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      04-25-2014, 06:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafo1701 View Post
Hey how about this camera angle. From my sunroof with my Go Pro with an extender to get it so I can see the track.
That was the first setup I tried but it felt like the track view was too small and the rear view mirror was a major obstruction (the RSX has a smaller mirror). Thinking there's gotta be something in between that won't also interfere with my helmet. Outside the car like Kgolf might be the way to go, but you lose the view of the apex on right handers...
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      04-25-2014, 06:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
Just amazes me how different a discipline autox is compared to full on track driving.
The faster you are going the slower and smoother your steering inputs need to be. I think driving is driving and how abruptly you present your car to a corner is inversely proportional to speed of corner entry. I have observed that many beginning drivers need to be encouraged to speed up their steering inputs at slow (2nd gear) corners at the track and to slow down their steering inputs at faster corners. Of course many tracks don't have such slow corners.

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Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Yes Koni shocks would be OK on stock springs. If you think M-sport springs are pretty firm, stay away from Swift. I know people on forums say Swift springs are so great but I've spent time in a car with Swift springs and I thought they were WAY too firm for daily driving.
A firm ride is likely attributable to excessive high speed damping. That is what make the M-sport springs on OE shocks feel firm. Also, the rear of the 135i rides on the bump stops even at static ride height, meaning the supposedly linear rear springs are far from linear.

A dual duty car needs as a minimum to have single adjustable digressive shocks so that firm springs feel acceptable daily but can be tightened up at the track. Try any high-end sports car with adjustable suspension modes. The spring rate is constant but the difference comes from adjusting the damping. We can achieve the same thing manually with a single adjustable shock.

A shock that provides reduced damping at high shaft speeds (i.e. digressive damping) is key to smoothing out the fine sharp texture of daily roads. The OE shocks don't do this, hence expansion joints and speed bumps feel harsh.

Adjustable shocks on springs that are too soft encourage you to overdamp to get the controlled body feel you want but then they feel harsh because the transmissibility increases with increased damping. That can make you think your springs are too firm.

My suggestion would be to live with your tire wear for now - manage it by flipping your tires and by being a bit less aggressive (damn hard to do when you are chasing a Cayman or an M3!) until you can get an adjustable coilover suspension. Shocks with sport springs are an expensive half-measure that you will outgrow quickly if you track your car extensively.

By the way OP, good call on developing your car incrementally and not being in any hurry to lower it.
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      04-25-2014, 06:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
That looks silky smooth, exactly what you want.

My last event at Thunderhill I rode with one of our race group members who has a turbo charged Miata and I couldn't believe the steering inputs he could get away with. But that's what you get with a 2,000 lbs. car on track suspension and r-comps. 3,400 lbs. 1er on stock suspension and RFTs (in my case)...not so much.

Working on a mounting point for my GoPro that will let me catch my steering wheel in the frame too. So far I've had it too far forward mounted from the sunroof so all I see is dash. Used to be perfect in my RSX because you could see the track well, the steering wheel, and even my rear view mirror and what was coming up in it.

Speaking of the RSX (also totally stock suspension), I can definitely say that typical of a FWD car, it seemed like it wanted to understeer on entry, but if you just smoothly rolled in, it would set its weight and you could drive it on rails all the way to corner exit after that. In the beemer, I get that weight set and then the RFTs run out of grip and my DSC kicks on and...my lap times weep for Star Specs.
On FWD you really need the front to plant before you do anything or else you're asking for trouble. I drove a Focus ST a couple times and it needs front grip before turning.

Unfortunately, there is no good way to mount a camera, you're going to compromise somewhere.

BTW - I feel sorry for your car and its weight. I'm at 3053 lbs with 1/4 tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I was afraid of that.
Would shocks alone address the problem Im trying to solve though (reduce plowing and outside tire wear)?
No, you're going to need alot more factors (higher spring rate, shocks, camber...etc) to avoid outside wear.

For reference, I'm at #400 fronts (which are relatively soft in the game of springs) with TCK DA Shocks at -3* camber and still getting outside wear. I'm actually going to -3.5* on the car.

BMWs chew through front tires, you will never eliminate this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jafo1701 View Post
Hey how about this camera angle. From my sunroof with my Go Pro with an extender to get it so I can see the track.

Good camera angle, but I don't have sunroofs on the Z4M or my 128i

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
That was the first setup I tried but it felt like the track view was too small and the rear view mirror was a major obstruction (the RSX has a smaller mirror). Thinking there's gotta be something in between that won't also interfere with my helmet. Outside the car like Kgolf might be the way to go, but you lose the view of the apex on right handers...
Here is my set-up on the 128i. Camera could probably be lower to look out the windshield easier.



I typically run an external mic to the exhaust, but I didn't have batteries this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
The faster you are going the slower and smoother your steering inputs need to be. I think driving is driving and how abruptly you present your car to a corner is inversely proportional to speed of corner entry. I have observed that many beginning drivers need to be encouraged to speed up their steering inputs at slow (2nd gear) corners at the track and to slow down their steering inputs at faster corners. Of course many tracks don't have such slow corners.



A firm ride is likely attributable to excessive high speed damping. That is what make the M-sport springs on OE shocks feel firm. Also, the rear of the 135i rides on the bump stops even at static ride height, meaning the supposedly linear rear springs are far from linear.

A dual duty car needs as a minimum to have single adjustable digressive shocks so that firm springs feel acceptable daily but can be tightened up at the track. Try any high-end sports car with adjustable suspension modes. The spring rate is constant but the difference comes from adjusting the damping. We can achieve the same thing manually with a single adjustable shock.

A shock that provides reduced damping at high shaft speeds (i.e. digressive damping) is key to smoothing out the fine sharp texture of daily roads. The OE shocks don't do this, hence expansion joints and speed bumps feel harsh.

Adjustable shocks on springs that are too soft encourage you to overdamp to get the controlled body feel you want but then they feel harsh because the transmissibility increases with increased damping. That can make you think your springs are too firm.

My suggestion would be to live with your tire wear for now - manage it by flipping your tires and by being a bit less aggressive (damn hard to do when you are chasing a Cayman or an M3!) until you can get an adjustable coilover suspension. Shocks with sport springs are an expensive half-measure that you will outgrow quickly if you track your car extensively.

By the way OP, good call on developing your car incrementally and not being in any hurry to lower it.
Nailed it on the head. OP - Educate yourself, and buy once, IMO.

BTW, with #400 fronts, #700 rears...the car is just a bit stiffer than M Sport.
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      04-27-2014, 09:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I was afraid of that.
Would shocks alone address the problem Im trying to solve though (reduce plowing and outside tire wear)?
If you're really plowing as much as you say you are I think you should save up for a 17x8.5" 245 or 255 square fitment. That's sorta surprising though because I recently met a member here running 235/255 and everything else stock and his entry into corners looked good. You only saw the effects of the stock suspension during quick transitions where the car didn't look settled. How's your entry speed on these corners relative to others? If you're going in that much hotter maybe try slowing down a tad so you're not overloading the scrub angle. You have any videos?
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      04-28-2014, 10:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
If you're really plowing as much as you say you are I think you should save up for a 17x8.5" 245 or 255 square fitment. That's sorta surprising though because I recently met a member here running 235/255 and everything else stock and his entry into corners looked good. You only saw the effects of the stock suspension during quick transitions where the car didn't look settled. How's your entry speed on these corners relative to others? If you're going in that much hotter maybe try slowing down a tad so you're not overloading the scrub angle. You have any videos?
I think I might have figured out part of the problem after my 2-day AISA driving school last week-end at Autodrome St Eustache.

It rained all day on the 1st day, which helped work on the race line, and smoothness of inputs to the car. My RE-11's were beyond the wear bar in the front (no tread left on out half of the tire), and at the wear bar in the rear. It made it more challenging to control the car and DSC kicked in often. I was humbled by letting every participant pass me that day.

The car was hydroplaning and needed more traction, but it was neutral. At these lower speeds, and with lack of traction, understeering was not as much noticeable, but oversteer was. I had a chance to discuss about my issue with different instructors that sat in the car, and mentioned I was running -3.2* camber in the front. He mentioned that with that much camber, and little traction in the wet, I was effectively reducing the front tire contact patch, and that I should try reducing my camber, or lowering my front+rear tire pressure to 30 PSI hot. I lowered the pressure, did not change the camber, but did not notice a big improvement.

The next day, was an eye opener. Conditions were much better and the track got dry. This was my first track event on asphalt pavement with this car, and RE-11 tires. I had been lapping at a local cement track (ICAR Mirabel). I did not adjust my tire pressure from the previous day, and was getting serious grip, and no understeer, with slight oversteer under power, to rotate the car - just the way I like it. I started getting more traction and bite than I ever had, built up my confidence level, and passed a lot of cars that day. What a great feeling that was.

The damn tires stuck like glue on the dry ... What the heck was that about. Could the asphalt track be the solution to my understeer or was it lower tire pressure? I dont see the pressing need for suspension mods anymore. Im still perplexed by the massive gain of traction and control of the car. I am still trying to determine whether the asphalt pavement made that much difference, or the lowered tire pressure did.

I monitored the tires and brake pads after every session. The RE-11 fronts are not corded yet, but outside half of tire now looks like full race slick ... (no tread left).

Im going to be hitting the cement pavement track again soon, and compare how the tires handles relative to asphalt pavement, and monitoring tire pressure closely. I expect less traction and RE-11 tires might not be as good on cement surface (airport track).

To be continued ...
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      04-28-2014, 11:18 PM   #28
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Great follow up dcaron. Thanks for posting that. I have found pressures to be a minor, but impactful adjustment. My last time at Sonoma in November, even the RFTs were really good (as good as they can be) in one of the warmer sessions around mid-day, but then the next session the shadows started to come out and it was like driving on ice.

My general rule of thumb is to start a couple PSI below the door jam numbers when it's cold in the morning, then continue to drop a little more as it warms up, and start adding it back in if it starts getting cool again late in the day. I have a temperature probe to help add some data to make the right adjustment, but you have to be diligent about coming directly to the pits as fast as possible to get reasonably reliable readings.

Last edited by 02rsxpilot; 04-29-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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      04-29-2014, 08:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
I monitored the tires and brake pads after every session. The RE-11 fronts are not corded yet, but outside half of tire now looks like full race slick ... (no tread left).

Im going to be hitting the cement pavement track again soon, and compare how the tires handles relative to asphalt pavement. I expect less traction and RE-11 tires might not be as good on this surface.

To be continued ...
I am looking forward to hearing about your next experience.

No tread is good in the dry, bad in the wet. Assuming the rubber hasn't aged out, your best dry grip will be once the tread has worn down. But to get some more life out of your tires, flip them on the rims so you can wear out the other side at your next track day. Cords appear very quickly once you get to the slick state, and they will end your track day as soon as they appear, unless you have another set of tires on hand.

Tires with a broad traction peak and progressive break away characteristics invite over driving them, which is very hard on the rubber. It might be worth paying more attention to tire noise and also the point at which more steering does not result in more cornering force. If you can drive at or just below the cornering force peak, as opposed to beyond it, you will find big gains in tire life.

I have always enjoyed track days that start wet and end dry (as opposed to the opposite). When grip builds over the event, it always seems to leave me particularly satisfied with the event.
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      04-30-2014, 04:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
My RE-11's were beyond the wear bar in the front (no tread left on out half of the tire), and at the wear bar in the rear.
Disproportionate treadwear of the outside shoulders is ordinarily attributable to insufficient negative camber. If you truly have -3.2o front camber and have driven your set of RE-11 only at -3.2o camber, then it is possible you may have excessive body roll as previously suggested. Once your setup is corrected, you can monitor your tyres further by pyrometry.

Of course, any new tyres you choose to fit will continue to degrade in this uneven manner - until the vehicle setup is corrected (assuming the same driving technique and same circuits attended).


Quote:
I had a chance to discuss about my issue with different instructors that sat in the car, and mentioned I was running -3.2* camber in the front. He mentioned that with that much camber, and little traction in the wet, I was effectively reducing the front tire contact patch, and that I should try reducing my camber, or lowering my front+rear tire pressure to 30 PSI hot.
Wet surface will reduce traction, and thus cornering loads. So whilst -3.2o is excellent for tight cornering in the dry, it might be unfavourable in the wet. This is not necessarily a reason to refine vehicle setup on the go (unless you have the resources), but reducing tyre pressures and softening suspension may assist temporarily. Alternatively, just revert back to your non-competition tyre setup (eg PSS for street/wet).

Quote:
I dont see the pressing need for suspension mods anymore.
The is no need to amend suspension if you have an unlimited tyre budget
For track-prepped vehicles, setup is everything!
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      04-30-2014, 09:36 AM   #31
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Excellent feedback timbo_3101!

Street wheel/tire setup for wet days, dedicated track wheel/tire for dry days.

I see your point about choosing between a tire budget or suspension budget ...
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      04-30-2014, 09:41 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Excellent feedback timbo_3101!

Street wheel/tire setup for wet days, dedicated track wheel/tire for dry days.

I see your point about choosing between a tire budget or suspension budget ...
No need for a wet setup when you're just starting out.

IMO, I'm running -3.6* up front with TCK DA Suspension and I'm still going to get outside wear.

BMWs need around -4* + to see even wear up front, our cars do not like front tires.

IMO, get a tire with a hard sidewall (Like Dunlop Z2s) to compensate for the lack of camber and reduce outside wear
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      04-30-2014, 09:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
No tread is good in the dry, bad in the wet. Assuming the rubber hasn't aged out, your best dry grip will be once the tread has worn down. But to get some more life out of your tires, flip them on the rims so you can wear out the other side at your next track day. Cords appear very quickly once you get to the slick state, and they will end your track day as soon as they appear, unless you have another set of tires on hand.
Good input. I dont know if they are worth flipping with that much wear but I will consider this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
Tires with a broad traction peak and progressive break away characteristics invite over driving them, which is very hard on the rubber. It might be worth paying more attention to tire noise and also the point at which more steering does not result in more cornering force. If you can drive at or just below the cornering force peak, as opposed to beyond it, you will find big gains in tire life.
The RE-11 make very little noise at the limit, but your comments are very meaningful as allways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
I have always enjoyed track days that start wet and end dry (as opposed to the opposite). When grip builds over the event, it always seems to leave me particularly satisfied with the event.
Mother nature could not have planned it better for us on these two days. First day held us back, and made us focus on finesse.
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      04-30-2014, 09:47 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
No need for a wet setup when you're just starting out.
Second year actually..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
IMO, I'm running -3.6* up front with TCK DA Suspension and I'm still going to get outside wear. BMWs need around -4* + to see even wear up front, our cars do not like front tires. IMO, get a tire with a hard sidewall (Like Dunlop Z2s) to compensate for the lack of camber and reduce outside wear
How does the ZII sidewall stiffness compare to the RE11?
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      04-30-2014, 09:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Street wheel/tire setup for wet days, dedicated track wheel/tire for dry days.
Well, as much as possible I would strive to preserve race rubber. It is difficult to convey, but here in Australia it is US$3000 per set.

Quote:
I see your point about choosing between a tire budget or suspension budget ...
Because your 135i is for circuits only, as is my vehicle, it is fortunate we can simply maintain what would ordinarily be ridiculous/aggressive setups. Even the M3 racers would laugh at us (3-4o camber), since some advocate only -2.5o
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      04-30-2014, 09:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Second year actually..



How does the ZII sidewall stiffness compare to the RE11?
That is, IMO, still starting out.

Unless you're doing Time Trials, or being competitive, there is no need for more tires.

Z2s should be a bit stiffer than RE11s. IMO, the RE11s are garbage, they cannot handle heat like Hankook, Dunlop of BFG. They grease over too easily and their grip threshold sucks
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      04-30-2014, 09:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
IMO, I'm running -3.6* up front with TCK DA Suspension and I'm still going to get outside wear.

BMWs need around -4* + to see even wear up front, our cars do not like front tires.
Thanks Kgolf.

I wonder if this is related more to autocross/motorkhana, which can produce greater lateral loads than circuit racing.

On pyrometry, my E82 at -3.3o front camber produces minimal temperature gradient across inside and outside tyres on a fast, flowing circuit and on power circuit (light cornering). If anything, there may be marginally higher temperatures of the inside shoulder - suggesting camber need not be as high as 3.0o unless a driver is capable of exploiting an aggressive setup.
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      04-30-2014, 12:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Good input. I dont know if they are worth flipping with that much wear but I will consider this.


The RE-11 make very little noise at the limit, but your comments are very meaningful as allways.



Mother nature could not have planned it better for us on these two days. First day held us back, and made us focus on finesse.
If they're not making noise, then you're not at the limit lol - seriously. You have more to give. Even aggressive street tires like RE-11's give good feedback. My buddy runs them on his E46 M3 and I can hear them screeching all day in his videos.

Btw someone else made a good point, if you're dealing with uneven wear consider flipping them if the conditions are dry as directionality makes little difference then. Me personally, I'm too lazy to flip because I know it'll only give me another 1-2 weekends even after setting my alignment. I'll only do it if it's the last event of the year and I need to get through the weekend but something you should consider...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
That is, IMO, still starting out.

Unless you're doing Time Trials, or being competitive, there is no need for more tires.

Z2s should be a bit stiffer than RE11s. IMO, the RE11s are garbage, they cannot handle heat like Hankook, Dunlop of BFG. They grease over too easily and their grip threshold sucks
Garbage might be harsh, better tires out there for that price range but they're still fine for DE. But I agree, the Hankooks are money. I'm considering going back to them since v2's have been released (better wet) and I'm running R-comps now. Hankooks will be $200 cheaper and only few tenths slower.
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      04-30-2014, 02:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Garbage might be harsh, better tires out there for that price range but they're still fine for DE. But I agree, the Hankooks are money. I'm considering going back to them since v2's have been released (better wet) and I'm running R-comps now. Hankooks will be $200 cheaper and only few tenths slower.
I just wasn't a fan.

PS - I'd be hesitant on the V2s. Haven't heard really much on them yet besides they get to temp a bit quicker. Nothing on wet performance.

The Z2s blow the old V1s out of the water. No comparison.
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      04-30-2014, 03:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
That is, IMO, still starting out.

Unless you're doing Time Trials, or being competitive, there is no need for more tires.

Z2s should be a bit stiffer than RE11s. IMO, the RE11s are garbage, they cannot handle heat like Hankook, Dunlop of BFG. They grease over too easily and their grip threshold sucks
Thanks Kyle.

I saw a review where the ZII is supposely harsh on the streets (to be expected with a stiffer sidewall), and noisy due to their tread pattern (hum above 20MPH). Have you experienced this?

Have you tried these tires at high speeds both on cement and asphalt pavement?

Im convinced I will stick with extreme performance tires for now, and stick with my stock 261 RIMS (225/40R18 and 255/35R18 max tire sizes) due to limited budget.

I obviously dont have enough experience for R-comp yet. My top two choices are: Dunlop Direzza ZII's, and Yokohama AD08R. Nick from Tirerack suggest that I choose one of these two for better sidewall stiffness. He thinks the ZII may be more appropriate for operating temperature range, and various surfaces (cement or asphalt).

Thanks.
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      04-30-2014, 04:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Thanks Kyle.

I saw a review where the ZII is supposely harsh on the streets (to be expected with a stiffer sidewall), and noisy due to their tread pattern (hum above 20MPH). Have you experienced this?

Have you tried these tires at high speeds both on cement and asphalt pavement?

Im convinced I will stick with extreme performance tires for now, and stick with my stock 261 RIMS (225/40R18 and 255/35R18 max tire sizes) due to limited budget.

I obviously dont have enough experience for R-comp yet. My top two choices are: Dunlop Direzza ZII's, and Yokohama AD08R. Nick from Tirerack suggest that I choose one of these two for better sidewall stiffness. He thinks the ZII may be more appropriate for operating temperature range, and various surfaces (cement or asphalt).

Thanks.
I've ran them on airport before (concrete) and just this past weekend on asphalt. Obviously concrete is MUCH more grippier than asphalt.

The tires when new are indeed loud, and will hum. I ran them in fairly low temperatures (read like 35F) to get the mold release off and it sounded like a 4x4 with oversized tires. Since a couple autocrosses driving to a restaurant or something during the event and having the tires on...the noise has gone down considerably. But the hum is still there.

Other than that, I transport my tires to and front events. Highest speed saw was highway driving. It will change though when I get on the track
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      05-03-2014, 07:35 AM   #42
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I tried a quick experiment with my rear 255/35R18 RE-11 tires on stock style 261 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS, by installing them in the front (with a 10mm hubcentric spacer), and switched my 225/40R18 RE-11 on stock style 261 18x7.5 ET49 RIMS in the rear. Although my test drive was on the street, I was impressed with tighter turn-in, and noticeable better grip in the front. I threw the car in hard sharp turns and esses to load the suspension and listened for rubbing and got none.

I may buy a used set of style 261's and set my 135i up with a square set of 255/35R18 Extreme Perf tires for dual duty. With the added rubber in front, I may stick with RE-11 tires too, as they are relatively quiet, even if they sport a traction rating of "A" versus the optimal "AA" traction rating (better grip on pavement and cement). I would love to try the Dunlop ZII's but read many complaints of road noise (dont want to deal with 4x4 mud tire noise on the highway). I have no budget for two dedicated sets of RIMS/Tires this year.

Do any of you guys run hubcentric spacers on your cars which see track time? Is it safe to do so, and can it damage wheel bearings or other components?
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 05-03-2014 at 07:45 AM.
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      05-03-2014, 10:10 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
I tried a quick experiment with my rear 255/35R18 RE-11 tires on stock style 261 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS, by installing them in the front (with a 10mm hubcentric spacer), and switched my 225/40R18 RE-11 on stock style 261 18x7.5 ET49 RIMS in the rear. Although my test drive was on the street, I was impressed with tighter turn-in, and noticeable better grip in the front. I threw the car in hard sharp turns and esses to load the suspension and listened for rubbing and got none.

I may buy a used set of style 261's and set my 135i up with a square set of 255/35R18 Extreme Perf tires for dual duty. With the added rubber in front, I may stick with RE-11 tires too, as they are relatively quiet, even if they sport a traction rating of "A" versus the optimal "AA" traction rating (better grip on pavement and cement). I would love to try the Dunlop ZII's but read many complaints of road noise (dont want to deal with 4x4 mud tire noise on the highway). I have no budget for two dedicated sets of RIMS/Tires this year.

Do any of you guys run hubcentric spacers on your cars which see track time? Is it safe to do so, and can it damage wheel bearings or other components?
The traction ratings are dubious. Hoosiers have traction rating "C"! Better to go by actual test data that is representative of your use.

ZIIs are noisy. They seem to get noisier with use, but then you put a new set on and they are noisy from the get go. You should listen to a set though because "noisy" is very subjective. Personally, I can live with them, but depending on my passenger on the street, I sometimes find myself apologizing for the noise.

For what you propose hubcentric spacers will not cause any problem because you are not widening the track (which is measured between wheel center lines). If you significantly widen the track you do introduce more overhung moment on the wheel bearings, but in the 135i you can't do this without running into the fenders. Really you are just proposing to use the spacers to fix what is the wrong wheel offset for the location.

Tracking your car is hard on the front wheel bearings. When they start to go they make quite a racket too (long before you can feel any play develop). I am on my second set of front wheel bearings. I changed them at about 80,000 km.

Well done with the practical experiment with materials at hand.
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      05-04-2014, 03:20 PM   #44
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I have no rolled or pulled fenders on my 2011 135i. Just M3 control arms and camber plates set for max negative camber (-3.2*).

I just did a quick test drive with sharp sudden lef-right turns at moderate speed, and heard no rubbing. I will now do some static tests (put a block of wood under one of the front tires, and let the weight of the car load the suspension on that corner, while I take a few measurements. Will also try full lock-to-lock steering turns to verify clearance. Will try to snap pictures with my cell phone and post here ...
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Last edited by dcaron9999; 01-10-2015 at 05:54 PM.
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