"It's the Mini, Not the One" (Roundel)

[drgonzo]

I know its not like this anymore, with Saabs being a GM whore now adays, but I drive an old 9000, and I also have an old Saab 900. Both were made back when Saab was Saab, and I will say that people who drive those old Saabs are a car cult not to be denied! I have been stopped in parking lots, at the gym, anywhere someone driving an old Saab will see mine and can have a 20 min. convo about the damn things, EASY!

Living in north east PA I dont see many BMW drivers out there, and the ones I do see are usually college students from Jersey who got the car as a gift from mommy and daddy (no offense to anyone from Jersey, but you know who these kids are too.) I am hoping however when I get my 1 (mid Feb.) other BMW drivers will behave like old Saab drivers and want to play show and tell in parking lots!

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by xbook

The MINI is a great, fun car. The only bummer I had with my '06 R53 was the build quality. It is a cheap car. I had so many repair issues with that car, that I swore I would never buy another MINI Product again. We still have 1 R53 in our family, and I drive it at least a couple times a month. It is such a fun little car. Compared to the 135, it is a much more in your face driving experience. Louder, more vibration from the engine, suspension is tighter, lotsa stuff stands out.

Totally agree with that. The 135i is definitely way more refined than the MINI. If I had the cash for a "toy" car to play around on the weekends, I'd buy a MINI. But for a day-in, day-out driver, the 1er is definitely a winner. (EDIT: Stock vs. stock comparison, that is.)

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by EspressoBoy

Good point. I think the next time I take in my car, I will ask them to set me up with a Mini. Or just do a test drive. I wonder if anyone has sold a 1 to get a mini?

EspressoBoy

Take the Cooper S for a spin. I tried a base MINI several years ago, and didn't get that same level of fun.

I rather doubt that many have traded a 1er for a MINI, though -- they're really aimed at different market segments. Again, I had fun with the MINI...but I would prefer to buy a 1er.

[G5Ti]

Some interesting discussion, but I feel compelled to point out two things:

1. This was a letter to Roundel, not an article.
2. My main point was more of the community feel of the 1-series owners rather than whether the Mini is a more fitting heir to the 2002.

In regard to the community aspect, I definitely see Mini owners as being insanely passionate. (Though I don't necessarily feel like I fit in much, perhaps because the Mini in the house is not my car.) When I had VWs, I felt a huge sense of community throughout multiple generations of vehicles. There was a sort of unwritten code that VW owners of tastefully modded cars (or special edition cars, or particularly interesting vehicles that were neither) would always wave, always talk, always commune.

With the Z3, our whole family felt a sense of belonging – though we did not participate in the Z3 homecoming events, to this day other Z3 owners wave, smile, and talk to us.

When I first purchased the 128, I received an insane level of attention. ("What is it? Which motor? How do you like it? What did you have before?") The car still gather looks and interest, but it tends to be from outside the BMW community. Really, 1addicts is the only real community I feel right now. I am planning, however, on attending the local BMWCCA meet (finally!) this month to see what the local chapter is about.

Now, to the point many of you have made: I don't think the Mini is the heir to the 2002 because it is too *conceptually* different from the 2002. Different intent, different market segment, different engine/drivetrain layout, etc. That said, the Mini probably more accurately represents the spirit, the frugality, the quirkiness, and the involvement of the 2002.

I think the 1 is the better car for a variety of reasons (mostly personal), but those of you who think the Mini is not a worthy competitor have certainly not driven one, let alone owned one. There are plenty of real-world situations in which the handling characteristics of the Mini will at least equal the 1, even though the 128 and especially the 135 will ultimately leave the Mini far behind (driver skill being equal).

And, to respond to another post on here, the current Cooper S is turbocharged. And, perhaps more relevant, not all 2002s were turbocharged.

[imdanomite]

i've worked on MINI...they're crap. period.

[Dave]

i think we can all agree the clubman mini is horrible.

i am with ach30... i like the older supercharged mini

[ptack]

[quote=tommy;319303]LOL - I'm sure that's what other BMW owners say about the 1 series. Pissing contest are so 1990s! (not to mention that it should be "it's a car from which you graduate", of course)

I think the only step up from a 135i within BMW is to a new M3 or M5 which is a serious jump in price. Gotta love that N54.

[AchtungF80]

Originally Posted by imdanomite

i've worked on MINI...they're crap. period.

Very insightful, devoid of details.

[gio]

Who really cares about the "spirit of the 2002". Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't give a damn about a 40-year-old car. I don't long to return to the cars of the past any more than I'd want to trade in my modern computer for an original IBM PC.

[Esmallstii]

OK,..here's my 2 cents, And my qualifications:

Ive actually driven a 76 2002 tii. Was my dads, and that was a good 25years ago, but still remember it enough. Grew up in 2002's (a 1972, 1974, and a 76')

My Wife owns an 06' Cooper S (R53)

I have an 08' 135i.

1. The Mini is DEF a closer driving experience to the old 2002 than the 135i. No question. Seating position, Raw driving experience, Greenhouse type Glass...etc
2. Mini is def a FUN car. Dont get me wrong,..I frikkin LOVE my 1er, but the mini is alot of fun as well. Just different, and a little more RAW. (bone jarringly solid suspension, supercharger whine, very touchy steering) Is nice for a change of pace occasionally. Still would take the 135 out 9 times out of 10 though. But when I do drive the mini I still like it ALOT.

Theres my speel,...take it or leave it.

Oh,..and Ive been to a couple Mini gatherings w/ the wife,....yep...they are an "interesting" Lot.

[yourfriend]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

I agree with the Roundel article, in the sense that the MINI may actually be more of a driver's car than the 1er. I test drove a Cooper S back to back with a 135i -- spent about 40 minutes in each, took them both on a route of my choosing and without dealer 'supervision'...and the Cooper S was more fun to drive than the 135i, felt a bit more involving, shifting gears to keep the power up (vs the 135i, where it didn't matter too much what gear I was in.) And the fuel economy (30 MPG vs. the 20 MPG in the 1er) was great.

Thing is, I just don't find its retro styling appealing. Especially that big old speedometer in the center of the dash. I found it annoying just after 40 minutes. And I'm not at all the kind of guy who wants to drive a car that screams, "Hey! Look at this! Isn't this a neat car?"

maybe you should've driven the 128i if you felt more involved by shifting the gears to keep the power up?

[imdanomite]

Originally Posted by AchtungE30

Very insightful, devoid of details.

FWD, shit engines, interior/exterior is ugly, way too overpriced.

[G5Ti]

Originally Posted by imdanomite

FWD, shit engines, interior/exterior is ugly, way too overpriced.

1. FWD works well for the Mini, both in packaging and handling. Also makes it a "safer" car for the masses to drive. I prefer RWD, but FWD certainly has its place.

2. I'm not a mechanic, so I can't comment on much except the Mini's engine seems to be as good as any other motor we've had in the family. I prefer the sound and feel of the BMW I6, but the Mini has surprised me many times. So far, it's also logged a completely 100% problem free 22000 miles in just over a year.

3. Interior/exterior is a matter of personal taste. The exterior is cute, the interior is a bit much for me. Others love it. Others hate it.

4. It's definitely expensive, but I'm not sure overpriced is the right word. The VWs I've owned are likely more "over-priced," especially when you consider the heinous amount of maintenance required over the years. Really, all cars are a relative bargain. If you gave me $50k cash and said "go build a car," I can guarantee you I couldn't build a vehicle as good as they Chevy Cobalt, let alone as refined and polished as the Mini. I doubt many could. (Yay for economies of scale, right?)

You may have valid arguments, but simply stating a point and assuming it to be fact with no supporting content (anecdotal or otherwise) makes it hard to accept your points.

[Yes2m3cs]

Well I have both in my garage but the 09 mini is driven by the mrs. Its a blast to drive but its no 135i. The turbo sounds pretty sick at idle, kinda wished my car sounded more like it.

We have the S model, I would not ever consider the base model, waaay tooo underpowered. The cooper S moves really good from a roll. It is a nice change of pace once in a while but I still love my 135 hands down.

We get a lot of compliments on the cooper, probably due to the bright red paint and black roof and black stripes...

I do like having 2 sweet cars to choose from :biggrin:




Brian

[xbook]

Originally Posted by gio

Who really cares about the "spirit of the 2002". Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't give a damn about a 40-year-old car. I don't long to return to the cars of the past any more than I'd want to trade in my modern computer for an original IBM PC.

Dude!!!! thank you so much for putting this into words. This is EXACTLY how I feel, but I have never been able to put the words together. you did it perfectly!

[Call]

I just had to wade in on this after reading so of the posts. I've owned my 135i AW since 08 Mar and have owned every MINI S variant from the initial 02-05 MCS, 06 MCJCW, 07 MCS (all supercharged) and the 08 MCS turbo. I still own an 05 MCS Cabrio (see picture below) and consider it the very best fun car I have ever owned...the best built of all the MINIs.

I am a member of the ATLMINIS club here in Georgia which counts some 500 members. We have no problem in getting a hundred plus together at the drop of a hat...and, yes, we are a very motley crew to say the least made up of people from just about all walks of life...we are like family and really enjoy each other's company; are always helping someone in the family get through those tough times we human's tend to get ourselves into; and, we openly promote driver education, autox, track days, modding to the very last penny we have; and, just over all go through life like our hair is on fire

The biggest difference I have found between the MINI crowd and the BMW crowd including more specifically the ONE crowd is when the MINI crowd gets together we talk about our cars & our lives; the BMW crowd talks mostly about their cars when they get together. With the MINI folks you never meet a stranger; with the BMW crowd it's mostly a gathering of strangers.

The bottom line for me is if I had to have just one or the other...it would be the MINI. Thank goodness I can afford both:wink:

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by G5Ti

So, this begs the question: do we let the Mini owners win? Or do we start to organize national gathers of 1ers to prove our awesomeness?

I would be down to road trip anywhere within 1000 miles for a road trip :biggrin:

[Noize]

I think a turbo MINI S with the limited slip option would be one heck of an autocross toy. At least with MINI branding, you don't have to have an //M badge for a freaking diff.

[imdanomite]

Originally Posted by G5Ti

1. FWD works well for the Mini, both in packaging and handling. Also makes it a "safer" car for the masses to drive. I prefer RWD, but FWD certainly has its place.

2. I'm not a mechanic, so I can't comment on much except the Mini's engine seems to be as good as any other motor we've had in the family. I prefer the sound and feel of the BMW I6, but the Mini has surprised me many times. So far, it's also logged a completely 100% problem free 22000 miles in just over a year.

3. Interior/exterior is a matter of personal taste. The exterior is cute, the interior is a bit much for me. Others love it. Others hate it.

4. It's definitely expensive, but I'm not sure overpriced is the right word. The VWs I've owned are likely more "over-priced," especially when you consider the heinous amount of maintenance required over the years. Really, all cars are a relative bargain. If you gave me $50k cash and said "go build a car," I can guarantee you I couldn't build a vehicle as good as they Chevy Cobalt, let alone as refined and polished as the Mini. I doubt many could. (Yay for economies of scale, right?)

You may have valid arguments, but simply stating a point and assuming it to be fact with no supporting content (anecdotal or otherwise) makes it hard to accept your points.

oh no, these aren't facts (except the FWD part). they are just my opinions. i can't argue that they're popular, i just can't stand them. everyone else seems to love the damn thing...

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

Poseur alert.

Either of you actually driven a MINI?

i have, my ex GF had one. it was really fun to throw around but the power was underwhelming. if you live in a city where you cant really open a car up then a mini would be great, but otherwise i dont see it.

the 1er is far from perfect, but you have to get into some twisties at WOT with some down shifting thrown in to really get it.
(with the radio off haha)
if thats not your thing just put your foot down at a green light and youll get a similar rush

[Call]

If you think the power is underwhelming for the MCS turbo you should try one that has a tuned suspension on a few tracks. I have and those vettes & vipers couldn't hold a candle to it. It was so funny watching them fly off the track...in my rearview
Nothing better than when you have that feeling when you and car become as one. I feel that way with the MINI & the ONE.

Call

[esses]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

Poseur alert.

Either of you actually driven a MINI?

Well it is odd that you would make a statement comparing the performance of two cars when all you did was drive your daily commute.

Once you take your 1 out to some more interesting roads where it does matter what gear you are in the difference between the two cars will be clear. Your MPG will also be closer to the single digit range.

As for your question, the answer is yes! Not an S though, a plain jane Cooper hardtop. It was modified for the track - full cage, stripped. Yes, it was a fun little car.

BUT if you want a cheap, lightweight, FWD to toss around get a Miata. Really. Cheap to mod, cheap insurance, great mpg. And you will eat Coopers for breakfast. Have you ever driven a Miata?