iroll's dyno thread

[Obioban]

Me? M3? 328rwhp last time, hoping for ~340rwhp next time. Hopefully 360rwhp once I do cams.

[631twentyeighteye]

i meant at the stig, my mistake! I had the choice between 50k mile e46 m3 or a 25k mile 128. I went with the newer lower mileage car since it's main priority is a daily, and i heard that s54 maintenance can be expensive.. I still wish i got the e46 sometimes

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

i meant at the stig, my mistake! I had the choice between 50k mile e46 m3 or a 25k mile 128. I went with the newer lower mileage car since it's main priority is a daily, and i heard that s54 maintenance can be expensive.. I still wish i got the e46 sometimes

E46 M3 will financially destroy you if you attempt to maintain and mod it in a nickel and dime fashion.

I'll be dyno'd soon enough.

[JimD]

The only thing bugging me about the exhaust setup other than the exhaust manafold is the outlet from the muffler. The inlets are two pipes, I think I remember they are 55mm diameter, and the outlet is one pipe of about the same diameter. RealOEM's diagram shows a clamp of about 75mm on the outlet of the highest hp N52. If you look at the cross sectional areas, it makes sense to step up the outlet. One pipe 75mm is actually slightly less area than two pipes 55mm but would probably flow about the same (there are friction losses at the pipe surface that would be less for one larger pipe).

Long way of saying I think the outlet from the muffler is a potential "choke" point. But I don't know of an aftermarket exhaust that addresses it. Hopefully your dynos will be so good none of us will care.

[631twentyeighteye]

update: Exhaust leak fixed, cylinders 1 and 2 were leaking from gaskets crushed wrong(by me). new gaskets on all 6 cylinders fixed it. the 2nd bank o2 sensor bung was moved to above 120ish degree's from where it was. All check engine lights gone, everything fixed and back to better than stock.

@mapleridge 's headers were good for about 7hp and 10ft/lbs(std correction). Gains were throughout the entire range and most notable 3-4k rpm over the OE catted headers.

I imagine that Supersprints will be good for about 10-15hp and about that in torque. Overall, i'm very pleased with these considering their price.. Especially compared to supersprint.

STD correction



SAE correction

[maupineda]

Very good results!!!! ~25whp which should be very noticeable, I bet you are very happy!

[631twentyeighteye]

it is noticeable and i am very happy with it. The low end bump in torque makes daily driving situations more fun and less involving with clutch work, and now the top end really screams and pulls the car along nicely. For less than $1000 in parts(+$600 for the tune), i'm very happy with my numbers.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

it is noticeable and i am very happy with it. The low end bump in torque makes daily driving situations more fun and less involving with clutch work, and now the top end really screams and pulls the car along nicely. For less than $1000 in parts(+$600 for the tune), i'm very happy with my numbers.

Thanks for posting and I'm glad that everything is in tip top shape for you again. My tests were on a dynocom and I guess it reads a little higher than a dynojet.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

update: Exhaust leak fixed, cylinders 1 and 2 were leaking from gaskets crushed wrong(by me). new gaskets on all 6 cylinders fixed it. the 2nd bank o2 sensor bung was moved to above 120ish degree's from where it was. All check engine lights gone, everything fixed and back to better than stock.

@mapleridge 's headers were good for about 7hp and 10ft/lbs(std correction). Gains were throughout the entire range and most notable 3-4k rpm over the OE catted headers.

I imagine that Supersprints will be good for about 10-15hp and about that in torque. Overall, i'm very pleased with these considering their price.. Especially compared to supersprint.

STD correction



SAE correction

Supersprint's should be good for ~20. So... 3-4 times those. Aka, looks like the SS's are cheaper per hp.

[maupineda]

all that crap about SS is just guessing, there is no independent dyno that shows it. Until then it is just good wish.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by maupineda

all that crap about SS is just guessing, there is no independent dyno that shows it. Until then it is just good wish.

Except that historically, whenever independently dynoed, SuperSprint claimed gains are conservative. So no, it is neither "crap" or a "good wish".

[maupineda]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Except that historically, whenever independently dynoed, SuperSprint claimed gains are conservative. So no, it is neither "crap" or a "good wish".

Proove us otherwise. Even the dyno sheet on your header review thread, which shows a bump of 20hp, has a a value of 219.4 hp at the wheels, if you compare that number to the one in this thread I find hard to believe the SS are better in anyway other than emptying a wallet. And if you apply the same correction factor it means 631... member already has that magic number of 280.

And that number is at the expense of emissions, that is why the best is a true x30i with evolve remap! 280hps and still environment friendly.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by maupineda

Proove us otherwise. Even the dyno sheet on your header review thread, which shows a bump of 20hp, has a a value of 219.4 hp at the wheels, if you compare that number to the one in this thread I find hard to believe the SS are better in anyway other than emptying a wallet. And if you apply the same correction factor it means 631... member already has that magic number of 280.

And that number is at the expense of emissions, that is why the best is a true x30i with evolve remap! 280hps and still environment friendly.

Have you looked at the headers in this thread? The ONLY way they gain power vs stock is emissions delete. The SS headers have a hugely better design (and cat delete).

Honestly, not sure I've ever seen a worse aftermarket header design than the ones pictured in this thread.

I've also never seen SS claim more than they produce on any platform. Often they're significantly conservative.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by maupineda

Proove us otherwise. Even the dyno sheet on your header review thread, which shows a bump of 20hp, has a a value of 219.4 hp at the wheels, if you compare that number to the one in this thread I find hard to believe the SS are better in anyway other than emptying a wallet. And if you apply the same correction factor it means 631... member already has that magic number of 280.

And that number is at the expense of emissions, that is why the best is a true x30i with evolve remap! 280hps and still environment friendly.

That dyno is headers only. No DISA, no tune, no other mods at all. Purely SS headers installed to a car. As opposed to the car here which has all of that in addition to the mapleridge headers.

While your knowledge of BMWs is staggering, you are also wrong on the emission end of things as well. The US spec 128i has secondary cats as well as the primaries in the first exhaust section post headers. What that means for us is we get a more free flowing cat for free from the factory(good 400cell cats are $1000+), giving us the ability to both utilize a superior header design to the x30i and make more power while remaining environmentally friendly.

[631twentyeighteye]

Regardless, there's not much meat on the bone left. I highly doubt SS's will pull another 20hp over these and even if they do the $1000+ cost over these is not worth it in any way shape or form IMHO. It may be worth it to you or others, but not to me, therefore i'm happy with it.

Also, i believe that Supersprints dyno was done on a 125i which does have the DISA, although i assume you mean that the DISA isn't optimized via a tune.


Also i believe my dyno's may have been conservative. While driving around town today i got another CEL saying that my post cat o2's are reading rich.. prior to me fixing they were reading lean for about a week until the DME could learn how to correct the lean issue, after that week it drove perfectly fine again and those 2 codes cleared themselves. I've disconnected my battery and will find out shortly if that resets the computer and gets rid of the reading rich thing without having to drive it around for a week so it can learn to dial back the AFR's. If not, i'll drive it around and eventually they'll clear themselves just like the lean codes. No biggie.


edit: disconnecting the battery doesn't clear it, not surprisingly. It'll clear itself in a few days like it did last time. Still runs great anyway.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

Regardless, there's not much meat on the bone left. I highly doubt SS's will pull another 20hp over these and even if they do the $1000+ cost over these is not worth it in any way shape or form IMHO. It may be worth it to you or others, but not to me, therefore i'm happy with it.

Also, i believe that Supersprints dyno was done on a 125i which does have the DISA, although i assume you mean that the DISA isn't optimized via a tune.


Also i believe my dyno's may have been conservative. While driving around town today i got another CEL saying that my post cat o2's are reading rich.. prior to me fixing they were reading lean for about a week until the DME could learn how to correct the lean issue, after that week it drove perfectly fine again and those 2 codes cleared themselves. I've disconnected my battery and will find out shortly if that resets the computer and gets rid of the reading rich thing without having to drive it around for a week so it can learn to dial back the AFR's. If not, i'll drive it around and eventually they'll clear themselves just like the lean codes. No biggie.


edit: disconnecting the battery doesn't clear it, not surprisingly. It'll clear itself in a few days like it did last time. Still runs great anyway.

Sounds like a shitty tune.

[631twentyeighteye]

Yeah i don't know what the deal is. I'm going to be contacting AA shortly about this. I might reflash the tune on tomorrow to see if that helps at all.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

Regardless, there's not much meat on the bone left. I highly doubt SS's will pull another 20hp over these and even if they do the $1000+ cost over these is not worth it in any way shape or form IMHO. It may be worth it to you or others, but not to me, therefore i'm happy with it.

Also, i believe that Supersprints dyno was done on a 125i which does have the DISA, although i assume you mean that the DISA isn't optimized via a tune.

Your headers: $107 per HP
Supersprint: $78 per HP

Whatever the total cost is, on a per horsepower basis(which is how all power mods should be valuated), they are cheaper. To say the mapleridge headers are cheaper is a bit like saying an intake is cheaper than the DISA manifold for power. While true, it is also an irrelevant statement.

The comment on the power figures was in response to how your currently 219hp is from a whole suite of power mods, while the 219hp in the SS header dyno is just from them.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Supersprint's should be good for ~20. So... 3-4 times those. Aka, looks like the SS's are cheaper per hp.

Originally Posted by Obioban

Have you looked at the headers in this thread? The ONLY way they gain power vs stock is emissions delete. The SS headers have a hugely better design (and cat delete).

Honestly, not sure I've ever seen a worse aftermarket header design than the ones pictured in this thread.

I've also never seen SS claim more than they produce on any platform. Often they're significantly conservative.

I would really like to see a dyno on the supersprint headers and preferably more than one. I understand they have a good reputation but that alone doesn't put a numeric value to their performance. I think you are more correct in comparing $/HP and you can't really make a conclusion until you have actual facts.

The dyno in this thread is just one of 3 doing a cat delete.



DIMSUM did a cat delete and had higher gains with no tune. Using his dyno plus a write up from a race team who chose to do this over SS, because o HP/$ I went the route that I did.

Also, as I stated, I had about 10whp and closer to around 15wtq on a dynocom.

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

That dyno is headers only. No DISA, no tune, no other mods at all. Purely SS headers installed to a car. As opposed to the car here which has all of that in addition to the mapleridge headers.

Are you referring to this Dyno?



This car is a 3.0si, which would mean he has the 3 stage manifold, factory tuned plus the headers.

Also, this dyno of the SS headers didn't have the 20hp gains obioban is suggesting.

Description reads:

On a '06 car with this configuration: Supersprint complete exhaust 2x54mm 100% stainless steel: - Manifold 789001 - Kat R.+ L. 200cpsi 789002 - Centre exhaust 789003 - Rear exh. 789006 The car went from: Horsepower 257,7 Hp at 6765 rev/min Torque 295,3 Nm at 2875 rev/min Actual data: Horsepower 264,4 Hp at 6785 rev/min Torque 312,1 Nm at 3960 rev/min I would say good results with a NA car not chipped.


Ultimately, I would be more than happy to pay for someone to get a baseline and then post ss header on a dynojet, so we can see some real numbers

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Your headers: $107 per HP
Supersprint: $78 per HP

Whatever the total cost is, on a per horsepower basis(which is how all power mods should be valuated), they are cheaper. To say the mapleridge headers are cheaper is a bit like saying an intake is cheaper than the DISA manifold for power. While true, it is also an irrelevant statement.

The comment on the power figures was in response to how your currently 219hp is from a whole suite of power mods, while the 219hp in the SS header dyno is just from them.

Eh, I'd say they should be evaluated on...
$/hp
Hp gained (normally the last couple hp cost more)
Build quality (materials, collectors, welds)
Fitment

SuperSprint happens to be the best in every category (other than sometimes the first, though that too in this case), which is why I go with them again and again. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. Plus, every time I don't do something right the first time, I end up redoing it later on. Better to skip the cheap step from the beginning, as it ends up being more expensive in the end doing both.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Eh, I'd say they should be evaluated on...
$/hp
Hp gained (normally the last couple hp cost more)
Build quality (materials, collectors, welds)
Fitment

SuperSprint happens to be the best in every category (other than sometimes the first, though that too in this case), which is why I go with them again and again. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. Plus, every time I don't do something right the first time, I end up redoing it later on. Better to skip the cheap step from the beginning.

Indeed.

I should have been clearer, but I was referring to the cost aspect, not the overall qualities.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Eh, I'd say they should be evaluated on...
$/hp
Hp gained (normally the last couple hp cost more)
Build quality (materials, collectors, welds)
Fitment

SuperSprint happens to be the best in every category (other than sometimes the first, though that too in this case), which is why I go with them again and again. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. Plus, every time I don't do something right the first time, I end up redoing it later on. Better to skip the cheap step from the beginning.

There isn't enough data on the performance gains from the SS headers to say what $/hp is so I don't see how you can make that conclusion. The youtube video shows about 7hp gain. Also, if there wasn't that mess up with the one o2 bung on mine fitment would be perfect. I will correct that on the ones I have remaining.

SS definitely have better material and I would not doubt their welds are better.

There is very minimal data on the SS headers. Here's another dyno, but on a mustang dyno:

215WHP full bolt on. It is not on a dynojet so make of it what you will.