1 Series M Coupe vs RS3 - Specs and Styling Compared

[hangover]

Hot hatches are coming http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publi...cle_2831.shtml

[Art__Vandelay]

That would be pretty fast, but it's well known that Audi usually dispatch, well let's say a little bit more powerful exemplars for such tests (it's an open secret in Germany).

[335iTrace]

I agree with who ever said they'd rather save some dough and buy an STi or EVO.... IMO both these cars are fail.

The 1M to me... is a total disappointment. Sure it is quick, but the looks do nothing for me nor does the price tag! No CF Roof, or power-dome, or real fender vent makes it look cheep outside and definitely inside. Two buttons to do what one could have done, just a disappointment... IMO...

The RS3 looks great till your get 3/4s the way and then it just gets plain... LOVE the INT though.. Audi does a great job on INTs.

But for the money... give me the STi/EVO and Ill take that 10-15k I save and make it a monster. Cold hard facts you can not argue with... period.

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by hks786

I heard that the new RS3 did the ring in 8.09. I dont know what the source of this is though. We have already heard the time of 8.12 for the 1M. It will be interesting to see how the 1M and RS3 compare.

I think it was the 8.09 SportAuto time for the TTRS you heard.

[fuzzy_dunlop]

Originally Posted by 335iTrace

Cold hard facts you can not argue with... period.

I'm confused... where are your cold hard facts I can not argue with?

Sorry, but when someone adds in a line like that, you are either baiting for an argument or you believe that your opinion is indeed a fact. Either way, your opinion loses all credibility, no matter what side of the line I fall on. In fact, even if I at first agreed with you, I may be pushed to the other side just because it sounds like you are trying to hard.

If it is directed at your last statement... then sure, I guess it is a cold hard fact that you can buy parts for a car with money that would have been spent on a more expensive car. You are right, I cannot argue with that.

Money buys things. Cars are a mode of transportation. Stating facts is fun!

Anyway, again, I apologize, this is just a pet peeve of mine and I had to vent.

[poody]

Originally Posted by 335iTrace

I agree with who ever said they'd rather save some dough and buy an STi or EVO.... IMO both these cars are fail.

The 1M to me... is a total disappointment. Sure it is quick, but the looks do nothing for me nor does the price tag! No CF Roof, or power-dome, or real fender vent makes it look cheep outside and definitely inside. Two buttons to do what one could have done, just a disappointment... IMO...

The RS3 looks great till your get 3/4s the way and then it just gets plain... LOVE the INT though.. Audi does a great job on INTs.

But for the money... give me the STi/EVO and Ill take that 10-15k I save and make it a monster. Cold hard facts you can not argue with... period.

I completely agree with this poster. 1M's faux fender vents was a total turn off for me. I couldn't care less about the cf roof bec aluminium is light enough. But for the money STI > RS3 hatch/R Golf, hot hatch debate in terms of performance. And not to be biased but I do own an 09 STI.

[valeram]

Originally Posted by BMWAutoXer

Personally I think they both look ugly, so I would save 15K USD and buy an STI or EVO if I wanted killer performance in a goofy looking body. TT-RS on the other hand is win.

Yes I know it's subjective, I just think both companies could have done a better job refining for the release.

x2

[hks786]

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

I think it was the 8.09 SportAuto time for the TTRS you heard.

That's true, that is the TT-RS time. However, someone posted the same time for the RS3 on an Audi forum (rs6.com). I doubt they were the exact same time round the track especially with the weight difference.

[BMWAutoXer]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I'm curious if you've spent enough time in a haldex car to get used to it? I prefer a full-time 4wd, but the haldex is quite good once you get used to it- most of the people that trash it don't have enough seat-time to adapt. Certainly the haldex is going to let the RS3 crush the 1M on a wet road... Which won't stop me getting the 1M.

There are plenty of great Haldex AWD systems, like that in the Veyron. Unfortunately, the one most manufacturers stick in their cars are like what they use in the A3/Q5/Tiguan/Passat 4-Motion. It is complete crap. I've had hours upon hours to get used to them. They're wasted weight and only good for accelerating from a stop on snowy flat roads. Throw an incline in the mix and its useless again. At speed and for performance the entire drivetrain is a joke.

[Ryan_T]

1M for sure.

And I'm an Audi fan.


Interior is nicer on the RS3.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by BMWAutoXer

Unfortunately, the one most manufacturers stick in their cars are like what they use in the A3/Q5/Tiguan/Passat 4-Motion. It is complete crap. I've had hours upon hours to get used to them. They're wasted weight and only good for accelerating from a stop on snowy flat roads. Throw an incline in the mix and its useless again. At speed and for performance the entire drivetrain is a joke.

Well I guess you're entitled to your opinion. I must say it sounds very biased and uninformed based on my experience.

One could say I'm baised as well, as I own an R32 with haldex. I try to stay objective, though, and I've owned a string of 4wd cars (UR quattro, WRX, Audi 4.2, etc). I've also owned around a dozen porsches and some M cars.

I took my R32 (with your dreaded haldex) to an SCCA autocross once- I generally take the 911, but it was raining. The car is a completely stock down to the spare tire in the back... In three runs (with no course walk) I placed 3rd out of 140 cars at the event. This was with 240 treadware street tires vs many modded cars of all classes, a number running hoosier wets. I was beaten by a couple STIs, but took out more than a few of them (and modded 996TTs, evos, and 10 BMWs).

Now either I'm a god among drivers, or that "wasted weight" might be good for something other than "flat, snowy roads"...

The fact is that I find the R32 a bit of an understeering pig if you don't adapt your driving. You need to be purposeful, almost using a Scandinavian flick to get the tail working in the dry. Once you do get it moving, though, you can do nice power-down drifts with the tail a few degrees out around low to medium speed sweepers. And if you're tidy it's a very quick back-road tool. It's not a great dry track car and I'd prefer it to be more neutral, but I think you're a fool to underestimate haldex as you are. The RS-3 will run the 1M close in the dry, and simply run away and hide in wet or damp conditions. That's completely down to the haldex...

Again, I'm still in line for the 1M, but your opinion sounds pretty uninformed to me.

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by 335iTrace

I agree with who ever said they'd rather save some dough and buy an STi or EVO.... IMO both these cars are fail.

The 1M to me... is a total disappointment. Sure it is quick, but the looks do nothing for me nor does the price tag! No CF Roof, or power-dome, or real fender vent makes it look cheep outside and definitely inside. Two buttons to do what one could have done, just a disappointment... IMO...

The RS3 looks great till your get 3/4s the way and then it just gets plain... LOVE the INT though.. Audi does a great job on INTs.

But for the money... give me the STi/EVO and Ill take that 10-15k I save and make it a monster. Cold hard facts you can not argue with... period.

You complain that the 1M looks cheap to you, yet you'd buy a STI or EVO?

The RS3 interior IMO is actually pretty awful, the rest of the lineup has AMAZING interiors, the RS3's is the stepchild of the family.

I had a 08 STI that I just recently traded in for a 370z, I put about 10k into it, and it was beyond amazing; but to live with? I wouldn't be able to live with that as my only car.

For someone who's only going to get one car, the 1M is a pretty sweet deal

[BMWAutoXer]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Well I guess you're entitled to your opinion. I must say it sounds very biased and uninformed based on my experience.

One could say I'm baised as well, as I own an R32 with haldex. I try to stay objective, though, and I've owned a string of 4wd cars (UR quattro, WRX, Audi 4.2, etc). I've also owned around a dozen porsches and some M cars.

I took my R32 (with your dreaded haldex) to an SCCA autocross once- I generally take the 911, but it was raining. The car is a completely stock down to the spare tire in the back... In three runs (with no course walk) I placed 3rd out of 140 cars at the event. This was with 240 treadware street tires vs many modded cars of all classes, a number running hoosier wets. I was beaten by a couple STIs, but took out more than a few of them (and modded 996TTs, evos, and 10 BMWs).

Now either I'm a god among drivers, or that "wasted weight" might be good for something other than "flat, snowy roads"...

The fact is that I find the R32 a bit of an understeering pig if you don't adapt your driving. You need to be purposeful, almost using a Scandinavian flick to get the tail working in the dry. Once you do get it moving, though, you can do nice power-down drifts with the tail a few degrees out around low to medium speed sweepers. And if you're tidy it's a very quick back-road tool. It's not a great dry track car and I'd prefer it to be more neutral, but I think you're a fool to underestimate haldex as you are. The RS-3 will run the 1M close in the dry, and simply run away and hide in wet or damp conditions. That's completely down to the haldex...

Again, I'm still in line for the 1M, but your opinion sounds pretty uninformed to me.

No underestimating, just calling it like it is. Re-read your post, you had to go through the same headaches I did to re-learn the cars hassles and try to overcome them. I've been through both generation R32, GTI, 997 911 TT, STi, EVO, SVT Focus, Mini Cooper S (S/C years) and run through thousands of track hours. It's been my passion for over 20 years. Any car has shortcomings, but when it comes to VWGA they have more than their fair share. For their capital, they should have a better system than a Haldex in their famed quattro name. There was no excuse for excluding a real AWD system from that setup. From a brand standpoint, I'm very disappointed in Audi calling a haldex dif quattro. When the rubber meets the road, you can't possibly compare the system in the A3/Passat 4-mo/Q5/Tiguan to what they have in the A4/S4 and what they build their brand on. You obviously know what you're talking about, and I think you misunderstood my point. And if you ever take your R32 and a similar power and suspension tuned GTI back to back around a wet course with the same tires, you'll realize the AWD has very little to do with your driving skill, so hats off to you for running the competition.

In 2004 I bought an SVT Focus and ran G Stock for a couple seasons. My second year I ran one wet autoX placed 3rd overall ahead of everything from ZO6 Vettes to comp cars. You should have seen the looks on some of their faces when they saw the times coming from an NA Focus with FWD.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by BMWAutoXer

...if you ever take your R32 and a similar power and suspension tuned GTI back to back around a wet course with the same tires, you'll realize the AWD has very little to do with your driving skill, so hats off to you for running the competition.

Here is where I disagree and think you're underestimating the haldex. While I admit I don't have enough seat-time to judge the GTI's speed from personal experience, the other cars and big track times I have seen generally put the R32 a couple seconds clear of the same year GTI, and that's before you take wet conditions into account. At the wet AX I mentioned the top 6 cars were all 4wd- 4x STIs, 1 WRX and the R32- nothing without 4wd was working. Remember SCCA classes the R32 in D stock vs G stock for the GTI for a reason despite similar practical power to weight ratios. There is zero doubt in my mind that the R gets power down much better than the GTI, and there is even less doubt that the RS3 would be pretty worthless with ~340 hp through the front wheels only.

That said, everyone agrees the previous gen haldex is somewhat inferior to systems in the S4, etc, so if you're basically saying in an extreme way that you'd prefer that, I agree... On the limit, the reactive nature of the previous haldex system forces you to intentionally provoke the response in order for it to be there exactly when you want it. Similar to the older 911s, actually, in which sliding the tail is an ally if you intentionally provoke it, but less so if you let it do it's own thing. Perhaps I'm used to driving around "imperfections", but this behavior doesn't bother me much. I'm sure they impact pace vs a better system even after you adapt, but not nearly as much as you make out (feel and feedback are arguably another matter).

The most serious complaints I have with the R32's drive system look like they have been addressed in the RS3. The cast iron brick that passes for the R32's motor has been swapped for a lighter aluminum unit, so understeer will be greatly reduced. It sounds as though the haldex has moved from being to a passively reactive system to a proactive system, which should help the feel and feedback. In the end, like almost any 4wd car you care to name, it's not going to be as adjustable and arguably rewarding as a RWD car, but the times clearly show that pace is there (especially in mixed conditions), which simply wouldn't be the case if the RS3 was FWD. Thus you can hate the feel and feedback of the haldex all you want, but I don't think you can argue it doesn't work.

[///M1]

Here is Audi's video 'response' to the 1 ///M video ;-o) Sure doesn't sound that great on the camera, though I have heard people praising the sound of the TT-RS sharing the same engine.

[red355]

The One series has always looked a bit of a mixture of styles to us...so i can see my wife goes with one. Therefore for us the Rs3 is everything we need...hatch & 5 doors, auto for that drive to work...and fair value.

Maybe its looks are a bit too flashy, I really wanted a sleeper.

I pretty much was a BMW man for the last 20 years but having moved from a 335D to my RS4 V8 earlier this year I just can see me going back to BMW until they sort out the quality of the interiors. I do miss something like the crackin logic 7 and 40+ MPG but the RS4 is very special.

A work mate has a mod'd TT RS and its a proper B road monster ...the haldex is certainly working well in this latest generation (gen4?).


i'm sure if I had a drive in a 1M i'd be keen to order one...but the RS3 got us first

[onehungevo]

I hate the hatch but AWD is great.

[///M1]

Originally Posted by red355

I pretty much was a BMW man for the last 20 years but having moved from a 335D to my RS4 V8 earlier this year I just can see me going back to BMW until they sort out the quality of the interiors. I do miss something like the crackin logic 7 and 40+ MPG but the RS4 is very special.

Post pics of your Avant please, wish we got it here (in a bonehead move AofA decided to import the cabrio, not Avant )

[as7920]

RS3 Configurator now online @ AUDI UK Website:

http://configurator.audi.co.uk/?.html

Best regards,

Mark.

[Joer]

Originally Posted by as7920

RS3 Configurator now online @ AUDI UK Website:

http://configurator.audi.co.uk/?.html

Best regards,

Mark.

Nice one Mark. There a few more options to choose from... Mine came to just over 43K.

[as7920]

Originally Posted by Joer

Nice one Mark. There a few more options to choose from... Mine came to just over 43K.

Same cost as the one I had too! So about £1k cheaper than 1M.

Good that prices for both cars and options already include 20% VAT so we don't have to worry about a price increase next year.

Funny though, still not many colour choices and no blue as standard. Have to pay £1500 for the privilege.
Personally I would choose the blue from the VW R range! LOL

[Racing Teatray]

Originally Posted by as7920

Funny though, still not many colour choices and no blue as standard. Have to pay £1500 for the privilege.
Personally I would choose the blue from the VW R range! LOL

Good that with the RS3 you can at least officially stump up the extra for other colours, both for the paint and the leather, unlike the 1M!

Personally, having played with the Configurator, I was pleased to see the blingy silver bits at the front are entirely optional, so I'd be tempted to go for Daytona Grey (looks awesome IMHO) with the black optical pack for maximum stealth.

Though if I was feeling flush, Mugello Blue with a dark brown leather interior would be nice...