Tool Set?

[Bimmer-Bob]

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good all-around tool set. I'm a total novice, but I want to start doing simple things like tune-ups, brakes, etc. Eventually I'd like to get into more complicated stuff, but that's probably a few years down the road (Just to be clear, I'm not using the 1er to learn on). Anyway, I think I've settled on Craftsman as a good mix of quality and price, but there's so many tool sets out there I don't know where to start - I guess my problem is that I don't know exactly what I'll need. There are sets around $30-$40, but I'm afraid I'll grow out of them too soon - but then again, I'll feel like an idiot if I spend $300 or more on tools and end up using the same 3 or 4 pieces over and over again...any suggestions?

[mleskovar]

I know I'll get blasted for this....but...my advice for a "first set" is go for quantity. Buy a cheap set from some place like Harbor Freight Tools. Even a cheap tool is better than no tool at all and right now you don't know which ones you'll need. You'll need at least a metric set of open/box end wrenches and 3/8" drive sockets up to 19 mm and a short and long extension. Get a Snap On ratcheting screwdriver with the different bits in the handle so you don't have to buy a bunch of screwdrivers. Craftsman are good tools and they stand behind them for life. Usually you pay for finish with tools. People strip nuts and threads with $20 wrenches just as easily as with a $1 wrench. Auto parts stores usually have good inexpensive starter sets.

[raiyo]

dont buy cheap tools. you'll end up paying more than what you could get from Craftsman. I bought a set of generic brand tools, and they keep breaking piece by piece. That money could had went to some quality tools.

Start buying what you need, then keep adding as you go. That is the best route to go without paying for tools you won't ever use. If you grow out of the tools, its fine. Just buy more. You'll be visiting those old tools you bought later down the road.

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by raiyo

dont buy cheap tools. you'll end up paying more than what you could get from Craftsman....

No way, not even close. This is a decent set of sockets:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=35338

Originally Posted by raiyo

....I bought a set of generic brand tools, and they keep breaking piece by piece. .....

52 years of working on cars, I bet I've R&R more engines and transmissions than most home mechanics have done oil changes. All tools, no matter how much you pay, are hardened. That doesn't mean there's not some sets out there that are not crap. I've worn out both cheap and expensive tools at the same rate. I buy expensive because I appreciate how they look and feel, and I can afford it now

[rsjean]

Exept that improperly hardened or pot metal hardened any way - all snap like glass under pressure. Had way too many sockets shatter.

Originally Posted by mleskovar

No way, not even close. This is a decent set of sockets:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=35338




52 years of working on cars, I bet I've R&R more engines and transmissions than most home mechanics have done oil changes. All tools, no matter how much you pay, are hardened. That doesn't mean there's not some sets out there that are not crap. I've worn out both cheap and expensive tools at the same rate. I buy expensive because I appreciate how they look and feel, and I can afford it now

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by rsjean

Exept that improperly hardened or pot metal hardened any way - all snap like glass under pressure. Had way too many sockets shatter.

I've never had a socket shatter, regardless of its' cost. I've never had a wrench break, regardless of its' cost. I've worn out sockets and ratchets of just about any make. The ratchet pawls start slipping or not engaging and the sockets wear just from prolonged use. Usually tools break if they're not used properly. In fact, some of the old wrenches that use to come with cars and motorcycles are still in my use because they are so good. I'm not defending cheap tools, I lilke good tools like anyone else. But for a novice user a larger selection of mediocre grade tools is better than just a few really good tools. The right mediocre tool for the job is better than the wrong expensive tool. I knew this would be argued, but in some things experience counts and the OP is looking for advice. I would rather the OP buy good beer than good tools at this point, it will make the work go much better.

[JimD]

I've been working on cars for more than 35 years. Never professionally but often of necessity. Fortunately now I don't have to but I still do simple things like oil changes, brakes, other fluid changes. It gives me better control of the quality of the fluids and it takes no more time than taking it somewhere.

I have 30 year old Craftsman tools and newer Craftsman tools. There is a big difference. I do not think that current Craftsman are any better than Harbor Freight tools. My old Craftsman sockets are thinner and occasionally will fit something the newer will not. New Craftsman are thick like other inexpensive sets. So I buy Harbor Freight because the price is lower. I carry a tool roll in each of my two vehicles plus I have more tools at home. In the vehicle I carry a set of 1/4 and 3/8 sockets (metric, that is all cars use now) and a set of combination wrenches. Plus a few other things like pliers (slip joint are handiest), and a screwdriver or two (with lots of tips including torx for the bimmer), socket extensions, a wobble joint, and spark plug socket. Feeler gauges are handy sometimes and cheap. Make sure to get a 1/4 hex bit that lets you put 1/4 sockets on the end of your screwdriver - cheap way to get nut driver capability.

Expecially in cheap sockets, I like six point. Much less likely to round over a nut.

My recommendation is to google tool rolls, buy one, and then fill it up at Harbor Freight. There are nicer tools but for inexpensive stuff, they are fine. And their price is the lowest, at least when they have sales (which is pretty much all the time). I like their 3/8 ratchet that extends for more leverage. Extended it has enough leverage for lug nuts.

Get a 1/2 HF torque wrench. They go on sale for less than $20. A 3/8 is handy too and I also have a 1/4. The 1/4 goes on sale the least often.

Jim

[Evolution Racewerks]

We work on cars professionally and have both high end and low end tools (harbor freight). The differences is in quality and tolerance.

Harbor freight rackets suck. Period. We have broken the majority I have tried. The only harbor freight racket works good is the composite ones from Pittsburgh. Those are bad ass and cheap. Stay away from all others.

Sockets the harbor freight ones work and are decent. These are the work horse sockets we use because they are so cheap, when they get lost, I don't flip out. I do have snap on sockets but I tend to not use them unless it's on an important job or something that is torque on real good. They're expensive so I flip out when I lose them. Having both, I can tell you there is a difference. The tolerances (meaning how tight on the bolt) are better on the Snap On. This helps prevent stripping bolts. The harbor freight sockets are looser and thus more prone to stripping bolts.

Craftsman is a good compromise between tolerance and cost. I would recommend Craftsman over harbor freight for the general home mechanic (as since you do less jobs, less chance to lose tools). Honestly, Snap On is pimp but really not worth it for the regular home mechanic.

BTW, make sure you have torx and hex sockets. BMWs are littered with them and it's rare that you would do a job and not need at least one of them.

[rsjean]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

I've never had a socket shatter, regardless of its' cost. I've never had a wrench break, regardless of its' cost. I've worn out sockets and ratchets of just about any make. The ratchet pawls start slipping or not engaging and the sockets wear just from prolonged use. Usually tools break if they're not used properly. In fact, some of the old wrenches that use to come with cars and motorcycles are still in my use because they are so good. I'm not defending cheap tools, I lilke good tools like anyone else. But for a novice user a larger selection of mediocre grade tools is better than just a few really good tools. The right mediocre tool for the job is better than the wrong expensive tool. I knew this would be argued, but in some things experience counts and the OP is looking for advice. I would rather the OP buy good beer than good tools at this point, it will make the work go much better.

Makes me wonder if I store them wrong, use them wrong or what. It's not a rare occurance that my cheap (pep boys, harbor freight etc) sockets shatter. I say shatter because they dont rip out a sidewall they suddenly 'pop' under pressure and the pieces are small and sharp edged. It typically happens removing hard to budge nuts and bolts off of restoration projects and the like. I always soak the bolts in WD40 before but this still happens.

So I started going to Sears and paying way too much (in my world) for their premium grade sockets and don't have the probem anymore...

And I'm not knocking Harbor Freight - have gottem a lot of really great cheap stuff from them - like the aluminum jack etc...

[BrokenVert]

I have made craftsman sockets crack and sometimes explode. The good part about a craftsman part is if you break the piece due to normal use, they will replace it for free, for life.

If you plan on doing brake replacements, you will also need to take the wheels off. Buy a 3ft breaker bar, I have a 2ft and a 3ft and both have come in handy more times than i can remember.

I like to over do everything (its the engineer in me) so when I buy something, I buy something that will exceed the max load that I will ever put on it.

For instance, I use my dad's old motorhome jack (a 14 ton jack) To lift all of my cars. The jack has a 3 ft arm so I can comfortibly pump it up. I also use 6 ton stands. It just makes me feel safer, I dont like the flimsy look of the smaller "car" stands.

I have a full set of sockets and screwdrivers in both metric and english as I work on my Fords (Half the bolts are english, the other half metric).

I also have a full set of allen keys, torx heads aswell as hex heads.

One more thing that you look into is any specialty tools that you might need to get a job done. For some of the more involved jobs that ive done (ball joints and lower suspension pieces) there was a specialty tool set that I rented from autozone to get the job done, the job wouldve been very difficult without them.

Hope that helps.

[JimD]

I've rounded over the edges of nuts and bolts but I can't remember doing it with a six point socket. I've also broken bolts, but not sockets. I've also broken ratchets, but not HF. So I know these things happen. But Bimmer Bob said he wants to do the sort of things I do these days, oil change and maybe brakes. HF is plenty good enough for that.

I will do my third oil change event with my HF tools in a couple weeks. I've done more, it was just with other tools. I will do 6-10 cars and they won't all be very pretty. Two times ago I had to remove a drain plug with slip joint pliers (forgot the pipe wrench and didn't have the stud extractors either). Broke a cap wrench on an over-tight oil filter last time (wasn't HF). My HF tools work fine.

I don't think I've broken anything working on a car much less than 10 years old. I've overhauled engines and transmissions and replaced most parts of suspensions, maybe all. So it isn't like I haven't done much. And if I wanted to overhaul engines again maybe I would want nicer tools but I doubt it. If I was to do this every weekend or professionally I probably would buy some nicer tools (but not Craftsman). But for fasteners that are not rusted all to heck, and for vehicles that haven't been abused, you don't need as many tools and I think you are less likely to break things. The only thing working against BimmerBob is he hasn't done this a lot. So there could be a temptation to use the wrong tool for the job or something. That can also get you in trouble with less expensive tools.

I still buy Craftsman sometimes and have no problems with others who do. I just don't think they're worth the higher price you usually have to pay to get them. They might be the best of the cheap stuff but they aren't a premium brand.

Jim

[Bimmer-Bob]

Hey, thanks guys for all the suggestions. It's helpful to hear varying opinions from people who know much more about this than me.

I think I've settled on an inexpensive Craftsman set for now. I'm on an overseas military base and I found out we actually have a pretty decent selection of Craftsman tools for not too much money at the exchange. They don't seem to carry any other brand, actually - must have a contract.

I've never heard of Harbor Freight before - I guess I've never lived anywhere that they operated. I would check them out online, but shipping on anything other than a small number of tools sounds expensive, so I'm going to try and limit myself to what I can get locally for now.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice. Looking forward to a coolant flush and some new plugs in the wife's car for my first project in the next few weeks! (The oil was just changed, but I'll try that next time, too)

[HondaGoneRogue]

I'm a mechanic as well, I've used proto, kobalt, craftsman, snap-on, HF, you name it, I've used it. I've found that you can use just about any make of tools for regular car stuff. I've pulled a wing off of an F-16 with crappier tools than anybody has ever seen. bottom line would be to pick up the best you can afford at the time. So I would recomend a 200-300 piece set of craftsman (can't beat the swap out warranty) for 150 bucks. It should have just about everything you need to start off with. Then, you can pick up things not so common from HF as they will be used much less. A couple good specialty pieces are extending mirrors, extending magnet wands, "mechanical fingers", easy bleeder for your brakes, an LED light bar, all of these items can be found cheap at HF. I look for any excuse to buy tools. I did laminate flooring in my new house so I got to purchase a miter saw, circular table saw, etc. Heaven. Anyway, Happy Hunting!

Also, your base should have a decent auto hobby center. I lived there when I was stationed at Spangdahlem in Germany. They have great new tool boxes and the staff is knowledgeable on all the uncommon tools.