2011 Mustang GT

[BrokenVert]

^actually about half of mustang gt buyers are gettig the brembo package. Ford can barely keep up

[Michael A]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

^actually about half of mustang gt buyers are gettig the brembo package. Ford can barely keep up

I have seen at least 20 physical 2011 GT's other than the GT500's I have not seen one with the Brembos.

All I am really saying is that the standard run of the mill none track GT with 3:31's gears is a different car than the one's tested in the car mags. Definitely didn't feel like 412hp OR 100plus HP more than a 135i.

[roundel]

Originally Posted by RPM90

No corners cut on the 1 series?
Sorry man, but that's just fan speak.
Either you don't want to tell the truth, or you don't want to see it.
Our 1 has a lot of corners cut.
The suspension is the glaring tip of it. This is not a BMW tuned for enthusiasts setup.

I think a lot of 135i owners are so thrilled with the engine and power, that many ignore the ride quality, that can be rough at times. You don't get that in a 3 series.
Our audio systems don't even compare to systems from nearly a decade ago.
My 135i audio system is nearly as lack luster as what my E46 3 had in it in 2003, which was the same system in the 2000 model year.

Lots of people are having issue with the lack of quality with the leather used in these cars. My 1 leather is still pretty nice though. But, many owner are having fading, cracking and peeling.

The interior dash is decent enough, but "decent enough" shouldn't belong in a supposedly no compromise BMW.
Also, the design of the dash is done poorly. Take a good look at the edges of your dash, where it doesn't even meet the A pillar or doors in any cohesive manner. That spot is a disaster in term of design and style.

The center armrest is nothing more than a cover for an oddly shaped interior box. It doesn't adjust in any manner what so ever, and is useless as an arm rest.

The feel of the HVAC controls has no sense of quality. They could just as easily come from GM.
The expensive blue tooth interface is nothing more than 2 lines of phone book at a time, and requires numerous button pushes to navigate through.

Yes, I knew of these things when I bought my 135i. But, I mainly bought mine due to the mechanical goodness of the car, not for any modern goodies it offers in the interior. The suspension was something I thought was more in my head when test driving, but I only truly discovered it's lack of refinement once I owned it for a while.

I bring these things up because these are the types of things the new Mustang gets dinged for as well. However, it seems it's mechanicals are pretty well sorted this time out. And, it has a much improved interior, which is also where Ford cut corners just like BMW. However, the BMW costs more still.

Like most people, we are protective or our "family" while accepting and even defending flaws. Yet, we are quick to point out the problems with others.
I still have hope though. The 1 is a new model for BMW, so it will take some time to refine it. I hope the quite good sales of the 1 will show BMW that they need to spend some more refinement time on it with mechanical bits as well as interior design bits.

+1000

The most common complaints about the 1:

HPFP
CHEAP INTERIOR MATERIALS
SUSPENSION
SOUND SYSTEM
SUSPENSION IS A JOKE
RUNCRAP TIRES
BRAKE DUST
UNDERSTEER
INTERIOR RATTLES
THIRD BRAKE LIGHTS FALL OFF BEFORE LEAVING DEALER
TURBO LAG
LACK OF LSD
WEIGHT
CAN'T SEE STEREO CONTROLS WITH POLARIZED SUNGLASSES
IDRIVE
PRICE
STYLING IS POLARIZING
....

NOT BAD FOR A $45,000 CAR.

[michifan]

The most common complaints about the 1:

HPFP (Valid)
CHEAP INTERIOR MATERIALS (Give me a Break - Compared to the Mustang's VERY CHEAP Injected Plastic Interior?)
SUSPENSION (Compared to the Mustang?)
SOUND SYSTEM (Again)
RUNCRAP TIRES (Lower weight, no spare and better safety)
BRAKE DUST (Ford Brembos will have the Same Problem)
UNDERSTEER (vs Oversteer in the Mustang)
INTERIOR RATTLES (Again Compared to the Mustang? Give me a break)
TURBO LAG (Are you Kidding me?)
LACK OF LSD (Install it yourself)
WEIGHT (3500 Pounds and 5 Star Safety and Lighter than a Mustang)
CAN'T SEE STEREO CONTROLS WITH POLARIZED SUNGLASSES (Please)
IDRIVE (Again, Please)
PRICE (Its a BMW)
STYLING IS POLARIZING (And the Mustang looks like every rental car in Florida)
....

Seriously, take this to the Ford Mustang Boards. Everyone that bought a 135i could have afforded to buy the Mustang GT - but didn't. The Mustang is a fine car for the money, but if you try to compare it to the 135i you will fail. I still get Ford for A Plan, which is dealer invoice less holdback, and I still wouldn't' buy the Mustang over the BMW.

[NYC6]

Its funny the guy uses the name Roundel on this site. He really seems to dislike BMW's and comes across as a Ford site troll. Not not theres anything wrong with Ford but this creep offers nothing constructive. Look at his prior posts and it obvious what hes here for. He only here to stir the shit.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Its funny the guy uses the name Roundel on this site. He really seems to dislike BMW's and comes across as a Ford site troll. Not not theres anything wrong with Ford but this creep offers nothing constructive. Look at his prior posts and it obvious what hes here for. He only here to stir the shit.

Probably just out of community college and still living with his mom.

Ford will put more Mustangs into the rental fleet as they sell GTs. The GT500 is a halo car and most of the dealers are marking it up over sticker as they want Focus shoppers looking at it like a trophy. Half the GT500s will end up in the garage of the dealership owner or his kids - the rest will be bought by retirees that haven't looked past the Ford brand since their first pickup. It's no different now than 30 years ago.

[Tessio]

In another thread he says he has a 135i also but isn't driving it much any more because he's loving the Mustang. Valid, I'm stoked to drive it too, but I agree, it's getting odd that he's hanging around here this long crowing about the Mustang instead of over on the Mustang forum, where I'd be if I switched cars.

Maybe he's legit and needs some form of validation from us like a 135i ghost, or he's a kid playing with dad's CB radio cursing at the truckers, or he's a PR plant or Ford salesman working the competition's forums.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Tessio

In another thread he says he has a 135i also but isn't driving it much any more because he's loving the Mustang. Valid, I'm stoked to drive it too, but I agree, it's getting odd that he's hanging around here this long crowing about the Mustang instead of over on the Mustang forum, where I'd be if I switched cars.

Maybe he's legit and needs some form of validation from us like a 135i ghost, or he's a kid playing with dad's CB radio cursing at the truckers, or he's a PR plant or Ford salesman working the competition's forums.

thats my guess

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by plasar

RPM90, IMHO, you give the Mustang way too much credit in the interior quality department, and give the 135i way too little.

When I looked at a $55K Shelby GT, this is what I saw:

* leather with the feel and texture of vinyl
* uneven seams
* cut thread ends sticking out of seams
* a sewn-in "Airbag" label in the side of the front seats
* dash plastic is "Poland Spring water gallon bottle" quality

Some pics from previous post...

You can easily see most of these fails in the press pics posted. Never seen this in a 1-Series.

I'm not comparing the Shelby, I'm talking about the GT.
$55K, I wouldn't ever pay that for a Mustang unless they also included an updated/upgraded interior. I feel the same about a 1M too.
If BMW doesn't do anything to upgrade the interior then it too is a fail.

I don't fee the leather in a GT is that much less than our 1, but then, the overall cost is lower in the GT, so something somewhere has to be less.

Also, I thiink you give the 1 too much credit for the interior, regardless of any comparison to a Mustang.
I surely didn't buy my 1 for it's interior.

Since most of your criticism is about seats, have you seen the number of posts in the forum about the leather seats and how much lack of quality there is?
Take a look.
BTW, mine are holding up fine. It's been 1 year.
So, it seems there is a lack of consistency. That too counts for a lack of quality.
A sewn in tag doesn't bother me one bit.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Are you kidding me? If you want to talk about cutting corners, go buy yourself an e65 or e66 7 series. Peeling paint on plastic buttons and trim. Seat controls located in the wrong place. Buttons so cheaply made they sound hollow. Transmission problems galore. Doors that clink shut as if it was made with a tin can.

I don't know about what you are thinking about when you say BMW is cutting corners on the 1 series, but charging 70K new for an e65 with all of the above problems? That is what I call cutting corners.



I am not sure which audio system you have, but the H&K audio in the 2011 1 series rivals the one in my last 745i e65 M sport package. At least this one will not need the amp replaced 3 times as needed in the 745i.

I can only speculate how impressed I will be in a Ford stereo.




Get an Audi if design is your thing. I did and was thoroughly disappointed. Excellent design without a thrilling drive means nothing. I have learned my lesson the hard way. I am not defending BMW design choices, but have learned that BMW values other things being more important than just design.

Overall my experience thus far with the 1 series is pure bliss. After the atrocities commited by BMW on the e66 and e65, in a certain way BMW has redeemed itself as far as I am concerned in the cutting corners department.

Regards,
fancyfl1ght

In regards to the audio system, the base audio system is CHEAP.
In 2009 the base audio is better than what is now called the "base" system.
To get the HK you have to pay extra. The base system in the Mustang, no extra cost, is a LOT better than the base in the 2011, and better than the base in pre 2011 1's.

The pre 2011 base system is barely adequate for a car in this class.
On the highway with the windows down trying to enjoy the breeze and some loud music, can't be done with any decent clarity.
That's how I judge a systems ability, not sitting parked with the windows rolled up.
The 2011 base system is downright pathetic.

I'm pointing out my opinions, likes, and dislikes.
Your experience is yours. If you're 100% thrilled at every aspect of your 1, great. I'm knocking you for it.
So I don't get your defensiveness. It's not like you designed and built my 135i.

Overall, it's an adequate, not great interior.
Build quality is nice. I don't knock it as much as others have. I don't have the squeaks, crackles, and knocks that many others have.
The materials used are nice.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by michifan

Where do you see cost cutting in the interior? The plastic being used is exceptional, the leather in my seats is top grade and real wood. The door trim and all the dash trim are much more complicated assemblies than the injection molded Mustang. As a former car-guy, I really cannot tell where a more expensive material could have been used.

As far as run-flats go, it was a combination safety and weight decision - to our benefit. Runflats cost BMW more money than a spare and a jack - but the weight savings and safety improvement are significant.

I'm in the camp of liking the run-flats. I don't mind the firm ride and have already benefitted from two flats caused by bolts /nails on the freeway. I paid $600 upfront for the tire hazard insurance and did so with the knowledge that run flats are expensive to maintain.

BTW, the Shelby doesn't have run flats OR a spare. It comes with a mobility kit and a prayer.

I've already listed some.
You don't need me to repost.

Again, I did NOT list the RFT's as cost cutting.
For me, I just don't like them.

As far as weight, RFT's weigh more. A jack, lightweight spare, and wrench are not significant weight savings.
But, the added unsprung weight of the RFT's is detrimental to overall performance.
The only benefit, that I can see, is that you can drive 50 to 100 miles to get to somewhere where you'll have to replace it.
If you're out in an area where you have to drive farther than that, well, you're on your own, as you'll be testing out the RFT's mileage ability when flat.
But, this topic has been covered many times in other threads.

I swapped for a set of all season Conti's, because I live in an all weather area. And, I hate the BMW and Audi, though they are changing, don't offer an all season ultra high performance tire option for their sport packages.
After all, the tires are available from a number of makers, and they perform quite well in comparison. My all season Conti's have a smoother and quieter ride, are better in wet/rain conditions, wear better, are lighter, and cost less. The only thing is that there is a slight decrease in ultimate dry grip in the summer. But, I don't track so it's been a non issue.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by michifan

The most common complaints about the 1:

HPFP (Valid)
CHEAP INTERIOR MATERIALS (Give me a Break - Compared to the Mustang's VERY CHEAP Injected Plastic Interior?)
SUSPENSION (Compared to the Mustang?)
SOUND SYSTEM (Again)
RUNCRAP TIRES (Lower weight, no spare and better safety)
BRAKE DUST (Ford Brembos will have the Same Problem)
UNDERSTEER (vs Oversteer in the Mustang)
INTERIOR RATTLES (Again Compared to the Mustang? Give me a break)
TURBO LAG (Are you Kidding me?)
LACK OF LSD (Install it yourself)
WEIGHT (3500 Pounds and 5 Star Safety and Lighter than a Mustang)
CAN'T SEE STEREO CONTROLS WITH POLARIZED SUNGLASSES (Please)
IDRIVE (Again, Please)
PRICE (Its a BMW)
STYLING IS POLARIZING (And the Mustang looks like every rental car in Florida)
....

Seriously, take this to the Ford Mustang Boards. Everyone that bought a 135i could have afforded to buy the Mustang GT - but didn't. The Mustang is a fine car for the money, but if you try to compare it to the 135i you will fail. I still get Ford for A Plan, which is dealer invoice less holdback, and I still wouldn't' buy the Mustang over the BMW.

I believe he was enumerating things 1 owners have said about the 135i, NOT in comparison to the Mustang.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by michifan

Probably just out of community college and still living with his mom.

Ford will put more Mustangs into the rental fleet as they sell GTs. The GT500 is a halo car and most of the dealers are marking it up over sticker as they want Focus shoppers looking at it like a trophy. Half the GT500s will end up in the garage of the dealership owner or his kids - the rest will be bought by retirees that haven't looked past the Ford brand since their first pickup. It's no different now than 30 years ago.

OK.

Well, I've posted more than enough, obviously.

So, with the above post, it's clearer where this was headed from the get go.

I'm off to other more interesting threads.

[White1]

First of all, anybody on here that puts as much emphasis on the value retention of the vehicle at resale, as many are; is in my opinion not as much of an enthusiast as they make themselves out. If you want good residual value get a Camry. I never buy a car based on what it will be worth later on as a main factor, especially when it comes to performance cars. A car is never ever an "investment", unless you are one of the few lucky ones that bought something rare, a la 71 Hemi Cuda. Number 2, absolutely all manufacturers cut costs, BMW is not imune, my $30,000 128i didnt cost BMW $25,000 to make. Ive also like others have stated no spare, crap flat tires, the dash is hard to the touch with a textured vinyl covering.( actually the 2011 5.0 Mustang has a nice soft dash pad), i got the base vinyl(leatherette) seats which are super uncomfortable on long trips, and from other posts on here the Boston Leather is quite poor in quality, the 6 MT even with the ssk has long 1-2 shift, and the clutch has a huge ammount of travel in order to shift gears smoothly, and my personal favourite cost cutting tactic; the cheap winshield that chips if i even look at it funny...im on #3 thanks to instacracks from chips.
And number 3 is the fact that we are comparing two totally different vehicles. Muscle cars are all about raw power, and drag racing, thats what the Mustang does well. Sports cars are more so about handling at high speeds, that what BMW does well.I know a guy whom has a 77 chevy truck with a 1200 hp big block that will out 0-60 the crap out of any BMW ive ever seen, however it will never outcorner one. I dont think that anyone on here is gonna compare their 1er to a Hyundai Sonata, due to them being 2 different cars. Basically if i was gonna compare a BMW to a Mustang 5.0, i would be comparing horsepower to horsepower, which would put the $35,000 Mustang 5.0 into $70,000 M3 territory(im working in Canadian funds). The M3 is what i would consider the truly "better" car, however at double the price, without double the performance.
Its always a loosing proposition when someone goes into a dedicated forum, to ask if a rival car is better or not, so as far as im concerned they are both good values for their cost, and the deciding factor should be what one hopes to get out of the vehicle they are about to buy. I live in a place where the roads are straight and flat, so both cars are within my consideration for a next vehicle. For me whichever one seems the quickest will be the one i chose...C'mon M1 !!!

[thebiglubinsky]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Its funny the guy uses the name Roundel on this site. He really seems to dislike BMW's and comes across as a Ford site troll. Not not theres anything wrong with Ford but this creep offers nothing constructive. Look at his prior posts and it obvious what hes here for. He only here to stir the shit.

You guys are soo cheesy. The Mustang is one bad ass car & if it were out 7 months ago, I probably would have grabbed one instaed of my 135, which I do love. For the $$$, stang is hard to beat.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by thebiglubinsky

You guys are soo cheesy. The Mustang is one bad ass car & if it were out 7 months ago, I probably would have grabbed one instaed of my 135, which I do love. For the $$$, stang is hard to beat.

Reading comprehension isnt a strong trait for you I see.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by thebiglubinsky

You guys are soo cheesy. The Mustang is one bad ass car & if it were out 7 months ago, I probably would have grabbed one instaed of my 135, which I do love. For the $$$, stang is hard to beat.

All depends on what you want out of a car.

A Base 135i manual with the M Package (includes leather and a moonroof) is $37K

A Mustang GT manual with leather, glass-roof and the Brembo brakes is $37K (good luck finding that car on a lot, though).

Throw in $400 for the tune on both cars, and the BMW will beat the Mustang on any race course at any time.

[Michael A]

Originally Posted by michifan

All depends on what you want out of a car.

A Base 135i manual with the M Package (includes leather and a moonroof) is $37K

A Mustang GT manual with leather, glass-roof and the Brembo brakes is $37K (good luck finding that car on a lot, though).

Throw in $400 for the tune on both cars, and the BMW will beat the Mustang on any race course at any time.

I cant stress enough ... I had a 135i base M Sport and drove a 2011 GT w/3:31 gears NO track pack which means all seasons tires and standard brakes and I am telling you, handling and braking was OK. Acceleration was downright disappointing. I really felt that the motor took way to long to wind up into the sweet spot of the rpm range.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by Michael A

I cant stress enough ... I had a 135i base M Sport and drove a 2011 GT w/3:31 gears NO track pack which means all seasons tires and standard brakes and I am telling you, handling and braking was OK. Acceleration was downright disappointing. I really felt that the motor took way to long to wind up into the sweet spot of the rpm range.

But, but they port the exhaust sound into the cockpit. It has to be fast.

[Michael A]

Originally Posted by michifan

But, but they port the exhaust sound into the cockpit. It has to be fast.

BMW has done that !!!

[roundel]

Originally Posted by White1

First of all, anybody on here that puts as much emphasis on the value retention of the vehicle at resale, as many are; is in my opinion not as much of an enthusiast as they make themselves out. If you want good residual value get a Camry. I never buy a car based on what it will be worth later on as a main factor, especially when it comes to performance cars. A car is never ever an "investment", unless you are one of the few lucky ones that bought something rare, a la 71 Hemi Cuda. Number 2, absolutely all manufacturers cut costs, BMW is not imune, my $30,000 128i didnt cost BMW $25,000 to make. Ive also like others have stated no spare, crap flat tires, the dash is hard to the touch with a textured vinyl covering.( actually the 2011 5.0 Mustang has a nice soft dash pad), i got the base vinyl(leatherette) seats which are super uncomfortable on long trips, and from other posts on here the Boston Leather is quite poor in quality, the 6 MT even with the ssk has long 1-2 shift, and the clutch has a huge ammount of travel in order to shift gears smoothly, and my personal favourite cost cutting tactic; the cheap winshield that chips if i even look at it funny...im on #3 thanks to instacracks from chips.
And number 3 is the fact that we are comparing two totally different vehicles. Muscle cars are all about raw power, and drag racing, thats what the Mustang does well. Sports cars are more so about handling at high speeds, that what BMW does well.I know a guy whom has a 77 chevy truck with a 1200 hp big block that will out 0-60 the crap out of any BMW ive ever seen, however it will never outcorner one. I dont think that anyone on here is gonna compare their 1er to a Hyundai Sonata, due to them being 2 different cars. Basically if i was gonna compare a BMW to a Mustang 5.0, i would be comparing horsepower to horsepower, which would put the $35,000 Mustang 5.0 into $70,000 M3 territory(im working in Canadian funds). The M3 is what i would consider the truly "better" car, however at double the price, without double the performance.
Its always a loosing proposition when someone goes into a dedicated forum, to ask if a rival car is better or not, so as far as im concerned they are both good values for their cost, and the deciding factor should be what one hopes to get out of the vehicle they are about to buy. I live in a place where the roads are straight and flat, so both cars are within my consideration for a next vehicle. For me whichever one seems the quickest will be the one i chose...C'mon M1 !!!

I appreciate the informed opinion White1. But the last two paragraphs shows an almost naive or magical view from an obviously intelligent and thoughtful source. Everyone screams at the 5.0 as a straight-line 400+hp powerhouse, and that it is. But they can't kick it each time without the implicit and concerted agreement of all, or most, of the players. And while this person is agreeing that the 5.0 is drastically improved and closing in on the $65k M3 in .97 lat g's, 0-60 in 4.3sec, upgraded interior, nowhere do I sense outrage or the desire to stop the madness and take the steps needed to get these two cars to the track and decide a winner. Stock vs. Stock.

M1 vs. BOSS 5.0 next.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Please take you irrelevant posts to the Mustang boards and hope Hyundai doesn't dro pits DI 5L V8 into a Genesis Coupe.

It's already been spotted in testing.