New here and stuck

[lib]

Originally Posted by notilloc

[...] can you put a bigger tires on the car or is it already to its max? Maybe a slightly wider tire up front to help cure a little bit of that understeer something like a 225/40 or even bigger?

I have 225's on the front and a few people around here have gone to 235's without a problem though it's close. Once you go wider than that it will still fit but you'll need to do some fender rolling and play with the camber.

Understeer is not something you should even think about at this point. You will not see it on the street and it's only worth spending money to deal with it if you are going to use the car as a regular track-day toy.

[ptack]

Depending on luck. mileage and how you drive, a used 135i can cost you anywhere from normal to expensive to maintain. There's too much variability to predict it. The car is not know for any major defects, though the N54 engine has occassional HPFP problems that BMW covers for 10 years. If you worry about such costs and are hard on cars, you should go with something different like a Honda or Toyota. BMW is a luxury brand so dealer rates and parts are high. If you get lucky, you'll never need to spend much, if you're unlucky or beat the car, you could pay several grand a year.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by ptack

The car is not know for any major defects, though the N54 engine has occassional HPFP problems that BMW covers for 10 years.

Shouldn't that read "The car is not known for any major defects EXCEPT the N54 engine has HPFP failures which can cause your car not to start or go into limp mode until BMW replaces the part which they have agreed to do as an warranty extension for 10 years or 120,000 miles." Oh yeah and it doesn't appear like they have a new part that is failure-proof.

Yeah no major defects on this car, just parts fail that are needed to make it go. But no biggie.

Source: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245241

[notilloc]

Originally Posted by lib

I have 225's on the front and a few people around here have gone to 235's without a problem though it's close. Once you go wider than that it will still fit but you'll need to do some fender rolling and play with the camber.

Understeer is not something you should even think about at this point. You will not see it on the street and it's only worth spending money to deal with it if you are going to use the car as a regular track-day toy.

Yea the car would see a lot of track days and if I like the car enough on the track I might race it too so the first thing on my list is getting rid of the stong understeer and getting it to a slight oversteer. I like em loose .

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by notilloc

I am pretty sure I can handle it I am just being stingy I guess but I was shocked when I found out how much my friend was spending on his porsche every year. I still doubt parts for the car will cost as much as his. For example my friend blew his clutch on the track and ended up having to dish out more than $6000 to get a new one in. That seems pretty crazy to me but if a bmw is going to cost that much for parts I will probably have to stay away because I am looking for a good track car that will hold up and not break every time I bring it to the track. Im not extremely hard on my cars but parts definately break when you start racing. My old s2000 went through rotors every week because of awefull brake cooling so I sold that and bought a kawasaki ninja zx10r and raced that and decided I didnt like it as much as cars and its a lot more scary so now I want a good daily driver and something that will do well at the track too. I also need a back seat and a somewhat comfortable ride and I think my best bet is the 135i. I just dont want to be put in a situation where I have to spend hundreds of dollars on parts every time I go have a little fun with my car. Is the 135i the right car for me?

If you're looking for a daily driver and you want it to be your track car, then being stingy about or worrying that maintenance will cost too much, indicates that maybe you should find something else?
I don't mean that in an insulting way. It's just that any car that will be pushed regularly on a track AND driven everyday is going to require a lot more maintenance that just a daily driver.

As a daily driver, a BMW isn't that costly to maintain. Synthetic oil costs the same whether it's for a Honda or a BMW. However, the BMW will need 2 additional quarts per change. At $7 per quart, that's only $14 more.
Oil filters are about that same for any car, maybe a few bucks more if you want the BMW filter. But, there might be some lower cost options.
Overall, oil changes, if you do them yourself, are not much more costly.
Plus, given that you have greater oil capacity you can run a little longer than engines with only 5 quarts of oil.

Brakes have plenty of aftermarket options that cost about the same for any performance car. Our clutches last as long as any, and that means a good long time. Brake fluid is the same as any other.
So, actual maintenance is not that costly. Repair is a different matter, as you'll probably need BMW specific parts, which do tend to cost more than say a Honda or Chevy.

Overall, these are solid cars with a couple of potential problem areas.
The HPFP luckily has a 120k warranty, so if it goes down BMW will replace it up to that mileage.
Turbo's can be a potential problem with any turbo engine. But, these are Mitsubishi turbo's, so you won't have to go to BMW to get those.
Check with Majestic turbo out of Texas for pricing. But, they should be a good deal less money than to source them from BMW.

I had a 1990 Laser/Eclipse. My OEM turbo went out at around 65k.
Dealer wanted about $1200 just for the turbo. Majestic has a better, larger 16G turbo, which uses the same physical housing, inlet/outlet, but larger flow capacity internals, and it only cost $600 from Majestic.
HUGE difference in price, and it was a higher performance turbo.

As you mentioned, non RFT tires cost the same for any car, so that's not more costly. This too, however, is a maintenance not repair issue.

If you're handy and do mechanical work yourself, owning a BMW isn't that much costly than any other car, in terms of maintenance.
BMW, Audi, MB, etc... have a rap as being very costly to maintain as miles pile up. But, that comes from the fact that most people have no clue on how to even change a flat tire, let alone change plugs, oil, brakes, etc...
So, they have to pay the higher hourly shop fee for these brands, along with then having to pay the higher premium for associated maintenance parts.

A legit question is one of "reliability", meaning how likely is it that a major component will require repair, not maintenance. In that regard, most "luxury" Euro brands tend to not rate as well as Japanese brands.
An S2000 is much less likely to have a major break down in comparison, while still giving excellent daily and track performance.
I'd venture that even a Z car has a greater reliability than a 1 or 3.

I think your best bet is to find a low mileage used 1 or 3, and get a CPO version for the extended warranty. Maintain it regularly and you'll probably be just fine.

[dreamingat30fps]

I agree having a daily driver as a track car is just asking for pain (especially on pricier car like the 135i). I track my 335i occasionally but it's by no means a track car. I put some better brake fluid in there and put put around the track on street tires just have some fun.

I would like to do more track events, but I would need a dedicated track car for that. A nice cheap Miata with $20 pads and $50 tires. That would be my track car.

[cvandenhaute]

Just to add my 2 cents but why not having a look at a Mazda RX8?
It is a fantastic track car (despite low torque and so-so power but the chassis and the handling make up for that), parts are really not costly (I even heard that an engine is less than $2000 to replace) and you can still use it as a daily driver. Plus the car is refined and well finished...

[nordique14]

As others have said, a CPO will get you 2 extra years of warranty. But that does not include maintenance.

You can buy an extended warranty package from BMW that includes maintenance. Might be work looking into if you are risk adverse and want know exactly how much maintenance will cost you each year.

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

how many burnouts do you do...??? every YEAR?

I should have about 8 auto-x events by the end of this summer, plus about 8k miles in just the summer...how much longer do you expect street tires to last? I've never done a burnout in my car, that seems like a total waste. Ideally, a second set for the track would be great, but I don't have the space for it.

Back OT-As mentioned 225 tires will fit on the stock wheels fine (I had this for a while), and if you get properly sized aftermarket wheels, you can probably squeeze something just a bit bigger.

For the maintenance, I do agree with a lot of the posts here, but I still feel even if you DIY, parts are more expensive, although sometimes the difference is minor. You can find good deals and third party replacements, but I feel there is always a "BMW" tax. Just for an example, since Hawk pads are mentioned. Hawk HP+ cost about $120 for a civic Si, same for an S2000, about $150 for a Mitsu Evo IX, and just over $200 for a 135i. (all prices just taken for example from tirerack). The pads on the 135i are bigger, but this is a perfect example of how maintenance, regardless of who performs it, will be more expensive on this car. According to realoem.com, the OEM front brakes alone are $294, and I would guess this is significantly higher than a typical japanese or american car. Not trying to scare you away, but just being realistic, as I see this on all parts for the car not just my example above. Aside from this, DIY is not bad on this car if you've done similar jobs before. There are some tricks to get things to work properly, and some different tools you might need (lots of Torx and E- bits), but overall it is not a bad car to work on in my experience so far.

Repairs are another story however. A windshield for a BMW is about 2k (or more depending on the BMW dealership), while another car can be just a few hundred. Labor rates are high, and reprogramming of the car takes a few hours usually, so in regards to repairs, these will be higher than a normal car as well (but probably not nearly as exorbitant as Porsche). The difference may not be enough to get frightened, but it is there.

Also, if lots of track time is in your future, you may want to reconsider as well. I think the car is great for HPDE, limited track outings, auto-x etc, but if you are serious, there are some issues with the car that will hold it back on the track (e.g. stock brakes and cooling). It seems very capable for short periods, but many experience overheating and brake fade on the track. I auto-x and daily drive my one and it is excellent for this though. It drives comfortably on the street, has lots of great features, and is still quite luxurious. On the auto-x it is very fun and can be a great weapon if you can drive (I can't yet, but I'm getting there).

Hope this helps in your decision making process!

Tim

[techlogik]

This discussion has gone away from the 135 or 335 it seems. I am looking to get back into either one of these. Seems you can get about a newer 135i for the price of a 2yr older 335i. Depending on options of course.

Also, anybody got input on tranmission? AT or Manual? I am going to chip the car, fastest cars seem like the ATs. Plus as you get older, I get tired of shifting and riding a clutch in traffic. PITA for a daily commute.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by techlogik

This discussion has gone away from the 135 or 335 it seems. I am looking to get back into either one of these. Seems you can get about a newer 135i for the price of a 2yr older 335i. Depending on options of course.

Also, anybody got input on tranmission? AT or Manual? I am going to chip the car, fastest cars seem like the ATs. Plus as you get older, I get tired of shifting and riding a clutch in traffic. PITA for a daily commute.

Wow, as I get older you get tired of shifting? I'll try to slow my aging process so that you can get the manual.

Actually, we're on topic, based on what the OP started the thread about.

He's not simply asking which car he should get, but how much it might cost overall with track use and maintenance in the long run.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Wow, as I get older you get tired of shifting? I'll try to slow my aging process so that you can get the manual.

Actually, we're on topic, based on what the OP started the thread about.

He's not simply asking which car he should get, but how much it might cost overall with track use and maintenance in the long run.

I suppose the cost issue has been pretty thoroughly covered. The difference between the two is nothing. Cost to maintain is the same.

Hey, drive 20+ miles in heavy traffic, and when you are in your 40s..you will get tired of rowing real fast in the heat/humidity.

I sold my 2003 SMG M3 about 2.5yrs ago, so I had the manual tranny with SMG features, it was nice and worked well, even in traffic.

I guess I really need to drive both. I like manuals, have had them most of my life. So it's either a 335i or 135i, or a used Caymen for me.

[Alex_bm]

I replaced a windshield some time ago.
Was quoted at the dealer 1700CAD including the install.
Got the same glass from an independant shop for 400 installed. I believe it's very close to any other brand.

Originally Posted by timhatimay

I should have about 8 auto-x events by the end of this summer, plus about 8k miles in just the summer...how much longer do you expect street tires to last? I've never done a burnout in my car, that seems like a total waste. Ideally, a second set for the track would be great, but I don't have the space for it.

Back OT-As mentioned 225 tires will fit on the stock wheels fine (I had this for a while), and if you get properly sized aftermarket wheels, you can probably squeeze something just a bit bigger.

For the maintenance, I do agree with a lot of the posts here, but I still feel even if you DIY, parts are more expensive, although sometimes the difference is minor. You can find good deals and third party replacements, but I feel there is always a "BMW" tax. Just for an example, since Hawk pads are mentioned. Hawk HP+ cost about $120 for a civic Si, same for an S2000, about $150 for a Mitsu Evo IX, and just over $200 for a 135i. (all prices just taken for example from tirerack). The pads on the 135i are bigger, but this is a perfect example of how maintenance, regardless of who performs it, will be more expensive on this car. According to realoem.com, the OEM front brakes alone are $294, and I would guess this is significantly higher than a typical japanese or american car. Not trying to scare you away, but just being realistic, as I see this on all parts for the car not just my example above. Aside from this, DIY is not bad on this car if you've done similar jobs before. There are some tricks to get things to work properly, and some different tools you might need (lots of Torx and E- bits), but overall it is not a bad car to work on in my experience so far.

Repairs are another story however. A windshield for a BMW is about 2k (or more depending on the BMW dealership), while another car can be just a few hundred. Labor rates are high, and reprogramming of the car takes a few hours usually, so in regards to repairs, these will be higher than a normal car as well (but probably not nearly as exorbitant as Porsche). The difference may not be enough to get frightened, but it is there.

Also, if lots of track time is in your future, you may want to reconsider as well. I think the car is great for HPDE, limited track outings, auto-x etc, but if you are serious, there are some issues with the car that will hold it back on the track (e.g. stock brakes and cooling). It seems very capable for short periods, but many experience overheating and brake fade on the track. I auto-x and daily drive my one and it is excellent for this though. It drives comfortably on the street, has lots of great features, and is still quite luxurious. On the auto-x it is very fun and can be a great weapon if you can drive (I can't yet, but I'm getting there).

Hope this helps in your decision making process!

Tim

[timhatimay]

My friends 335i with rain sensor, gray band, and all the goodies was quote several multi-thousand dollar quotes from the dealerships in the area. I think the independent was going to charge around 500-600. THe third party shop could do the job in 2 hours...the BMW dealership took 2 days. Maybe BMW is milking it, but I can't believe there is such a discrepancy and I wouldn't trust somebody rushing through, not curing the glue, and not taking their time on my windshield. The rain sensors and extras in the windshield due raise the cost of the glass. According to realoem, the parts alone for the "fully loaded" windshield is almost 600, so I don't know how a third party would use OEM glass and do the job for less than that. For modifications, its also more expensive on BMWs. You can get a full catback exhaust for many cars in the price we pay for some axlebacks. In a lot of cases the quality of products for sale for the BMW are great, but I still say every part for a BMW is more expensive (even if in some cases the cost difference is minor). If you buy a car for this price however, the costs are probably not out of line and costs can be kept somewhat low by using the suggestions in this thread. Just trying to be realistic!

Tim

[notilloc]

Originally Posted by techlogik

I suppose the cost issue has been pretty thoroughly covered. The difference between the two is nothing. Cost to maintain is the same.

Hey, drive 20+ miles in heavy traffic, and when you are in your 40s..you will get tired of rowing real fast in the heat/humidity.

I sold my 2003 SMG M3 about 2.5yrs ago, so I had the manual tranny with SMG features, it was nice and worked well, even in traffic.

I guess I really need to drive both. I like manuals, have had them most of my life. So it's either a 335i or 135i, or a used Caymen for me.

Im 22 so I am not too concerned about shifting. I still dont like automatics they are kinda boring and I feel much more in tune with the car when its a manual.

[notilloc]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

My friends 335i with rain sensor, gray band, and all the goodies was quote several multi-thousand dollar quotes from the dealerships in the area. I think the independent was going to charge around 500-600. THe third party shop could do the job in 2 hours...the BMW dealership took 2 days. Maybe BMW is milking it, but I can't believe there is such a discrepancy and I wouldn't trust somebody rushing through, not curing the glue, and not taking their time on my windshield. The rain sensors and extras in the windshield due raise the cost of the glass. According to realoem, the parts alone for the "fully loaded" windshield is almost 600, so I don't know how a third party would use OEM glass and do the job for less than that. For modifications, its also more expensive on BMWs. You can get a full catback exhaust for many cars in the price we pay for some axlebacks. In a lot of cases the quality of products for sale for the BMW are great, but I still say every part for a BMW is more expensive (even if in some cases the cost difference is minor). If you buy a car for this price however, the costs are probably not out of line and costs can be kept somewhat low by using the suggestions in this thread. Just trying to be realistic!

Tim

Ive been looking at aftermarket stuff and I really dont think it looks too bad. Compared to some cars out there the prices really are reasonable.

[notilloc]

I drove a nissan 370z and a 2011 mustang gt today I liked both of them. The mustang is still the traditional american car lots of muscle and no handling. I really loved the 370z, it feels just as fast as the 400 hp mustang and it drives much better than the 350z did. I never liked the 350z and am shocked at how much better the 370z is. I still need to drive a 135i, the dealership keeps saying they are getting two in but it seems like it is taking forever. I might just end up buying a 370z if they keep me waiting too much longer.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by techlogik

I suppose the cost issue has been pretty thoroughly covered. The difference between the two is nothing. Cost to maintain is the same.

Hey, drive 20+ miles in heavy traffic, and when you are in your 40s..you will get tired of rowing real fast in the heat/humidity.

I sold my 2003 SMG M3 about 2.5yrs ago, so I had the manual tranny with SMG features, it was nice and worked well, even in traffic.

I guess I really need to drive both. I like manuals, have had them most of my life. So it's either a 335i or 135i, or a used Caymen for me.

I am in my 40's. 45 in Oct. Thanks for reminding me btw.
Humidity in the Chicago area has been murder for the past month, or so it seems.

Yeah, I love manuals, but if my next car offers an automated manual ala DSG, DCT, or whatever letter set, I'm going with that.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by maxnix

There most definitely is a difference in fit between an OEM windshield and a 3rd paty windshield. Insurance always tries to make you get the 3rd party.

My 2006 A4 had a crack in the windshield.
State Farm insurance said it was my choice where to get it done.
I asked the dealer about parts and install.
They said they do not install windshields, but they do order OEM for the customers. An independent shield replacement company comes to the dealer to do the work.
So, Audi ordered the OEM glass, and the installer came to the dealer shop to install it.
The best part was that the Audi dealer gave me an Audi loaner for the day while the work was getting done.
Great service on that one. Cost was somewhere around $600, I think.
My deductable wa $250.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

My friends 335i with rain sensor, gray band, and all the goodies was quote several multi-thousand dollar quotes from the dealerships in the area. I think the independent was going to charge around 500-600. THe third party shop could do the job in 2 hours...the BMW dealership took 2 days. Maybe BMW is milking it, but I can't believe there is such a discrepancy and I wouldn't trust somebody rushing through, not curing the glue, and not taking their time on my windshield. The rain sensors and extras in the windshield due raise the cost of the glass. According to realoem, the parts alone for the "fully loaded" windshield is almost 600, so I don't know how a third party would use OEM glass and do the job for less than that. For modifications, its also more expensive on BMWs. You can get a full catback exhaust for many cars in the price we pay for some axlebacks. In a lot of cases the quality of products for sale for the BMW are great, but I still say every part for a BMW is more expensive (even if in some cases the cost difference is minor). If you buy a car for this price however, the costs are probably not out of line and costs can be kept somewhat low by using the suggestions in this thread. Just trying to be realistic!

Tim

2nd/3rd, non dealer, installers do this type of work all day long, more so than dealer techs. I'd easily trust them to do a great job.
As I posted, my Audi dealer doesn't even do windshield replacement.
Makes me wonder if BMW dealers do. I'll bet they have someone else come out an install it, and the dealer simply marks it up to get their large slice of the pie.

[notilloc]

Ive decided I am just gunna buy new and get exactly what I want. Thanks guys.