCT is going to hold up.

Good so far, and I use mine hard, tracking, launching, burnouts etc.

Originally Posted by Rowdy

So the vargas turbo is a bolt on? Or?

A fairly involved bolt on. Took my shop nearly 20 hours but it was their first time, so an experienced shop should be quicker.

Originally Posted by Spoolin Montego

Personally, I'd be pissed if I got an upgraded turbo and I still only made 350whp

I'm not.

Originally Posted by PeteA

Nice work guys looks like some impressive gains. Good to see this sort of stuff in Australia too well done Luke for going hard!

Whilst the N55 is a brilliant and widely applied platform, its limited by tuning options. That really let's it down overall. I wanted a PTF tune for mine but instead I am happily running a 20/80 E85/93 octane map 5 JB4 instead.

PTF have you guys considered offering Pro tunes for the JB4 as well?

I think two of the first dozen of these made came to Perth
Not too much you can do with the JB4, maybe a custom map 6. But my best results with JB4 was mix in about e40 and use map 5. It was fast but had some gearbox/drivability issues, hopefully you don't experience the same.

[PeteA]

Yeah that is a fair call. I have a manual so the clamping force issue won't be present for my application. I do love the auto tuning feature of the map5. Can stick whatever fuel quality in there, whatever temperate and whatever barometric pressure and it will tune accordingly.

Best of all worlds would be a flexifuel Cobb haha. Can't win them all! Wish we could get replacement ECU's for our cars like the 90's stuff could.

Thanks for posting this for us and for Vargas for the kit and for PTF for the custom tune. You're all pushing our platform forward nicely

[jayzF30]

I would much rather have a tune that properly does fuel and timing control as well as boost as it came from the factory than slapping on a resistor box like a JB which really isn't anything more than a boost controller. For me it will always be way more superior doing a proper flash tune changing parameters in the OEM engine computer than just lying to the computer with a JB. A number of guys have had their DCT transmissions start slipping because of a JB type tune that does not report real values to the transmission as it needs to trick the engine computer. You can fool the engine computer but you cannot and no one fools the transmission computer.

[one30five]

Originally Posted by Spoolin Montego

And which will certainly kill the DCT.

OP just a heads up unless you looking to buy a new tranny.

Let the negativity and naysaying begin Their are DCT upgrade option brother. one step at a time. and HP doesn't kill a tranny. its torque.

and when it comes to a DCT it is where the power is being made in terms of RPM. im not a genious about this stuff, but before I decided on starting my own turbo project I did some research and asked questions, instead of just taking a shit on everyone else progress.

nice work OP

[iuhutch]

Originally Posted by one30five

Let the negativity and naysaying begin Their are DCT upgrade option brother. one step at a time. and HP doesn't kill a tranny. its torque.

and when it comes to a DCT it is where the power is being made in terms of RPM. im not a genious about this stuff, but before I decided on starting my own turbo project I did some research and asked questions, instead of just taking a shit on everyone else progress.

nice work OP

^^^^ what he said

[one30five]

Originally Posted by jazze90

I would much rather have a tune that properly does fuel and timing control as well as boost as it came from the factory than slapping on a resistor box like a JB which really isn't anything more than a boost controller. For me it will always be way more superior doing a proper flash tune changing parameters in the OEM engine computer than just lying to the computer with a JB. A number of guys have had their DCT transmissions start slipping because of a JB type tune that does not report real values to the transmission as it needs to trick the engine computer. You can fool the engine computer but you cannot and no one fools the transmission computer.

JB4 is a good system for guys who are jst starting out and doing a mod at a time, and maybe never getting to FBO or turbos, etc. I have learned from some pretty sharp guys that what you are saying is true. but to keep things in perspective JB4 works for about 90% of guys doing minor to moderate tunes. A true flash is superior regardless of mod level, so don't take this the wrong way. But, I never thought i'd ever get to the level i'm at. If the OP is like me he may have started out thinking a jb4 and CAI was as far as he'd ever take it Looking back I wish I had gone Cobb from beginning. but that's part of the learning process I guess.

[BadM4]

Good numbers for pump gas cant wait to see what you get on e85. I plan on doing 100% e85 when the new hpfp pumps from vargas come out soon...what kind of boost did you make on that higher hp run? Ive gotten as high as 21.5;bs boost on mine. The week after working on my tune it got hot here in vegas so no dyno time till it cools down. I havent had any slippage on the dct. I love the new turbo it pulls hard to redline. It sounds so Mean on cold start my neighbor with an open header race car came over to see what i did to it.

[Curare86]

So when IS the e85 going in??

[Lmaiuri]

Originally Posted by one30five

JB4 is a good system for guys who are jst starting out and doing a mod at a time, and maybe never getting to FBO or turbos, etc. I have learned from some pretty sharp guys that what you are saying is true. but to keep things in perspective JB4 works for about 90% of guys doing minor to moderate tunes. A true flash is superior regardless of mod level, so don't take this the wrong way. But, I never thought i'd ever get to the level i'm at. If the OP is like me he may have started out thinking a jb4 and CAI was as far as he'd ever take it Looking back I wish I had gone Cobb from beginning. but that's part of the learning process I guess.

I think this is somewhat subjective based on what terry and the open source platform have been able to do for the n54/55. From a safety and true tuning standpoint, i agree that a dyno tune for these cars that run Rb's/Vargas are probably maximizing the potential of the platform. But the beauty in the simplicity of the jb4 to auto tune for e85 shouldn't be discounted. Jb4 should be viewed for what it is; and for a gaggle of transistors that make safe somewhat big power on these cars, it's pretty damn impressive. Add some knowledge of the n54 from a tuner standpoint, and you can run wild on the open flash tablet/ which is a free Cobb. I mean it's not secret that some of the fastest n54s run Cobb and jb4 simultaneously

That being said, from what I've read about RB and Vargas products being somewhat of a gamble with communication/quality/shipping; I wouldn't spend the money on tuning; install; and transmission upgrades for 30 more whp. But that's just me.

FWIW Dino dynamics reads low but nowhere near some of the numbers that are being speculated here. When my n54 was jb4ed/down piped/ and DCI'ed' it made 412/467 to the wheels with an E25 mix. I applaud the advancement for the n55 and understand the passion and vision; however the practicality of this whole situation has me scratching my head.


The debate over jb4 vs Cobb vs Vishnu is null in so many aspects. And LOL at stand alone DME for these cars. So many of us would be on our second or third engine/set of turbos with stand alone engine management.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by one30five

Let the negativity and naysaying begin Their are DCT upgrade option brother. one step at a time. and HP doesn't kill a tranny. its torque.

and when it comes to a DCT it is where the power is being made in terms of RPM. im not a genious about this stuff, but before I decided on starting my own turbo project I did some research and asked questions, instead of just taking a shit on everyone else progress.

nice work OP

I think the DCT is fine at this level, the torque pretty much the same as what I've been running for the last two years, it just holds it longer.

Originally Posted by Mybad135

Good numbers for pump gas cant wait to see what you get on e85. I plan on doing 100% e85 when the new hpfp pumps from vargas come out soon...what kind of boost did you make on that higher hp run? Ive gotten as high as 21.5;bs boost on mine. The week after working on my tune it got hot here in vegas so no dyno time till it cools down. I havent had any slippage on the dct. I love the new turbo it pulls hard to redline. It sounds so Mean on cold start my neighbor with an open header race car came over to see what i did to it.

Yeah I've run up to 21psi when tuning as well. Dialed it back to around 17/18psi tapering to 13/14psi at redline.

Originally Posted by Curare86

So when IS the e85 going in??

Not sure, looking at local dyno tuning options now.

Originally Posted by Lmaiuri

I think this is somewhat subjective based on what terry and the open source platform have been able to do for the n54/55. From a safety and true tuning standpoint, i agree that a dyno tune for these cars that run Rb's/Vargas are probably maximizing the potential of the platform. But the beauty in the simplicity of the jb4 to auto tune for e85 shouldn't be discounted. Jb4 should be viewed for what it is; and for a gaggle of transistors that make safe somewhat big power on these cars, it's pretty damn impressive. Add some knowledge of the n54 from a tuner standpoint, and you can run wild on the open flash tablet/ which is a free Cobb. I mean it's not secret that some of the fastest n54s run Cobb and jb4 simultaneously

That being said, from what I've read about RB and Vargas products being somewhat of a gamble with communication/quality/shipping; I wouldn't spend the money on tuning; install; and transmission upgrades for 30 more whp. But that's just me.

FWIW Dino dynamics reads low but nowhere near some of the numbers that are being speculated here. When my n54 was jb4ed/down piped/ and DCI'ed' it made 412/467 to the wheels with an E25 mix. I applaud the advancement for the n55 and understand the passion and vision; however the practicality of this whole situation has me scratching my head.


The debate over jb4 vs Cobb vs Vishnu is null in so many aspects. And LOL at stand alone DME for these cars. So many of us would be on our second or third engine/set of turbos with stand alone engine management.

Some good points here, I am a fan of the JB4 also, it just wasn't the correct option for me.
Also I think people overestimating this turbo. It doesn't put the N55 on the same level as a N54 with RBs, more like a N54 pushing the stock turbos hard. Which is fine with me, coupled with a DCT that still equals a quick car.

For reference this is a car with RBs on the same dyno.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994580

[Curare86]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Not sure, looking at local dyno tuning options now.

okay, well sort it out so I can copy you!
PTF offer a remote dyno tuning option don't they?

[Allen@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by Curare86

okay, well sort it out so I can copy you!
PTF offer a remote dyno tuning option don't they?

Yep, we offer remote dyno tuning.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I think the DCT is fine at this level, the torque pretty much the same as what I've been running for the last two years, it just holds it longer.


Yeah I've run up to 21psi when tuning as well. Dialed it back to around 17/18psi tapering to 13/14psi at redline.


Not sure, looking at local dyno tuning options now.



Some good points here, I am a fan of the JB4 also, it just wasn't the correct option for me.
Also I think people overestimating this turbo. It doesn't put the N55 on the same level as a N54 with RBs, more like a N54 pushing the stock turbos hard. Which is fine with me, coupled with a DCT that still equals a quick car.

For reference this is a car with RBs on the same dyno.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994580

I am not sure I agree with this quite yet. The N54 now has years and years of tuning under its belt for upgraded turbos, with all types of fuels etc. The N55 literally just had the flash tuning software released this year. I think the N55 still has a lot left to be found, I could be wrong, but we will see.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

I am not sure I agree with this quite yet. The N54 now has years and years of tuning under its belt for upgraded turbos, with all types of fuels etc. The N55 literally just had the flash tuning software released this year. I think the N55 still has a lot left to be found, I could be wrong, but we will see.

What's the main restriction on the 55's hot side? The manifold and frame, or the wheel choice? I'm surprised to see people tapering boost so much up top, so i'm assuming it's due to a serious lack of flow.

It'll be cool to see how far people take the N55. Hopefully it doesn't break for awhile now that good power is being pushed.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

What's the main restriction on the 55's hot side? The manifold and frame, or the wheel choice? I'm surprised to see people tapering boost so much up top, so i'm assuming it's due to a serious lack of flow.

It'll be cool to see how far people take the N55. Hopefully it doesn't break for awhile now that good power is being pushed.

The turbine housing is small but not that small, the stock turbine wheel is a serious restriction. Also a major problem are the stock actuators are extremely weak and get pushed open with any sort of back pressure build up, this is most likely killing boost up top as much as anything as else with the Stage 2 upgrade. Switching to a boost actuator might help, but then you have to tune it like a single N54 and most likely go to a MAC solenoid. We tried to twin port Forge actuator for a BW EFR as many of the parts between the 2 are the same, it didn't work well. All these things will come around we play with them more I feel.

[Curare86]

How did the e85 protuning go? You were doing it friday right?

[Nugget]

I wanted to try and get it done in one go and avoid logging on the road so I went to a local tuner to do it on a dyno.
He's has only done one BMW before but he got a N54 car working well on 100% e85.
Unfortunately he wasn't able to get very far with my car, so I have gone back to Pro Tuning Freaks.

[one30five]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I wanted to try and get it done in one go and avoid logging on the road so I went to a local tuner to do it on a dyno.
He's has only done one BMW before but he got a N54 car working well on 100% e85.
Unfortunately he wasn't able to get very far with my car, so I have gone back to Pro Tuning Freaks.

keep us posted. me and 5 guys in Minneapolis are waiting on upgrading n55 turbo. and at least two of us are DCT. I'm eager to see your progress

[Curare86]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I wanted to try and get it done in one go and avoid logging on the road so I went to a local tuner to do it on a dyno.
He's has only done one BMW before but he got a N54 car working well on 100% e85.
Unfortunately he wasn't able to get very far with my car, so I have gone back to Pro Tuning Freaks.

Have they done any revisions for you yet? Hows the hpfp handling the e85?