N51 Engine - Dealbreaker?

[jwinstonc]

I'm looking at a 2012 128i - Black/Black leather - Sport package. 28k miles. Looks great.

I was checking the VIN though, and noticed it has the N51 SULEV engine. I've read as many posts as I could find on the engine. It sounds like the fuel pump could be a huge pain if it fails.

However, I also read that the SULEV engines carry a 15 year/150k warranty on the fuel delivery parts. What I can't figure out is if that warranty follows the car or if it is only applicable if the car is registered in one of the low-emissions states. I'm in Virginia, which isn't one of the included states.

Even if covered, the added complexities to meet SULEV standards seem a little worrisome. What do you all think? Any insight would be much appreciated.

[champignon]

I believe you will be covered even as a later owner.

Personally speaking, I am a purist, and I hate crap like this put onto cars to satisfy some bean counter/tree hugger/political constituency when all the impact on the car is apt to be negative and there is nothing positive in it for the owner. So, I would personally not buy it, however I am putting my flak jacket on in anticipation of a flurry of shit coming my way in following posts, mostly from people here who have SULEV engined cars.

[Black Prinz]

Google EAC sensor

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by champignon

I believe you will be covered even as a later owner.

Personally speaking, I am a purist, and I hate crap like this put onto cars to satisfy some bean counter/tree hugger/political constituency when all the impact on the car is apt to be negative and there is nothing positive in it for the owner. So, I would personally not buy it, however I am putting my flak jacket on in anticipation of a flurry of shit coming my way in following posts, mostly from people here who have SULEV engined cars.

I won't call it a flurry, but the very positive effect of these types of regulations can be seen (or not seen any more) here in Northern, Southern and Central Valley, California so I don't mind so much that I have a SULEV. I'll be balancing things out when I get the Healey back on the road.

[mr.fabulous]

Wow, when are those pics taken (that's compelling...)

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by mr.fabulous

Wow, when are those pics taken (that's compelling...)

I think the top one is from 1968, the bottom one 2015.

[jwinstonc]

Originally Posted by champignon

I believe you will be covered even as a later owner.

Personally speaking, I am a purist, and I hate crap like this put onto cars to satisfy some bean counter/tree hugger/political constituency when all the impact on the car is apt to be negative and there is nothing positive in it for the owner. So, I would personally not buy it, however I am putting my flak jacket on in anticipation of a flurry of shit coming my way in following posts, mostly from people here who have SULEV engined cars.

I'm of the same mindset. One of the reasons I'm looking at a 128i over the 135i is the reliability of the NA engine vs the twin turbos. The N52, from everything I read, is more reliable than the N51. Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to hold tight and wait for the exact right one.

The airbag recall is the big issue right now. There's a CPO 2013 128i M Sport 6MT sitting on a lot right now that I'd love to buy but can't. Fingers crossed for a quick fix.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jwinstonc

I'm of the same mindset. One of the reasons I'm looking at a 128i over the 135i is the reliability of the NA engine vs the twin turbos. The N52, from everything I read, is more reliable than the N51. Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to hold tight and wait for the exact right one.

The airbag recall is the big issue right now. There's a CPO 2013 128i M Sport 6MT sitting on a lot right now that I'd love to buy but can't. Fingers crossed for a quick fix.

You may be lucky enough to find a well-equipped 128i 6MT with sports package components such as sports seats, M Steering Wheel, and sports suspension, as you seem to have located one and hopefully the price will be attractive.

Unfortunately for those looking to obtain such a vehicle, they are rather rare and frequently sell for only a little less than a comparably equipped 135i. I myself gave up a search for 128i vehicles when the scarcity of sporty 6MT versions became obvious after several months of searching. The 128i in most instances was sold as a near-luxury level economy car for aspirational cheaper luxury car buyers. As a a result, most of them were sold with plastic upholstery, automatic transmissions, the standard suspension, standard steering wheel, and even smaller wheels. If I was looking for a sporty NA BMW, I would not buy such a car.

And, the turbo is nice, the power is really fun, and if you can get it for almost nothing more in comparison to a rare 128i that happens to have sporty features, then my suggestion would be to forego the NA engine in favor of the turbo.

[jwinstonc]

Originally Posted by champignon

You may be lucky enough to find a well-equipped 128i 6MT with sports package components such as sports seats, M Steering Wheel, and sports suspension, as you seem to have located one and hopefully the price will be attractive.

Unfortunately for those looking to obtain such a vehicle, they are rather rare and frequently sell for only a little less than a comparably equipped 135i. I myself gave up a search for 128i vehicles when the scarcity of sporty 6MT versions became obvious after several months of searching. The 128i in most instances was sold as a near-luxury level economy car for aspirational cheaper luxury car buyers. As a a result, most of them were sold with plastic upholstery, automatic transmissions, the standard suspension, standard steering wheel, and even smaller wheels. If I was looking for a sporty NA BMW, I would not buy such a car.

And, the turbo is nice, the power is really fun, and if you can get it for almost nothing more in comparison to a rare 128i that happens to have sporty features, then my suggestion would be to forego the NA engine in favor of the turbo.

Good advice. I actually have just started to expand the search and am entertaining the idea of a 135i. The turbos would add to the maintenance cost, but I'm sure would be a ton of fun to drive.

You're right on the pricing of the 128i's. The BMW dealer selling the 128i I mentioned is asking more than I think is fair - probably because of the rarity of the 6MT, M Sport, leather interior. I'm close to biting the bullet and paying it though, just to end the search and have several years of warranty coverage.

I have definitely seen the scarcity of the sport oriented 128i's. Almost all seem to be automatics that are mostly standard equipment or automatics that have ALL of the options.

[Schalldampfer1]

Originally Posted by jwinstonc

I'm of the same mindset. One of the reasons I'm looking at a 128i over the 135i is the reliability of the NA engine vs the twin turbos. The N52, from everything I read, is more reliable than the N51. Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to hold tight and wait for the exact right one.

The airbag recall is the big issue right now. There's a CPO 2013 128i M Sport 6MT sitting on a lot right now that I'd love to buy but can't. Fingers crossed for a quick fix.

The 135 is not unreliable. It is all relative. I bought a 2008 135i 6MT from a private owner last year with 60k miles for around $16k. It had some paint issues but was fine when I got it. The credit union I got the financing from offered the same extended warranty as offered at CarMax (which is really good). I bought that for an extra $2,800 which covers the car for 4 years 50k miles. Since last May I have had replacement of turbos/lines, brake booster/master cylinder, oil filter housing gasket, valve cover, radio head unit, water pump, and some other small odds and ends. So far my warranty has covered over $10k in parts and labor at my BMW dealer. All I had to pay was my deductible and had a nice loaner while she was out. Now she is like a brand new car to me! I didn't mind going through this, especially when I could have the car I really wanted with more power and features than the 128. Think about it.

[omid]

Consider my 135i! I just picked up my M2 last night and need to sell it- title in hand.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1248937

[squidge]

Originally Posted by Schalldampfer1

The 135 is not unreliable. It is all relative. I bought a 2008 135i 6MT from a private owner last year with 60k miles for around $16k. It had some paint issues but was fine when I got it. The credit union I got the financing from offered the same extended warranty as offered at CarMax (which is really good). I bought that for an extra $2,800 which covers the car for 4 years 50k miles. Since last May I have had replacement of turbos/lines, brake booster/master cylinder, oil filter housing gasket, valve cover, radio head unit, water pump, and some other small odds and ends. So far my warranty has covered over $10k in parts and labor at my BMW dealer. All I had to pay was my deductible and had a nice loaner while she was out. Now she is like a brand new car to me! I didn't mind going through this, especially when I could have the car I really wanted with more power and features than the 128. Think about it.

Yeah, but what happens in another 60k? You can't say the car is not unreliable and then list a bunch of things that failed at 60k miles.

The 128 is inherently simpler and therefore more reliable. The N51 adds a little bit of that complexity back in the form of the SULEV equipment (although the three stage intake manifold is a pro) but is still a much more reliable and arguably more pure car than the 135. I'm super happy with mine. Granted, it's got 9k miles so I can't speak to anything long term yet.

Go look at the list of cars with the SULEV designation. It's mostly a bunch of hybrids... And the 128/328. I think that's pretty cool, actually.

[squidge]

Originally Posted by jwinstonc

What I can't figure out is if that warranty follows the car or if it is only applicable if the car is registered in one of the low-emissions states. I'm in Virginia, which isn't one of the included states.

Originally Posted by champignon

I believe you will be covered even as a later owner.

As far as I can tell, the warranty applies to subsequent owners but only in the particular states. You won't be covered in VA.

I'm currently in CA, which is covered, but likely to move back to NC in a couple years, which isn't covered, so that kind of sucks for me too.

[Kgolf31]

N51 Owner here.

Bought by car with 4,000 miles on it, currently ticking at 49,950 miles.

No issues what-so ever with the car...and all miles are hard driven on autox, with headers and tune.

I wouldn't worry about it

[Fes128]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

...I wouldn't worry about it

I second that...

2012 E82 N51 SULEV M Sport

[The Wind Breezes]

HA. The N51 / N52 are in no way more reliable than a N55. They use all the same parts / complicated systems except the turbo which is dead reliable on N55.

[sprp85]

Sigh.

Here we go agian.

[squidge]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

HA. The N51 / N52 are in no way more reliable than a N55. They use all the same parts / complicated systems except the turbo which is dead reliable on N55.

[3ics]

Originally Posted by jwinstonc

I'm looking at a 2012 128i - Black/Black leather - Sport package. 28k miles. Looks great.

I noticed your location, is that car at [I removed the name of the dealer]? If so, I was very tempted to drive down for that car!

[jwinstonc]

It's in Maryland. Looks nice but thinking I'll hold off for a non-SULEV.

[jwinstonc]

The dealer selling it has called me every day for the last week and a half. It's been sitting on their lot for a little while so they'd probably sell it for a good bit less than what they're asking.

[3ics]

Originally Posted by jwinstonc

The dealer selling it has called me every day for the last week and a half. It's been sitting on their lot for a little while so they'd probably sell it for a good bit less than what they're asking.

Yes, I was planning to go down last Friday and I just checked the listing again. Price dropped $1,000 in a week.