BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

View Poll Results: 17x9 ET45/48 OR 17x9.5 ET58/60
17x9" ET45/48 41 57.75%
17x9.5" ET58/60 30 42.25%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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      06-02-2015, 09:27 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Following this insight (forgot STX can only do 9", in STU, we have more leeway), if the 9" size ends up being popular choice, having an ET50 wheel would be largely plug and play in the rear, and a 15mm spacer to clear the strut up front.
If I wanted to fit the most tire up front WITHOUT fender modification, which wheel would I want to buy? I'll vote if you answer that!
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      06-02-2015, 11:43 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
If I wanted to fit the most tire up front WITHOUT fender modification, which wheel would I want to buy? I'll vote if you answer that!
A high offset 9.5" rear wheel, but seeing as you have a 128i, I would not recommend it. Too much rear wheel grip will just induce additional understeer. To be honest, with my much heavier, and much more powerful 135i, I don't feel the need for more than a 9" rear wheel in terms of lateral grip.
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      06-08-2015, 05:29 PM   #47
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On my 17 I'm running a 235/40 front and a 9.5 rear 255/40 on R compounds no camber, no fender roll, no plug and play.
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      06-09-2015, 04:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
If I wanted to fit the most tire up front WITHOUT fender modification, which wheel would I want to buy? I'll vote if you answer that!
Not sure if you mean by no modification no widebodies, etc or truly not even a fender roll. The answer to your question HIGHLY depends on your other suspension, for example camber, and whether you have the M lower control arms.

Assuming you have coilover suspension with the perch above the tire, an aggressive track-oriented alignment (over 3 degrees camber), and rolled fenders, you can fit a 17x9 with an effective offset of 30-33mm with a race-oriented 255-40-17 street tire such as the Bridgestone RE71R. This is the most that is really possible while maintaining full range of motion.

As you start subtracting from that list of preparation, what you can accomplish will go down. While I have not personally tried it, a normal 235-40-17 street tire on a 17x8.5 should be doable with a more moderate amount of camber (2+ degrees) and unrolled fenders as long as the offset is just right (ie as close as possible to the strut).

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      06-09-2015, 04:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
A high offset 9.5" rear wheel, but seeing as you have a 128i, I would not recommend it. Too much rear wheel grip will just induce additional understeer. To be honest, with my much heavier, and much more powerful 135i, I don't feel the need for more than a 9" rear wheel in terms of lateral grip.
Yea, my thoughts exactly, I think 9" is what we need

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Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
Not sure if you mean by no modification no widebodies, etc or truly not even a fender roll. The answer to your question HIGHLY depends on your other suspension, for example camber, and whether you have the M lower control arms.

Assuming you have coilover suspension with the perch above the tire, an aggressive track-oriented alignment (over 3 degrees camber), and rolled fenders, you can fit a 17x9 with an effective offset of 30-33mm with a race-oriented 255-40-17 street tire such as the Bridgestone RE71R. This is the most that is really possible while maintaining full range of motion.

As you start subtracting from that list of preparation, what you can accomplish will go down. While I have not personally tried it, a normal 235-40-17 street tire on a 17x8.5 should be doable with a more moderate amount of camber (2+ degrees) and unrolled fenders as long as the offset is just right (ie as close as possible to the strut).

Mark
Yea I was talking with no body modifications. thanks for the input
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      06-11-2015, 07:23 PM   #50
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BUMP any updates from apex?
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      06-14-2015, 02:54 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Beat me to it! Look everyone, APEX is listening, so show your support! I'm leaning towards the medium offset 17x9 so that we can run square setups. Let's make it happen!
I signed up. I just can't get behind a square setup.

From Apex:
"Note that a 9” wheel on the 1 series will not work up front on any car that has an aftermarket suspension installed that sets the lower spring perch next to the tire, or has a thicker diameter shock body... The spring and perch must be kept above the tire for a 9” wheel to fit up front. Stock suspension with lowering springs, and non-inverted struts with 6” main springs should sit above a wide tire and wheel package properly."

Basically all of the good coilover kits for the 1er put the spring perch next to the tire (TCK DA, Ohlins R&T, etc...). You have to get crazy short springs to keep it above the tire, which then compromises a different part of your performance. So unless you want to keep your stock suspension indefinitely, you still aren't getting an ideal setup with this 9 inch wheel offering.

I say stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and instead get the best round peg you can find, which is a 235 or 245 front with a 255 or 265 rear on a staggered 8.5/9.5 17 inch offering with 1-series fitments so we don't need to waste money on spacers. If you want a square setup, go with 8.5 inch wheels, spacers, and 235 or 245s.

My two cents...
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      06-14-2015, 05:56 PM   #52
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I have TCK coilovers and fit a 9" wheel with a 255/40 RS3. I am not using shorter springs than the ones as supplied from TCK.
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      06-14-2015, 11:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
Basically all of the good coilover kits for the 1er put the spring perch next to the tire (TCK DA, Ohlins R&T, etc...). You have to get crazy short springs to keep it above the tire, which then compromises a different part of your performance. So unless you want to keep your stock suspension indefinitely, you still aren't getting an ideal setup with this 9 inch wheel offering.
That's really not true... there are tons of people running TCK DA (Kgolf), Ohlins R&T (Fe1rx), etc that all have the perch located above the tire with adequate front travel. These kits mostly ship with 7" front springs which is perfect for this goal.

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      06-15-2015, 02:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
That's really not true... there are tons of people running TCK DA (Kgolf), Ohlins R&T (Fe1rx), etc that all have the perch located above the tire with adequate front travel. These kits mostly ship with 7" front springs which is perfect for this goal.

Mark
As a general note, the Ohlins M100 kit (originally designed for E9X cars) as supplied will not clear a 9" wide wheel without replacing the front springs with shorter in order to clear the tire. It's a great kit but I wish they would have done a little more homework for the E82 platform knowing that people would want to run wider front section tires. This is all solvable with the right spring (including rate) as well as proper wheel offsets but knowing this up front would have been nice.
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      06-15-2015, 05:06 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
That's really not true... there are tons of people running TCK DA (Kgolf), Ohlins R&T (Fe1rx), etc that all have the perch located above the tire with adequate front travel. These kits mostly ship with 7" front springs which is perfect for this goal.

Mark
I'm not sure two people equals "tons", but regardless, the two you mention have done significant modifications and/or engineering to make that happen. Apex traditionally has tried to provide bolt-on solutions, and I'm simply stating my preference that they continue that tradition.

But if people know something I (and Apex) don't, I'd love to hear what people would do with square 9 inch wheels, including their suspension setup that will accommodate it and what tires and size tires they would run. I'd be entirely open to changing my mind if presented with new information.
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      06-15-2015, 09:57 PM   #56
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This is the clearance on my setup.
Ohlins with a 7" spring, 225/40/18 R888 on 18x8.5 et35.
Set at a reasonable ride height the spring perch is not really above the tyre.



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      06-17-2015, 06:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
I have TCK coilovers and fit a 9" wheel with a 255/40 RS3. I am not using shorter springs than the ones as supplied from TCK.
Jake, didn't you say earlier that fitting a 9 inch wheel requires "...at least -3* camber and a fender roll to clear fat tires*"?

Is that what you have done to fit the 9 inch up front? Any other mods?
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      06-17-2015, 07:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
Jake, didn't you say earlier that fitting a 9 inch wheel requires "...at least -3* camber and a fender roll to clear fat tires*"?

Is that what you have done to fit the 9 inch up front? Any other mods?
-3* camber, and fender roll will do the trick. I also recommend the following if you want to get the absolute most under the car, but they are optional, the car was fine without these bits: File the fender-bumper bolt inside the fender well. Loosen the top fender bolts and pull the fender outward. Seems to do the trick just fine. As is, the fender has tons of space to clear, the issue is the bumper. If I can modify the backside/inside of the bumper cover sufficiently, I am going to run APEX's wexisting 17x9 ET30 wheel.

As stated, I am not using secret sauce parts, and I want to advance the development of the E82 as far as possible, so I am an open book. My TCK coilovers are using the TCK supplied springs, no short, custom deals, the perch is situated clearly above the tire. At 17x9 ET35, the tire will very occasionally, lightly rub the shock, just enough to smear the paint on the shock. I've hammered the car as is, no issues. I've been advised that this is not a problem. Kyle's ET33 would remedy this for those who are paranoid.
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      06-17-2015, 09:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
I'm not sure two people equals "tons", but regardless, the two you mention have done significant modifications and/or engineering to make that happen. Apex traditionally has tried to provide bolt-on solutions, and I'm simply stating my preference that they continue that tradition.
That's a fair point, I think I didn't really explain myself that well. The simple reality is there is no "easy" way to get a 9" wide wheel and wide 255 tire on the front of a 1 series - it requires a perfect combination of offset, camber, roll stiffness, and ride height to make it work. Apex can't just make a wheel that would work because the wheel is such a small part of the whole solution.

There are lots of easy bolt on solutions for the front of a 1 series, they just are narrower wheels and smaller tires.

If they build a 17x9 +35 it would be a perfect bolt-on wheel for the front of our cars, but completely useless for the back, it absolutely couldn't work. For me personally, I would rather buy 4x 17x9 +50 and a set of spacers for the front and have the ability to rotate wheels, instead of 2x 17x9 +35 for the front and 2x 17x9 +50 for the back but maybe I am alone on this one.

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      06-17-2015, 09:31 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
That's a fair point, I think I didn't really explain myself that well. The simple reality is there is no "easy" way to get a 9" wide wheel and wide 255 tire on the front of a 1 series - it requires a perfect combination of offset, camber, roll stiffness, and ride height to make it work. Apex can't just make a wheel that would work because the wheel is such a small part of the whole solution.

There are lots of easy bolt on solutions for the front of a 1 series, they just are narrower wheels and smaller tires.

If they build a 17x9 +35 it would be a perfect bolt-on wheel for the front of our cars, but completely useless for the back, it absolutely couldn't work. For me personally, I would rather buy 4x 17x9 +50 and a set of spacers for the front and have the ability to rotate wheels, instead of 2x 17x9 +35 for the front and 2x 17x9 +50 for the back but maybe I am alone on this one.

Mark
This is my sentiment exactly
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      06-18-2015, 03:18 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
If I wanted to fit the most tire up front WITHOUT fender modification, which wheel would I want to buy? I'll vote if you answer that!
Same here, although whatever offset fits a 235/255 without modification on a aftermarket lowered suspension I would be happy with. This would be just my track set up with R comps. I ran 235/255 on 18s with ARC8s on RS3s and am very happy with the setup. So a 17" setup with that configuration on R Comps would be great.
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      06-18-2015, 06:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post

If they build a 17x9 +35 it would be a perfect bolt-on wheel for the front of our cars, but completely useless for the back, it absolutely couldn't work. For me personally, I would rather buy 4x 17x9 +50 and a set of spacers for the front and have the ability to rotate wheels, instead of 2x 17x9 +35 for the front and 2x 17x9 +50 for the back but maybe I am alone on this one.

Mark
I think for me it comes down to what tire sizes you want to run. There are bolt-on 17-inch setups on the market right now that could run 235 square or even 245 with the right mods. 255 is the max up front, and yeah a 9 inch wheel would be ideal but a 8.5 inch wheel would also be just fine. So then the question is, are you giving up performance by not going 265 or 275 in the rear? If yes, then I want 8.5/9.5 and I'll fit however much tire I can at each end. Rotating tires isn't that big of a deal to me. I'm already saving money by buying 17s. But, if a 245 or 255 square setup is just as quick or quicker than the staggered setup, then maybe it is worth going to the lengths to make it fit with modified suspensions, etc...

At any rate, appreciate everyone's various perspectives.
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      06-19-2015, 02:34 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
I think for me it comes down to what tire sizes you want to run. There are bolt-on 17-inch setups on the market right now that could run 235 square or even 245 with the right mods. 255 is the max up front, and yeah a 9 inch wheel would be ideal but a 8.5 inch wheel would also be just fine. So then the question is, are you giving up performance by not going 265 or 275 in the rear? If yes, then I want 8.5/9.5 and I'll fit however much tire I can at each end. Rotating tires isn't that big of a deal to me. I'm already saving money by buying 17s. But, if a 245 or 255 square setup is just as quick or quicker than the staggered setup, then maybe it is worth going to the lengths to make it fit with modified suspensions, etc...

At any rate, appreciate everyone's various perspectives.
Depends on the car, and the driver. As is, I do not feel the need for more rear tire than a 255. It offers plenty of lateral grip. Going wider in the rear will just exacerbate understeer issues.
Fun fact, right now, I'm running a wider wheel up front than I am in the back, with a 9" wheel up front and an 8.5" in the rear. The car had enough rear grip before, it needed more up front, so that's where I added it. Seems to be working well thus far.
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      09-28-2015, 09:54 PM   #64
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Any update? Hopefully APEX will do this!

Voted for the 17x9.5 ET58. Feel a 255 squared setup does not provide enough grip at certain tracks like Sonoma Raceway. Prefer more rubber in the rear.
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      09-30-2015, 06:14 PM   #65
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Also hoping for an update. Want to ditch my 245 drag radials and go with 275s.
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      09-30-2015, 06:31 PM   #66
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Ask APEX. I have no updates to share on this one. Make sure to vote in the link in the original post to this thread.
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