Rattle noise from Ground Control Street Camber Plates - normal?

[dcaron9999]

I just got the GC Street plates and M3 front control arms installed. Turn in and steering control is is definitely sharper on the street. Can wait to take the car to the track tonight.

One caveat: Im not too impressed with noise over bumps at slow or medium speed on the street. It sounds like a used bushing sound/rattle or some play in the Camber plate, like something is loose. Not sure if this is normal with Ground Control Street Camber plates, which I bought specifically to have least amount of NVH (noise, vibration,harshness).

I am checking back with with my indi; even if they did do a road test before handing the car over, they did not mention anything special. I also reached out to Ground Control directly to get their input.

[shemeld_135]

hey man - i just picked up a used set and the guy who i bought them from said this:

"I will say that GC claims the street plates are OEM silent. They aren't. The design is RIGID and NVH transmission is definitely increased. I still rock a set of GC streets on my new setup and love them, but don't expect cloud-like silence out of them."

Dont have them installed yet but seems to be normal..

-Rob

[P90Puma]

If you wanted no noise you shouldn't have gotten adjustable plates...

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by P90Puma

If you wanted no noise you shouldn't have gotten adjustable plates...

I can deal with harshness, but rattles drives me crazy, and just makes the car feal cheap ...

I now realize that GC marketing claim to no NVH for the "Street plates" has hooked the vulnerable part of my brain.

I will decide what to do in a few days, after driving, lapping, and having the setup checked over one last time. I may go back to my OEM top hats, or maybe Dinan fixed plates.

[shemeld_135]

Originally Posted by P90Puma

If you wanted no noise you shouldn't have gotten adjustable plates...

they are adjustable lol

http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=842/CA=182

[dcaron9999]

This is what got me hooked ...

"Other features include replaceable waterproof German axial load bearings, and urethane bushings for long life, less deflection, and a smooth silent ride on either stock, or 2.5" racing springs...."

[Bimmer-Bob]

Which springs & struts are you using?

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Which springs & struts are you using?

Bone stock: M-sport package.

I booked an appointment to get my indi shop to do a full check over this week, and I have sent them the feedback from Trevor @ Ground Control. I have exchanged a few emails , and few pictures from Trevor. Im getting great after sales support from him, so thumbs up for him and his company!

Here's some of his great input :

" Today I plan to build your exact order, and install them on an OE strut we have here. In the meantime, would you try to duplicate the noise from the outside of the car?

When the M3 control arms where installed, was the suspension at full droop or was the suspension loaded? Also, have you checked the sway bar end links to make sure everything is properly tightened? The noises you describe sound to be almost the exact same as a loose/defective end link."

[r0nd3L]

I have their full kit with M3 control arms and Street plates. The plates are LOUD and harsh! Suspension sure feels great, but I will still be going back to stock mounts with Dinan plates.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by r0nd3L

I have their full kit with M3 control arms and Street plates. The plates are LOUD and harsh! Suspension sure feels great, but I will still be going back to stock mounts with Dinan plates.

Thanks for your feedback. Interesting that Im not the only one with the "noise", but based on your experience, it seems like Im heading into a dead end hoping for a resolution from GC. Will see what type of results Trevor from GC comes up with his experiment - he is supposed to try the Street plates on stock suspension, and check back with me.

Can you elaborate on finding the GC Street plates LOUD? Mine sounds like a low frequency rattle over abrupt bumps, like something is loose, or like what a worn out bushing would sound like.

Ive come to accept that harshness is part of the game with adjustable plates. I think the Dinan fixed plates coupled with stock OEM "rubber-filled" top hats would solve your issue for good, albeit with a little less negative camber to play with, which might be adequate if you dont track your car.

I took my car to the track this evening and still exibited a fair amount of understeer, even though I monitored and adjusted tire pressure after the first two sessions. I will be dialing in additional negative camber (around -3.5*) in the front and see how the car behaves at the track next week.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by P90Puma

If you wanted no noise you shouldn't have gotten adjustable plates...

Not entirely true, my Vorshlag plates don't make any noise.

Originally Posted by shemeld_135

they are adjustable lol

http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=842/CA=182

That's his point, he's saying if OP didn't want noise, he should've gotten fixed. You're confused by the double negative lol.

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Thanks for your feedback. Interesting that Im not the only one with the "noise", but based on your experience, it seems like Im heading into a dead end hoping for a resolution from GC. Will see what type of results Trevor from GC comes up with his experiment - he is supposed to try the Street plates on stock suspension, and check back with me.

Can you elaborate on finding the GC Street plates LOUD? Mine sounds like a low frequency rattle over abrupt bumps, like something is loose, or like what a worn out bushing would sond like.

Ive come to accept that harshness is part of the game with adjustable plates. I think the Dinan fixed plates coupled with stock OEM "rubber-filled" top hats would solve your issue for good, albeit with a little less negative camber to play with, which might be adequate if you dont track your car.

I took my car to the track this evening and still exibited a fair amount of understeer, even though I monitored and adjusted tire pressure after the first two sessions. I will be dialing in additional negative camber (around -3.5*) in the front and see how the car behaves at the track next week.

Probably because you are running 225's up front, need more rubber. Are you trailbraking? If the noise bothers you that much you can lube the bearings, but you run the risk of them attracting dirt. Also in regards to having to deal with NVH for track parts, while that's true most times I'm being honest in that my Vorshlag plates make no noise. You should find any locals with Vorshlags and experience them first hand.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Probably because you are running 225's up front, need more rubber. Are you trailbraking? If the noise bothers you that much you can lube the bearings, but you run the risk of them attracting dirt.

I run with DTC mode on (half way between full nannies, and completely off). I brake as hard as possible in a straight line, then slow release brake pedal pressure as I engage into turn, so yes Im trailbraking I guess. Im not an advanced driver yet, but this works for me, and no brake noticeable brake fade on stock brake and pads.

The noise I refer to is not one that resembles two parts rubbing together with a lack of lubrication (no squeaking or hit pitched sound). The plates are brand new, the M3 control arms are brand, there is absolutely no play in the arms or bushings. The noise I get is a low frequency rattle, like something is loose, or like what a worn out bushing would sound like. I get this when driving over a series of minor abrupt bumps or pits in the road, worsened with higher pressure in the RE-11 tires.

I do not hear anything on the track, as all environmental noises flood this out completely ...

My indi shop is giving the front end a full look over and re-tightening tomorrow morning. Ive sent them notes and pointers forwarded by a Ground Control subjet matter expert. Will rule out the car suspension bits, then focus on the plates themselves (ie get them replaced if covered by GC, remove them completely and put the stock hats back in there, or get fixed Dinan plates and accept limited negative camber...).

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I run with DTC mode on (half way between full nannies, and completely off). I brake as hard as possible in a straight line, then slow release brake pedal pressure as I engage into turn, so yes Im trailbraking I guess. Im not an advanced driver yet, but this works for me, and no brake noticeable brake fade on stock brake and pads.

The noise I refer to is not one that resembles two parts rubbing together with a lack of lubrication (no squeaking or hit pitched sound). The plates are brand new, the M3 control arms are brand, there is absolutely no play in the arms or bushings. The noise I get is a low frequency rattle, like something is loose, or like what a worn out bushing would sound like. I get this when driving over a series of minor abrupt bumps or pits in the road, worsened with higher pressure in the RE-11 tires.

I do not hear anything on the track, as all environmental noises flood this out completely ...

My indi shop is giving the front end a full look over and re-tightening tomorrow morning. Ive sent them notes and pointers forwarded by a Ground Control subjet matter expert. Will rule out the car suspension bits, then focus on the plates themselves (ie get them replaced if covered by GC, remove them completely and put the stock hats back in there, or get fixed Dinan plates and accept limited negative camber...).

I know what noise you're referring to, that rattle usually results when the bearings are loose. But in any case this is is not the first time I've heard GC plates causing noise, even the street plates require "maintenance".

If you're trailbraking to rotate but still feel there's too much understeer, I think it's time you think about increasing the rubber up front and stiffen the rears. Question is how much do you want to spend on your daily driver? I personally would not want to drive with 3* of camber on stiff coilovers every day.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I know what noise you're referring to, that rattle usually results when the bearings are loose. But in any case this is is not the first time I've heard GC plates causing noise, even the street plates require "maintenance".

Thanks for your great ongoing input!

These plates have been on the car for less than a week, and were brand new when installed. Im hoping they dont need any lubrication this erarly, and no related instructions or ongoing maintenance procedures came with the part, which is something you would expect for a $400 part.

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

If you're trailbraking to rotate but still feel there's too much understeer, I think it's time you think about increasing the rubber up front and stiffen the rears. Question is how much do you want to spend on your daily driver? I personally would not want to drive with 3* of camber on stiff coilovers every day.

Not considering stiff coilovers for a minute. Considering wider rubber in the front, and/or slimmer in the back, aiming for a square setup on my stock 7.5" & 8.5" rims when the time comes (Front or Rear tires worn out, whichever comes first).

I want to avoid spending on new dedicated rims+racing rubber, even though there is an Apex group buy that is picking up momemtum in another 1addicts thread. I know this dedicated setup would be ideal, but I dont have the 3 grand to spend on these at this moment. Besides, lapping season ends in about 2 weeks over here at ICAR in Mirabel, Quebec, Canada.

As for camber, that's what the adjustable plates are all about, correct? Max them out at the track, return to most positive setting for the street. Im still experimenting with them, and right now, focussing on optimized track setting until season ends. Then back to "civilized" setting for the winter, when I do, and if I do take the car out. Our winters are nasty over here, and we have an old school Audi C5 allroad quattro for these conditions ... ;-)

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Thanks for your great ongoing input!

These plates have been on the car for less than a week, and were brand new when installed. Im hoping they dont need any lubrication this erarly, and no related instructions or ongoing maintenance procedures came with the part, which is something you would expect for a $400 part.


Not considering stiff coilovers for a minute. Considering wider rubber in the front, and/or slimmer in the back, aiming for a square setup on my stock 7.5" & 8.5" rims when the time comes (Front or Rear tires worn out, whichever comes first).

I want to avoid spending on new dedicated rims+racing rubber such as the Apex group buy that is picking up momemtum in another 1addicts thread. I know this would be ideal, but I dont have the 3 grand. Besides, lapping season ends in about 2 weeks over here in Mirabel, Quebec, Canada.

As for camber, that's what the adjustable plates are all about, correct? Max them out at the track, return to most positive setting for the street. Im still experimenting with them, and right now, focussing on optimized track setting until season ends. Then back to "civilized" setting for the winter, when I do, and if I do take the car out. Our winters are nasty over here, and we have an old school Audi allroad quattro for these conditions ... ;-)

I'm the same, I don't plan on running a stiff aftermarket suspension. If/when my M-sport wear out, I'll throw in Performance suspension, M3 bushings and Dinan camber plates and call it a day. And even then I don't plan on tracking this car... but it's nice to know if I ever wanted to make the trip down to VIR (9 hours from me), I could take the 135 instead.

Keep us posted what your shop says but if they can't figure it out I really think you should try to find a local member who's running Vorshlag, they're quite popular and I imagine it should be easy to spot someone at your next event who's running them.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Keep us posted what your shop says but if they can't figure it out I really think you should try to find a local member who's running Vorshlag, they're quite popular and I imagine it should be easy to spot someone at your next event who's running them.

Will update this thread with results for sure.

Im starting to regret getting the GC's over the Vorshlag's. It was not a question of saving $100, but more the marketing, and feedback about the "silent" GC Street plates model that convinced me I was making the right choice.

Too early to place the blame on GC yet, but something is up. One last thing to note is that I have been playing with tire pressure for the last week, trying to minimize or accentuate the rattling noise. Ive also tightened the strut tower bolts, jacked up the car and looked for play or loose parts anywhere, and did not find anything wrong. Im not finished with my tire pressure assessment yet, but will report back later today. I realize the RE-11 have stiff sidewalls , which likely transmit more vibrations when tilted sideways due to camber.

[pixelblue]

I had two sets of vorshlag plates and they both drove me crazy with all the noise. my first set got rebuilt but not too long thereafter the noise came back. got a new set and still had noise. very annoying! guess some people get lucky but I wasn't one of them. switching to vorshlags because they're quite is wishful thinking. I say go with dinan fixed plates if you don't want NVH.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

I had two sets of vorshlag plates and they both drove me crazy with all the noise. my first set got rebuilt but not too long thereafter the noise came back. got a new set and still had noise. very annoying! guess some people get lucky but I wasn't one of them. switching to vorshlags because they're quite is wishful thinking. I say go with dinan fixed plates if you don't want NVH.

Thanks for your feedback. Will keep this as an option, should the GC Streets prove to be the culprit.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

I had two sets of vorshlag plates and they both drove me crazy with all the noise. my first set got rebuilt but not too long thereafter the noise came back. got a new set and still had noise. very annoying! guess some people get lucky but I wasn't one of them. switching to vorshlags because they're quite is wishful thinking. I say go with dinan fixed plates if you don't want NVH.

I think you're in the minority, if you go on bimmerforums track section, most will report no noise. I've had mine for 2 years, 30+ track days and 15,000 street miles and no noise whatsoever. Make sure everything is torqued down.

[Bimmer-Bob]

I've had rattling noises with Dinan plates, GC plates, Bilstein PSS9's, Ohlins Road & Tracks, and now Swift springs. I'm concinced it's coil bind, because it has a rythmic quality to it & because everything else has been checked for tightness. About to try Eibach ERS springs, which have a barrel shape vs the straight shape of the Swifts. Should prevent binding of the terminal coils.

[Groundpilot]

Its not normal. If they are installed correctly, there should be no noise .
Check the top strut nuts. If they are loose, they may cause rattle.
They are not easy to tighten as you need to use an impact gun with correct torque spec. If these nuts are tight, the next reason for camber plates to make noise is loose bearings. You bougt them used? Personally i would never buy used camber plates that have bearings as they need to be rebuilt from time to time.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Its not normal. If they are installed correctly, there should be no noise .
Check the top strut nuts. If they are loose, they may cause rattle.
They are not easy to tighten as you need to use an impact gun with correct torque spec. If these nuts are tight, the next reason for camber plates to make noise is loose bearings. You bougt them used? Personally i would never buy used camber plates that have bearings as they need to be rebuilt from time to time.

Top three nuts checked on both sides and re-tightened.
Brand new M3 Control arms checked, and there is no play.
Sway bar end links checked, and no play.
GC Street plates are brand new, bought from from Ground Control directly, and installed a week ago.