For those with track brake pads...

Xaeryan · 07-14-2011, 06:37 PM

Do they fit as snugly as the OEM pads did up front? My Hawk HP+ have a few mm of play in them on the fronts. Looking at them, they exactly match the OEM pad size *without* the thin metal "shim" mounted on it. Since the metal shim wraps around the sides of the pad backing plate, it adds to the size and results in the snug fit of the OEM pads. But I was told I'm not supposed to use these shims with the Hawk pads by their representative... however, I'm not totally convinced he's not just generalizing based upon most setups in which the shim doesn't wrap around the sides of the backing plate.

vividracing · 07-14-2011, 07:55 PM

You're fine without the shims.

larryn · 07-14-2011, 08:11 PM

Very much disagree... from somebody who had caliper piston failure on Hawk pads.

Xaeryan · 07-14-2011, 09:55 PM

So what about any of the other track pads besides Hawks, do they fit more snugly? I realize some say the backing plates of track pads are undersized a bit to allow for thermal expansion, but this seems a bit much to me especially for a light duty track pad, although I'm not a brake expert.

IGoFast1589 · 07-15-2011, 06:29 AM

Don't they stay in place after moving one direction anyways? If you go forward then reverse I can see how they will knock inside the caliper, but I think after that initial faint knock that would be all. I am no brake expert either, but shims certainly serve a purpose so I wouldn't just accept his word as the end all be all.

Focusedintntions · 07-15-2011, 08:25 AM

FYI for future purchase considerations...cool carbon pads come with new backing plates that can be transferred to other pads easily....

Xaeryan · 07-15-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

Don't they stay in place after moving one direction anyways? If you go forward then reverse I can see how they will knock inside the caliper, but I think after that initial faint knock that would be all. I am no brake expert either, but shims certainly serve a purpose so I wouldn't just accept his word as the end all be all.

Yes, you are correct in that they only make a large shift when first changing directions (forward/reverse).

Xaeryan · 07-15-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Focusedintntions

FYI for future purchase considerations...cool carbon pads come with new backing plates that can be transferred to other pads easily....

Thanks, good to know, although my OEM shims finally broke free of the pad backing plate after a track day of putting good heat to them.

HP Autosport · 07-17-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

Do they fit as snugly as the OEM pads did up front? My Hawk HP+ have a few mm of play in them on the fronts. Looking at them, they exactly match the OEM pad size *without* the thin metal "shim" mounted on it. Since the metal shim wraps around the sides of the pad backing plate, it adds to the size and results in the snug fit of the OEM pads. But I was told I'm not supposed to use these shims with the Hawk pads by their representative... however, I'm not totally convinced he's not just generalizing based upon most setups in which the shim doesn't wrap around the sides of the backing plate.

It really depends on how they were designed. If the pads backing plate was designed as the same exact dimensions as the oem ones, I would reuse the shims, otherwise you will not get a good fit and have noise issues.

We have found most Hawk front pads are okay to use without the oem shims, but some of the early production rear pads must be used with the oem shims or you get a really bad pad rattle.

larryn · 07-18-2011, 08:48 AM

Harold, do you have brake ducting done? I would not suggest using no backing plates on these cars, period. It was a very costly mistake on my part, not doing so.

If you have additional cooling, then it's possible that you can probably reduce the risk of destroying the ceramic pistons, but I did not have additional cooling, and did destroy the pistons... both front and rear. I assume the rear is due to the eLSD function, where the pads hammer the rotor, when the car is going very fast. At Watkins Glen, you are going 140mph+, heading into the Bus Stop, and that's where I felt the brake pedal pop towards the floor, as the individual pistons were crushing (powderizing)... NOT a fun feeling at 140mph...

Groundpilot · 07-18-2011, 05:40 PM

Larryn, your brake padal went to the floor at the end of WGI backsraight? My guess is you took a short cut and went straight. By the way after rebuilding my front calipers with the stop tech kit that you suggested i tested them at Pocono yesterday and happy to report that the result is great. After hammering the brake pedal from over 145 mph at the end of the backsraight and over 135 mph at the end of the frontstraight lap after lap after lap in 90F heat, the brake pedal was nice and firm, very consistent with no hints of fading. I should add that i run dtc70 pads front, dtc 60 rear, srf break fluid, titanium shims and power slot rotors.I really think that there is no need for BBK for occasional lapping if you run similar set up.

07-14-2011, 06:37 PM	#1
Xaeryan Lieutenant 38 Rep 566 Posts Drives: Sideways mostly Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hazleton, PA iTrader: (4)	For those with track brake pads... Do they fit as snugly as the OEM pads did up front? My Hawk HP+ have a few mm of play in them on the fronts. Looking at them, they exactly match the OEM pad size without the thin metal "shim" mounted on it. Since the metal shim wraps around the sides of the pad backing plate, it adds to the size and results in the snug fit of the OEM pads. But I was told I'm not supposed to use these shims with the Hawk pads by their representative... however, I'm not totally convinced he's not just generalizing based upon most setups in which the shim doesn't wrap around the sides of the backing plate. __________________ 2014 SCCA Solo - Modifications by Class listing
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07-14-2011, 07:55 PM	#2
vividracing 688 Rep 6,854 Posts Drives: E90 M3, F30 335i, F80 M3 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arizona iTrader: (14)	You're fine without the shims. __________________ Travis Williams Shop ALL BMW G80 \| G82 Parts Here! 480.966.3040 ext 318 Travisw@vividracing.com PM, Email, or Call Directly for aggressive BMW Member Pricing
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07-14-2011, 08:11 PM	#3
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Very much disagree... from somebody who had caliper piston failure on Hawk pads.
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07-14-2011, 09:55 PM	#4
Xaeryan Lieutenant 38 Rep 566 Posts Drives: Sideways mostly Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hazleton, PA iTrader: (4)	So what about any of the other track pads besides Hawks, do they fit more snugly? I realize some say the backing plates of track pads are undersized a bit to allow for thermal expansion, but this seems a bit much to me especially for a light duty track pad, although I'm not a brake expert. __________________ 2014 SCCA Solo - Modifications by Class listing
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07-15-2011, 06:29 AM	#5
IGoFast1589 Captain 49 Rep 654 Posts Drives: 08 135i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	Don't they stay in place after moving one direction anyways? If you go forward then reverse I can see how they will knock inside the caliper, but I think after that initial faint knock that would be all. I am no brake expert either, but shims certainly serve a purpose so I wouldn't just accept his word as the end all be all.
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07-15-2011, 08:25 AM	#6
Focusedintntions Colonel 105 Rep 2,696 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M-Sport :D Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	FYI for future purchase considerations...cool carbon pads come with new backing plates that can be transferred to other pads easily.... __________________ Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death… – Hunter Thompson
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07-18-2011, 08:48 AM	#10
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Harold, do you have brake ducting done? I would not suggest using no backing plates on these cars, period. It was a very costly mistake on my part, not doing so. If you have additional cooling, then it's possible that you can probably reduce the risk of destroying the ceramic pistons, but I did not have additional cooling, and did destroy the pistons... both front and rear. I assume the rear is due to the eLSD function, where the pads hammer the rotor, when the car is going very fast. At Watkins Glen, you are going 140mph+, heading into the Bus Stop, and that's where I felt the brake pedal pop towards the floor, as the individual pistons were crushing (powderizing)... NOT a fun feeling at 140mph...
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07-18-2011, 05:40 PM	#11
Groundpilot Banned 476 Rep 1,711 Posts Drives: 135I DCT , e92 M3 DCT, Audi A6 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: long island,ny iTrader: (0)	Larryn, your brake padal went to the floor at the end of WGI backsraight? My guess is you took a short cut and went straight. By the way after rebuilding my front calipers with the stop tech kit that you suggested i tested them at Pocono yesterday and happy to report that the result is great. After hammering the brake pedal from over 145 mph at the end of the backsraight and over 135 mph at the end of the frontstraight lap after lap after lap in 90F heat, the brake pedal was nice and firm, very consistent with no hints of fading. I should add that i run dtc70 pads front, dtc 60 rear, srf break fluid, titanium shims and power slot rotors.I really think that there is no need for BBK for occasional lapping if you run similar set up.
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