Missfires without codes?

TJ bmw135i · 02-06-2013, 02:27 PM

Help please.
Under >2/3 load at lower RPMs it feels like a missfire. I have the BT tool and no faults or shadow faults. I thought it might be the spark plugs as it has 45,500miles. So, I bought plugs from the dealership and changed them out.

NO difference on missfire, but improvement on the throttle response and idle. All searches of the forum keep indicately that the CEL would come on or it would give a code on missfire.

The car is 99% stock (cold air intake filters) - nothing else.

I am leaning toward fuel filter or one of the fuel pumps. It idles really smooth and if I accelerate at <1/3 throttle - no issue.

Since I am off of warranty - any ideas???

135Pats · 02-06-2013, 03:00 PM

Give it some WOT pulls and...damn I was going to say datalog, but you're not tuned. I think? BT can log, not sure how though. Are you giving it heavy load in D? If you're in high gear/low revs and suddenly give it a lot of load, the car won't like it, even if it's otherwise healthy and happy.

TJ bmw135i · 02-06-2013, 08:37 PM

It's a manual. Any gear anything more than 1/3 throttle= slight miss/hesitation. All old sparkplugs were even light brown and same wear - no black sections. Seemed about right for the mileage.

TJ bmw135i · 02-06-2013, 08:38 PM

Missing/hesitation continues, not just a 1x occurance at the initial WOT.

Colt · 02-07-2013, 09:56 AM

Mine started driving like crap but I kept driving it because it was my DD for a few, figured I had bad gas or something. Drove it home and parked it. The next day I turned it on, drove down the street (still driving like crap, hesitating when accelerating, etc) and then the engine light came on. Misfire on CYL6. Replaced everything anyway.

Guarantee it's a misfire.

Can't wait to get my car back today....not driving this car and just driving a civic LX really makes you miss it - for people that are getting tired of the car, go drive a civic for a week lol

135Pats · 02-07-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angerman

Mine started driving like crap but I kept driving it because it was my DD for a few, figured I had bad gas or something. Drove it home and parked it. The next day I turned it on, drove down the street (still driving like crap, hesitating when accelerating, etc) and then the engine light came on. Misfire on CYL6. Replaced everything anyway.

Guarantee it's a misfire.

Can't wait to get my car back today....not driving this car and just driving a civic LX really makes you miss it - for people that are getting tired of the car, go drive a civic for a week lol

I feel that way every time i get into the RX350 snooze mobile...what'd you swap out to fix the misfire? plugs?

Colt · 02-07-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135Pats

I feel that way every time i get into the RX350 snooze mobile...what'd you swap out to fix the misfire? plugs?

Swapped out all spark plugs, and just cyl 6 coilpack. Still misfiring. And the shop can't read the codes because of the JB4

BostonBeemah · 02-07-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angerman

Swapped out all spark plugs, and just cyl 6 coilpack. Still misfiring. And the shop can't read the codes because of the JB4

put in map 0

ErvGotti · 02-08-2013, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ bmw135i

Help please.
Under >2/3 load at lower RPMs it feels like a missfire. I have the BT tool and no faults or shadow faults. I thought it might be the spark plugs as it has 45,500miles. So, I bought plugs from the dealership and changed them out.

NO difference on missfire, but improvement on the throttle response and idle. All searches of the forum keep indicately that the CEL would come on or it would give a code on missfire.

The car is 99% stock (cold air intake filters) - nothing else.

I am leaning toward fuel filter or one of the fuel pumps. It idles really smooth and if I accelerate at <1/3 throttle - no issue.

Since I am off of warranty - any ideas???

Are you running good gas? Look up top tier gasoline. Try running Techron injector cleaner sometimes the injectors will get clogged at the tips if you've been running bad gas.

But to me it sounds like you probably have a good amount of carbon buildup on the valves. The sluggish feeling in the low RPM's, might feel like a misfire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angerman

Swapped out all spark plugs, and just cyl 6 coilpack. Still misfiring. And the shop can't read the codes because of the JB4

It's the injector

Colt · 02-08-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonBeemah

put in map 0

Yea I got that done finally. So far $700 in the hole and still not fixed yet gotta tow it to performance shop now for $280

135Pats · 02-08-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angerman

Yea I got that done finally. So far $700 in the hole and still not fixed yet gotta tow it to performance shop now for $280

It's misfiring to the point where you can't just limp it to the shop? Intense

Colt · 02-08-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135Pats

It's misfiring to the point where you can't just limp it to the shop? Intense

Been told by three different places they advised me not to if the car is running rough already, probably not a good idea to keep pushing it.

Debating if I'm going to end up selling the car when this is resolved or not..

TJ bmw135i · 02-08-2013, 12:32 PM

Traveling a lot for business, so I will put fresh shell v93 fuel and some injector cleaner mid-week. I kinda wish it would just throw a code so I could narrow down my approach. I stated 'hesitation' as some thread said it would really shutter hard on a miss-fire. Even with the miss-fire (assuming), the performance is not that far off normal.

TJ bmw135i · 02-08-2013, 12:55 PM

Still not sure why the BT tool isn't picking up the miss-fire as a code or shadow code???? That was the reason I bought it - to diagnose issues like this.

SteveAZ · 02-08-2013, 05:02 PM

Misfire isn't going to hurt the car short term...a couple different posters in this thread so....

If I had a BT scan tool, there are no codes, and it's only rough at low rpms...I'd do a few pulls to redline...if you have true misfires...you'll get a code within a few pulls and may hit limp mode. Pull the codes and go from there.

Angerman...is it running rough if you clear codes and drive normally? What JB4 are you running and what software rev? I had A LOT of these sorts of issues and sorted them out on my own. If you would like to try and work through this...feel free to contact me...if nothing else I can share my experiences and it may give you or your mechanic some things to look at.

Good luck

Ihave1 · 02-09-2013, 12:15 PM

I was getting a lot of shaking during acceleration when my car sat outside in the cold weather all day. Once it warmed it seemed better but I always got a vibration at higher throttle. I only threw about 3 misfire codes in 3 months of this going on. I switched the coilpack, then spark plug, and then finally the injector from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 and the misfire followed the injector. Just replaced the injector this morning and it seems much smoother during normal acceleration even once its warmed up. Could also be carbon buildup in the intake valves. You will need to be able to code the injectors to the DME if you attempt to switch it out.

TJ bmw135i · 02-23-2013, 03:26 PM

ok.. so now i have 6 new spark plugs and 6 new coil packs = no change. Next step was to look at the injectors. 5 were replaced under the TSB, so i looked at the part number on remaining original. It ends with 565 138-07. Looking at TSB, it appears to be in the range of the recall???? Time to call the dealership again and curious why it didn't get replaced with the other 5.

patsfan313 · 02-23-2013, 04:16 PM

similar thing was happening to me. Took it to the dealer and the 6th injector was leaking. They replaced them all, problem solved.

ktkilroy · 02-23-2013, 06:55 PM

I had a similar problem recently turned out to be an injector

TJ bmw135i · 02-25-2013, 08:22 AM

Has anyone had issues with the 'new' injectors -P/N 13 53 7 585 261 04-08 or has it only been the old P/N?

n54door · 02-25-2013, 09:42 AM

Change the injector. They all fail, even the new ones.

Also, im surprised nobody here mentioned getting the valves cleaned. That is an absolutely must at your mileage.

I had your symptoms. Injector six, plugs, and a valve clean fixed it up.

TJ bmw135i · 02-25-2013, 03:20 PM

I have the tools to clean the valves, just not the motivation until Winter is done. That is definitely on my 'to do' list for the Spring. Had them scoped - not as bad as the other's posted pictures. This is a DD and gets 1/2 highway, 1/2 city for 30 mins each 2x a day. Only 93 octane tier 1 gas. Maybe that helps or I just am lucky on that part.

02-06-2013, 02:27 PM	#1
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	Missfires without codes? Help please. Under >2/3 load at lower RPMs it feels like a missfire. I have the BT tool and no faults or shadow faults. I thought it might be the spark plugs as it has 45,500miles. So, I bought plugs from the dealership and changed them out. NO difference on missfire, but improvement on the throttle response and idle. All searches of the forum keep indicately that the CEL would come on or it would give a code on missfire. The car is 99% stock (cold air intake filters) - nothing else. I am leaning toward fuel filter or one of the fuel pumps. It idles really smooth and if I accelerate at <1/3 throttle - no issue. Since I am off of warranty - any ideas???
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02-06-2013, 03:00 PM	#2
135Pats Major General 456 Rep 6,478 Posts Drives: A few BMWs Join Date: May 2012 Location: Maryland iTrader: (3)	Give it some WOT pulls and...damn I was going to say datalog, but you're not tuned. I think? BT can log, not sure how though. Are you giving it heavy load in D? If you're in high gear/low revs and suddenly give it a lot of load, the car won't like it, even if it's otherwise healthy and happy. __________________ E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Other stuff...652WHP F30 N55 XDrive EBII
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02-06-2013, 08:37 PM	#3
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	It's a manual. Any gear anything more than 1/3 throttle= slight miss/hesitation. All old sparkplugs were even light brown and same wear - no black sections. Seemed about right for the mileage.
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02-06-2013, 08:38 PM	#4
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	Missing/hesitation continues, not just a 1x occurance at the initial WOT.
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02-08-2013, 12:32 PM	#13
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	Traveling a lot for business, so I will put fresh shell v93 fuel and some injector cleaner mid-week. I kinda wish it would just throw a code so I could narrow down my approach. I stated 'hesitation' as some thread said it would really shutter hard on a miss-fire. Even with the miss-fire (assuming), the performance is not that far off normal.
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02-08-2013, 12:55 PM	#14
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	Still not sure why the BT tool isn't picking up the miss-fire as a code or shadow code???? That was the reason I bought it - to diagnose issues like this.
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02-08-2013, 05:02 PM	#15
SteveAZ Captain 60 Rep 654 Posts Drives: 135i Cab Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Phoenix, AZ iTrader: (5)	Misfire isn't going to hurt the car short term...a couple different posters in this thread so.... If I had a BT scan tool, there are no codes, and it's only rough at low rpms...I'd do a few pulls to redline...if you have true misfires...you'll get a code within a few pulls and may hit limp mode. Pull the codes and go from there. Angerman...is it running rough if you clear codes and drive normally? What JB4 are you running and what software rev? I had A LOT of these sorts of issues and sorted them out on my own. If you would like to try and work through this...feel free to contact me...if nothing else I can share my experiences and it may give you or your mechanic some things to look at. Good luck __________________ 2008 E88--Fuel-It! Stage 4 LPFP & PI--PS2 turbos--JB4/MHD--FBO--662whp/604wtq 2011 E90--Fuel-It! S2BL LPFP and PI--PS2 Turbo--JB4/MHD--FBO--546whp/589wtq 2013 Mini JCW--Tune--DP--FMIC--a couple Fuel-It! goodies--265whp/320wtq 2013 F10--JB4/BM3 2015 F82--Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP & PI--PS2 Turbos-- JB4/BM3-FBO
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02-09-2013, 12:15 PM	#16
Ihave1 Private First Class 42 Rep 159 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NC, USA iTrader: (1)	I was getting a lot of shaking during acceleration when my car sat outside in the cold weather all day. Once it warmed it seemed better but I always got a vibration at higher throttle. I only threw about 3 misfire codes in 3 months of this going on. I switched the coilpack, then spark plug, and then finally the injector from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 and the misfire followed the injector. Just replaced the injector this morning and it seems much smoother during normal acceleration even once its warmed up. Could also be carbon buildup in the intake valves. You will need to be able to code the injectors to the DME if you attempt to switch it out.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-23-2013, 03:26 PM	#17
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	ok.. so now i have 6 new spark plugs and 6 new coil packs = no change. Next step was to look at the injectors. 5 were replaced under the TSB, so i looked at the part number on remaining original. It ends with 565 138-07. Looking at TSB, it appears to be in the range of the recall???? Time to call the dealership again and curious why it didn't get replaced with the other 5.
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02-23-2013, 04:16 PM	#18
patsfan313 New Member 3 Rep 23 Posts Drives: 2010 Alpine White 135i Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Uranus iTrader: (1)	similar thing was happening to me. Took it to the dealer and the 6th injector was leaking. They replaced them all, problem solved.
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02-23-2013, 06:55 PM	#19
ktkilroy 135i M Sport 6 Rep 23 Posts Drives: 135i M Sport Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (0)	I had a similar problem recently turned out to be an injector __________________
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02-25-2013, 08:22 AM	#20
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	Has anyone had issues with the 'new' injectors -P/N 13 53 7 585 261 04-08 or has it only been the old P/N?
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02-25-2013, 09:42 AM	#21
n54door Banned 87 Rep 808 Posts Drives: 09' 135i 6AT FBO - MHD Tuned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: DFW iTrader: (5)	Change the injector. They all fail, even the new ones. Also, im surprised nobody here mentioned getting the valves cleaned. That is an absolutely must at your mileage. I had your symptoms. Injector six, plugs, and a valve clean fixed it up.
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02-25-2013, 03:20 PM	#22
TJ bmw135i Private First Class 5 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Convertible Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portage, MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i Vert [0.00]	I have the tools to clean the valves, just not the motivation until Winter is done. That is definitely on my 'to do' list for the Spring. Had them scoped - not as bad as the other's posted pictures. This is a DD and gets 1/2 highway, 1/2 city for 30 mins each 2x a day. Only 93 octane tier 1 gas. Maybe that helps or I just am lucky on that part.
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