switching struts left/right for increased camber

[redrum36]

This can be done on e36 and e46. Can it be done on 135i?

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by redrum36

This can be done on e36 and e46. Can it be done on 135i?

unfortunately, no. the strut mounts in the center of the 3 hat studs on the e82. unfortunate, since i did this on my e46 m3 and gained a bunch of camber.

[redrum36]

Yeah, I kinda figured that out myself. It spins in a circle so nothing there!
thanks
d

[redrum36]

I wonder if the e46 hats could be mounted on the 135 struts to get the camber?

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by redrum36

I wonder if the e46 hats could be mounted on the 135 struts to get the camber?

Now thats a Damn good question !!!

[DriveHard]

so i had to look..

Regular e46 mounts are the same as the ones on our e82's

M3 e46 mounts are the ones that are off set.. The bolt holes are the same but the overall plate initsself is larger by about 1/2" almost all the way around and a little more wher the mount plate goes oblong..

The M3 e46 mount is also taller overall. Not what we want...

Oh well..

[fourtailpipes]

not totally ready to sweep this one under the rug yet... bear with me here...

you say the e46 m3 hat is larger in footprint, which i'm assuming could mess with the potential movement within the slots in the chassis (or whether it would fit in the first place)... but if i recall correctly, the strut bearing was far enough off center on the e46 m3 hat that it could be rotated one position for about 2.5-3.5* of camber, and another position for even more! this has me thinking that loss of adjustability in the slots in the chassis could be fine if the end result were a significant increase in camber (without detrimental caster)

so you were able to confirm that the hat studs are spaced correctly and will fit in the slots in the chassis... how about the strut shaft diameter (will the bearing work with 135i strut)? and the spring seat? is that the same from e46 m3 to e82? thats the part i'm most skeptical of. this has me wanting a set of e46 m3 hats/bearings to play around with, but my e46 m is long gone.

[redrum36]

I actually have a pair of e46 M3 struts. I knoe the studs/holes line uop but not sure of the rest. I wonder if I can just replace the whole strut assembly! If I was more industious and energetic etc etc......

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

not totally ready to sweep this one under the rug yet... bear with me here...

you say the e46 m3 hat is larger in footprint, which i'm assuming could mess with the potential movement within the slots in the chassis (or whether it would fit in the first place)... but if i recall correctly, the strut bearing was far enough off center on the e46 m3 hat that it could be rotated one position for about 2.5-3.5* of camber, and another position for even more! this has me thinking that loss of adjustability in the slots in the chassis could be fine if the end result were a significant increase in camber (without detrimental caster)

so you were able to confirm that the hat studs are spaced correctly and will fit in the slots in the chassis... how about the strut shaft diameter (will the bearing work with 135i strut)? and the spring seat? is that the same from e46 m3 to e82? thats the part i'm most skeptical of. this has me wanting a set of e46 m3 hats/bearings to play around with, but my e46 m is long gone.

Take a look and you will see what i mean,

The shaft diameter on the e46m3 bearing is 1.6cm on the e82 is 1.5cm so although a 135 strut will fit into it, it will be sloppy.

The 3 studs are in the exact same position.. even the pin is in the same position.

The 3 studs are the same diameter / thread / pith etc

The height is different also by about 2cm .

the m3 mount is on the left ( bigger )

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

Take a look and you will see what i mean,

The shaft diameter on the e46m3 bearing is 1.6cm on the e82 is 1.5cm so although a 135 strut will fit into it, it will be sloppy.

The 3 studs are in the exact same position.. even the pin is in the same position.

The 3 studs are the same diameter / thread / pith etc

The height is different also by about 2cm .

the m3 mount is on the left ( bigger )

thanks for the photo comparison! the height doesnt concern me (that much) because i'm on coilovers, although it would be a loss of potential strut travel before hitting the bump stop. another important question is will the hat even fit up into the chassis or is it too big (in footprint)? i dont remember them being that big, but i guess i never saw the two next to eachother. if i remember correctly, there is (some) more room in the recess in the chassis for a bigger hat or plate... it was the slot that was the real constraint. i'll have to get an idea of how much space is really there.

the difference in the shaft diameter may be a non-issue, as the actual seat of the strut shaft in the bearing is conical, so 1mm difference in shaft diameter may not matter at all (more concerned with the diameter of the threaded portion extending through the actual bearing). do you happen to have an e46 strut handy to check whether the strut top nut fits from e46 to e82? if so, that part could be a "go".

Originally Posted by redrum36

I actually have a pair of e46 M3 struts. I knoe the studs/holes line uop but not sure of the rest. I wonder if I can just replace the whole strut assembly! If I was more industious and energetic etc etc......

that would be a great cookie-cutter solution, but it's a bigger task than i'd be willing to take on. then you bring in other variables like the native length and stroke of the strut, its damping capabilities, which spring do you then choose to use, is the lower of the strut the same diameter so it'll bolt into the knuckle (the e92 is bigger than the e82... the e46 may also be bigger) etc.

would you be willing to try swapping just the top nut from e82 to e46 strut to see if they're the same? that's an important piece of the puzzle in determining if the e46 hats will work.

[DriveHard]

Strut Nut

E46 Is M14 X 1.5-05

E82 Is M12 X 1.5-05

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

Strut Nut

E46 Is M14 X 1.5-05

E82 Is M12 X 1.5-05

that certainly throws a wrench in the works! you'd then need a short sleeve in the bearing and a robust washer with a workable outer diameter under the top nut. sounds like a mcmaster order. how about spring seat? i have a feeilng that could be another sticking point...

i know this all seems like a lot of work to avoid camber plates, but i have a feeling i can find a set of e46 tops for free, and would love for this to look stock (at least to the untrained eye) from the engine bay.

[redrum36]

But maybe the whole strut assembly can be switched?

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

that certainly throws a wrench in the works! you'd then need a short sleeve in the bearing and a robust washer with a workable outer diameter under the top nut. sounds like a mcmaster order. how about spring seat? i have a feeilng that could be another sticking point...

i know this all seems like a lot of work to avoid camber plates, but i have a feeling i can find a set of e46 tops for free, and would love for this to look stock (at least to the untrained eye) from the engine bay.

I know what you mean as far as "stock appearing"
I am also a fan of stock parts...

Ill see if i can build 1 of each example and see how it all goes together.. no promise's ... I do have to work you know LOL

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by redrum36

But maybe the whole strut assembly can be switched?

Im gonna guess that the weight difference and the different dampening and rebound will not be ideal for the 1er .... and that with trying to pick the right spring for the application..

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

Im gonna guess that the weight difference and the different dampening and rebound will not be ideal for the 1er .... and that with trying to pick the right spring for the application..

yea... that would be a project best left to the real suspension experts like HPA, who seem to be doing a lot with crosspolination of OEM BMW parts.

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

I know what you mean as far as "stock appearing"
I am also a fan of stock parts...

Ill see if i can build 1 of each example and see how it all goes together.. no promise's ... I do have to work you know LOL

no excuses... 3-day weekend starts in 3..2..1........ :-P

[DriveHard]

lol... VERY FUNNY VERY FUNNY...

Truley what do i need to do????

assemble one strut with spacers / cups / bumpstops / spring, and mount for each car and see what the difference is if i were to just "crosspolinate" the strut and spring...

is this correct ??? thoughts ???

[fourtailpipes]

basically just see if there's any combination of parts which would allow the e82 spring and strut to connect ultimately to the e46 m3 hat and bearing. the upper spring pad is a wildcard.

the first thing i'd try would be seeing how the e46 m3 top spring pad sits on the e82 spring. if the spring pad works, try building one strut assembly with the following parts to compare to a full oem e82 assembly

e82 strut
e82 spring
e82 lower spring pad
e82 strut top nut
e46 upper spring pad
e46 bearing/hat & washers

measure the total length of each assembly to the top of the hat, as well as the length of exposed strut shaft (basically, length of travel before hitting the bump stop)

if you have measuring calipers, it wouldnt hurt to also measure the e46 m3 strut outer diameter where it clamps in the lower knuckle. if it's the same as the e82, it may be worth taking these same measurements for a full e82 assembly versus a full e46 assembly to see if the whole thing could be swapped out, but again, i'm a little skittish to try this, as i'm not sure about how the spring and shock performance parameters compare from car to car.

if any of this works, then it's a matter of trying out the e46 m3 upper hat in the e82 chassis to see how it sits and if there can be a camber advantage.

not really a short order... enjoy your long weekend as a first priority!!

OR... you could mail me an e46 upper spring seat, bearing/hat and washers and i'll fool around with it and mail it back... none of the local dealers have these parts in stock for me to play with.