The Ultimate Stereo

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by whuts4lunch

you make fair points mineo

Do you have an idea of a good system that will run me under $2000 including install? The system that MusicarNW recommends is $3450 and thats before shipping and install. That's a lot to spend, especially right after I just spent a lot on the car itself. I suppose $3000 is my hard ceiling, but I'd really like to keep it more in the 2k range.

Not sure why he cant sell you something at that price range...I spent 2K on my setup with him (self installed), and am extremely happy. Of course I am now looking at spending more, but thats just cause I got the bug.

Ken's prices probably can't be beat given his expertise. In other words, you will save money going to him because he will sell you what you need, for your car, no more no less and it will integrate perfectly (I understand he is now using OEM connectors!). While he may not beat the lowest internet price on an individual piece, the total package will be a much better deal.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

There is no such thing as "underpowering". When you clip your amp all that happens is that it sounds worse and the average power delivered to the speaker increases. That's it. If that extra power is able to be dissipated by the speaker then NOTHING bad will EVER happen. Take a 100-Watt amp, connect it to a sub with a rating of about 300-ish Watts continuous and it'll take it all day every day. Clipping in and of itself is NOT a big deal. It sounds bad, but really, that's it. A lot of people don't understand what clipping really does so they just tell everyone underpowering makes you clip your amp and that blows speakers.

Doesn't the square wave cause by clipping result in excess heat which is really what kills a speaker. Not only does it sound bad but if the assembly can't dissipate the excess heat, that heat will eventually damage the assembly. I recall there is a much more technical way to describe what happens when you clip a signal and I think it has to do with the square wave resulting in the addition of a DC component into the signal but I can't remember off the top of my head.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Sure, in extreme cases, the speaker will move *and* *stay* in or out. Voice coil cooling will cease. Over time irreparable damage will occur due to heat.

But it will likely sound bad long before permanent damage is done, so one can back off the volume.

[quality_sound]

Incorrect. The SIGNAL will stop but because of the suspension on the speaker it will be incapable of making that stop. The only exception is when a speaker sees DC. In ANY other case the speaker will continue to move. The ONLY 2 things that break speakers are overpowering and exceeding the speaker's physical limits (overexcursion).

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Doesn't the square wave cause by clipping result in excess heat which is really what kills a speaker. Not only does it sound bad but if the assembly can't dissipate the excess heat, that heat will eventually damage the assembly. I recall there is a much more technical way to describe what happens when you clip a signal and I think it has to do with the square wave resulting in the addition of a DC component into the signal but I can't remember off the top of my head.

That depends on if that extra power is enough to exceed the speaker's thermal limits. Grab a 50-Watt amp and clip the piss out of it into any sub you can find. It'll play all day long until the suspension wears out.

There is NO DC component to a clipped signal. None at all. werewolf/lycan on DIYMA has a great thread with the science-y links.

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Not sure why he cant sell you something at that price range...I spent 2K on my setup with him (self installed), and am extremely happy. Of course I am now looking at spending more, but thats just cause I got the bug.

Ken's prices probably can't be beat given his expertise. In other words, you will save money going to him because he will sell you what you need, for your car, no more no less and it will integrate perfectly (I understand he is now using OEM connectors!). While he may not beat the lowest internet price on an individual piece, the total package will be a much better deal.

perfectly stated. 100% agree with you. Not a better route to go than via MusicarNW. And yes, Ken is using factory connections!!!

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Ken's prices probably can't be beat given his expertise. In other words, you will save money going to him because he will sell you what you need, for your car, no more no less and it will integrate perfectly (I understand he is now using OEM connectors!). While he may not beat the lowest internet price on an individual piece, the total package will be a much better deal.

I don't know anything about Ken, but I have to say that good, professional installation is worth it. There are so many little things that can go wrong, all kinds of electrical interference. Some of them are difficult for a layman to diagnose and fix but a piece of cake for a pro. Plus, I would say that the pro knows how a given system is supposed to sound. So there's a quality control step there. When you install something yourself, you can't be as sure that you've done everything right.

As someone else suggested, I would do the installation in stages if I didn't have enough money to get it professionally installed all at once. Maybe do the speakers this year and the amp next year.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

The ONLY 2 things that break speakers are overpowering and exceeding the speaker's physical limits (overexcursion).

Melt the voice coil wire, or rip something apart. That's it.

If the amp is too big, then you might melt it without hearing it sound bad. Tearing something in two? That's going to be audible before it happens, probably.

There are a lot of Pe ratings on inexpensive coaxials which are outright lies, and people have come up with stories to explain why those speakers' voice coils melt with less than their rated power. The actual story is, the box copy lies.