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      10-02-2013, 09:42 AM   #1
Davyhay
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Even more turbo discussion

Lately, I have seen a fair number of bargain-priced N54 turbos on ebay--such as this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E60-535X...4ff828&vxp=mtr

Now, I believe that chances are fair that these are turbos that were swapped out due to the known issues with the wastegates.

With our cars, I am pretty sure it is not a matter of if, but when the turbos fail. This being the case, is there any reasonable way to purchase used turbos and remedy the problem? I see this as a viable option to paying thousands for an out-of-warranty turbo replacement.

I have done a fair amount of research, and I have been unable to determine exactly what fails. I know there are companies that sell upgraded actuators, but if the problem was this simple, I don't see why BMW would be swapping turbos, so I have to assume the issue is more involved. The only thing I can come up with is that the pivot joint for the wastegate valve is actually somehow failing. If this is the case, I certainly see where this might be impractical to fix.

I would welcome an input on this.
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      10-02-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
Davyhay
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Come on guys, this seems like important stuff. If they live long enough, it is likely that most N54 based cars will have turbo problems. If this happens out of warranty, the repair could be 3-5K. With these used units available for sell, there may be a viable alternative to the ridiculous new cost for replacements.
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      10-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davyhay View Post
Come on guys, this seems like important stuff. If they live long enough, it is likely that most N54 based cars will have turbo problems. If this happens out of warranty, the repair could be 3-5K. With these used units available for sell, there may be a viable alternative to the ridiculous new cost for replacements.
It’s quite rare for a turbo to truly “fail”, as in it simply will not produce boost. The wastegate actuators and arms tend to wear over time, things get sticky and that makes it harder to hit requested boost. You can get some shaft play as well; the seals can fail and push oil through. The above solution is viable and relatively cheap hardware wise, but I would never put a 100K+ turbo in the car. The way I see it, since you’re paying $1K or more just for labor, you may as well pony up for low mileage used turbos or new OE ones. It’s a good time to do water pump as well, since it doesn’t require any additional labor.
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      10-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #4
Davyhay
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Sorry, I did not notice the mileage. I just posted the first example I found. I found others with relatively low miles. Also, at least in my case, installation will not be a huge issue.
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      10-02-2013, 11:47 AM   #5
Davyhay
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And as far as that goes, what is to keep people from just replacing the offending parts on their own cars. At least on one turbo, this seems possible without removing it from the car.
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      10-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #6
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Waste Gate arms are adjustable.
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      10-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #7
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Aren't the turbos covered now for 8yrs/82k miles due to the wastegate rattle issues?
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      10-02-2013, 03:00 PM   #8
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Not exaclty. The will replace the turbos if their tests reveal that they are defective. The waste gate rattle by itself does not constitute a turbo replacement.

I tried and was denied.
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      10-02-2013, 03:56 PM   #9
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And I am over 82K. Honestly, I have been really concerned that my turbos were defective. I installed a temporary boost gauge and was only seeing 6-7psi. However, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a JB4 G5 with the ISO firmware and installed it today. After 30 minutes of spirited driving on map 5, I am hitting target boost at about 14-15psi.

I do still have way more turbo lag than I think I should, but my car has never had walnut shell blasting, which I will be getting very soon. I hope this fixes this problem.
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      10-02-2013, 04:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
Not exaclty. The will replace the turbos if their tests reveal that they are defective. The waste gate rattle by itself does not constitute a turbo replacement.
I tried and was denied.
It does, actually. I'm sorry to hear that your dealership did not abide by the warranty paperwork as it applies to your problem.

In short, if your wastegates rattle, your turbos warrant replacement.

Please see here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/151944416/...ended-Warranty
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      10-03-2013, 12:55 PM   #11
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Well, reading the documentation closely it doesn't say that. Therefore dealers will not replace turbos.

I tried several dealers.
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      10-03-2013, 12:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
Well, reading the documentation closely it doesn't say that. Therefore dealers will not replace turbos.

I tried several dealers.
Sorry to hear that. Several of my friends have had turbos replaced when they developed excessive wastegate rattle.
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      10-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
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This place has a good deal on new OEM replacements. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-...item2a28b449d4
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      10-03-2013, 04:05 PM   #14
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it isnt so much the price of the turbo chargers themselves that make turbo replacement expensive, it is the labor. Getting aftermarket turbos in a car usually runs $2000-2500. The labor is the same for replacing stocks.
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      10-03-2013, 04:16 PM   #15
Davyhay
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I thought these could be accessed by taking the passenger suspension apart and getting at them through the wheel well. There must be more to it that I am aware.
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      10-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #16
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Typically it will be the flapper/seat, oil seals or bearing to go out. I believe the cheapest route is the VTT rebuilds or Stage 1's. That's $1200 or $1800 and both have the upgraded wastegate parts and optional upgraded thrust setup.
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      10-03-2013, 11:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
Well, reading the documentation closely it doesn't say that. Therefore dealers will not replace turbos.

I tried several dealers.
Come on dude. Read the bulletin. It specifically cites to check this document:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...wn54update.pdf

Read the repair procedure. It "does say that".

It's one thing if you don't want to put forth the effort to get your parts covered- it's another to blame it on the document which clearly states what the dealer is required to do to correct a particular situation.

Best of luck, whether you decide to give up or not.
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      10-04-2013, 08:36 AM   #18
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I have a copy of the TSB. Trust me. It clearly states that the turbo test at the dealer must show a bad turbo. A noisy valve - in their - opinion is not a turbo failure.

I've been to two dealers and they showed me the result of the tests. No way I could argue with it. BMW will not cover it if the reports don't state turbo failure..

Your link clearly shows that for vehicles produced between September 2007 and March 2008:

Do not replace the turbocharger or adjust the existing wastegate actuator control rod

futhermore it states:

To ignore the reuslts of the test.

On my car the test did not even show that this was bad although the rattle is quite evident.
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      10-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
I have a copy of the TSB. Trust me. It clearly states that the turbo test at the dealer must show a bad turbo. A noisy valve - in their - opinion is not a turbo failure.
I've been to two dealers and they showed me the result of the tests. No way I could argue with it. BMW will not cover it if the reports don't state turbo failure..
sigh

It clearly states, and I'll paste it here for you:
"If the noise is described as a clanking noise occurring up to six or seven times in a row during adeceleration from approximately 3,500 RPM, or during a heavy application of the accelerator without a drive gear being engaged, then continue with the procedures described in this document.

...

E60 (including xDrive), E61 (including xDrive), E82, E88, E89, E90 (including xDrive), E92(including xDrive) and E93:
Replacing Exhaust Turbocharger


I don't know how it could be any more clear.

The first link I pasted describes, in detail, which models are affected (all model year E82s with the n54 engine) and says to reference the second link for more information on repair procedure should they need a reference. This warranty TSB supercedes prior determinations for turbocharger / wastegate failure as dictated by the earlier document via the descriptions contained within.

Quote:
Your link clearly shows that for vehicles produced between September 2007 and March 2008: Do not replace the turbocharger or adjust the existing wastegate actuator control rod
futhermore it states:
To ignore the reuslts of the test.
On my car the test did not even show that this was bad although the rattle is quite evident.
Read above- if your situation was normal, many people on this forum would not have had their tubochargers replaced. I have firsthand experience with this exact scenario playing out exactly as described- loud noises from the wastegates in neural, take it in to the dealer, wastegates determined as cause of noise, turbocharger replacement per TSB.

This isn't a new development. This is a standard protocol for repair. If your dealer doesn't want to do it, that's one thing. If you don't want to fight for it, that's your own business. However, don't start reinterpreting the TSB to somehow not make it apply to you. Your vehicle falls under the recall notice, end of story.
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      10-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #20
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This thread has nothing to do with BMW's willingness to replace turbos when they rattle, so how about the two of you stop thread jacking an honestly interesting topic.

On topic, I'd love to know what the costs associated with refurbing one of those cheaper units would be, assuming the turbine, housing, wastegate etc. aren't damaged. I elect Davy as test guinea pig for buying one.
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      10-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milocher View Post
This thread has nothing to do with BMW's willingness to replace turbos when they rattle, so how about the two of you stop thread jacking an honestly interesting topic.
oops, thought he was OP, sorry about that
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      10-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
Davyhay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milocher View Post
This thread has nothing to do with BMW's willingness to replace turbos when they rattle, so how about the two of you stop thread jacking an honestly interesting topic.

On topic, I'd love to know what the costs associated with refurbing one of those cheaper units would be, assuming the turbine, housing, wastegate etc. aren't damaged. I elect Davy as test guinea pig for buying one.
And I would likely be a good test case, seeing as I have a friend who is highly respected in the world of turbo tuning. I'll see how long it takes for my turbos to take a dump, because they have 95K on them and I am beating on them mercilessly now that I've installed my JB4.
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