BMW M1 Spotted Again

AlBel1214 · 02-13-2010, 02:34 PM

^^^M2?? huh?

Remonster · 02-13-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtsherri

Jason
jtsherri (IF it has at least 350 hp, weighs 3300 lbs or less, has DCT, LSD & CF roof... and while unlikely, I'm OK with no back seat.)

You can always take the back seat out yourself...

Tallest · 02-13-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

^^^M2?? huh?

Yes, and apparently 2.2 litre turbo 4.

TunedM2C · 02-13-2010, 03:10 PM

^ I don't think so my man.

SCOTT26 · 02-13-2010, 03:39 PM

If you go back further to our registrations you can see the "M2" name has been registered for quite a few years partly because BMW had advocated the idea of using the 2er insignia for the current 1er Coupe and Cabrio and renaming the 3er Coupe and Cabrio as a 4er. My first viewing of these cars earlier this past decade were badged as 220i and 435i The general idea was for the Coupe and Cabrio models to provide a continuity with the larger 6er which was about to be launched.

The ideas behind the 4er are seen in today's E92 and E93 before the Life Cycle Impulse last month. Namely that the Coupe and Cabrio are not just a 2dr 3er sedan it's a proper coupe with an individual appearance to the regular sedan. The same idea will be carried over to the next 3er Coupe (F32).

The stumbling block however was the M3 to which end the car ended up retaining the 3er and the 2er reverted back to 1er because continuity was in chaos.

The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand.

At the focus group BMW showed the M E82 amongst the standard and BMW Performance packet we also asked to pick a suitable title...and they did.
We then went back after lunch straight into a meeting with marketing , design and the directors of BMW and M Division , Marketing and design are located next to each other so both departments can feed off the creativity of each other. In marketing it is important to collect the thoughts and feelings of the designer to approach how to market the concept. " I feel like driving this car across a deserted "le Viaduc de Millau" the clouds below me" is one such form of creativity - Great we can use that and we did.

So before we showed the results we told them " I do not think some of you may like this " then we showed them that the focus group registered M1 as the favourite with the most votes. It was simply because of the demographic who are much used to the 1er rather than the M1 from 1978.
With their heritage knowledge of BMW be it M3,M5, M6 they chose M1 also because it offers continuity with the rest of the M products.

The next generation M-1 will not be seen until mid-late 2014 so there is essentially a gap in the timeline to allow the E82 flourish before the F22 Coupe is introduced in 2013. The 1er 5dr Sporthatch comes first in 2011 , then it will be the 3dr Sporthatch in 2012 followed by the Coupe and then Cabrio.

Tallest · 02-13-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuned1

^ I don't think so my man.

of course we don't know till it's confirmed.

in any case I think the new m1 or m2 will be a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. And that's great whatever it's called.

BMW269 · 02-13-2010, 04:21 PM

@SCOTT26: I always thought about the naming. Of course now it should be called M1 and not M2 as the 1 Series Coupé is not called 2 Series Coupé. But I think the next generations F22 and F32 must be called 2 Series/M2 and 4 Series/M4. Maybe many will not agree with it, because "M3" sounds better, there is a lot of history behind. But finally, what made the succes of the M3? Not it's name, but what it is. Then, the next M3 F32 will be very different, as it will be the first to have FI, and maybe V6. By the way, if it will get V6, won't it be to expensive? What to do with all other I6? Or will the V6 TT be a derived version of V8 TT, so 4.4l V8 TT - 2 cylinders = 3.3l V6 TT?
Well about the naming it will be very logical:
round numbers for Coupes and Convertables: 2 Series, 4 Series, 6 Series and even 8 Series, Z2, Z4, X2, X6
and
unround numbers for Sedans and Tourings: 1 Series, 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series, X1, X3, X5.
The only problem is now with the BMW based on the MINI if there will be one. Can it be called 0 Series?
I think YES. 335i, we do not say "three-hundred thirty-five" but "three thirty-five".
So we shall then say:
"Wow, have you seen the new BMW "zero sixteen" (016i)? It is much faster and better looking than the Audi S1."

southlight · 02-13-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

1) Jason

We need to talk to BMW about group buy discounts...

Best regards,
south

Numb3rs · 02-13-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

275 wide tires no sir.

The M3 E46 with 343 hp had 255 rear and 225 front. Even the new m3 does not have 275 wide on the rear.

I think we see E46 m3 sizes and maybe front a bit wider to 235

well...

Please look at the tid-bits Scott has been giving us and the direction that the M1 is going... it will have 100ft-lbs more torque than the M3, early in it's powerband.

That torque is not usable without FAT tires. You cannot compare the infinite powerband of the M3, to this 370ft-lbs(@ 1300rpm) M1 car.. which to make full use of the engine, will require traction to put down that early power. Squat and meaty!

It's all speculation, but don't be surprised if I am correct. Just look at the last gen Corvette to see how light, torquey cars benefit from being able to dig-in to the tarmac. Or, even the M6... with 385ft-lbs and 285's in the back..

235/265 @ minimum..

sid33 · 02-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Said it once ill say it again.. im saving . . . NOW ! ! !

dmboone25 · 02-15-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

If you go back further to our registrations you can see the "M2" name has been registered for quite a few years partly because BMW had advocated the idea of using the 2er insignia for the current 1er Coupe and Cabrio and renaming the 3er Coupe and Cabrio as a 4er. My first viewing of these cars earlier this past decade were badged as 220i and 435i The general idea was for the Coupe and Cabrio models to provide a continuity with the larger 6er which was about to be launched.

The ideas behind the 4er are seen in today's E92 and E93 before the Life Cycle Impulse last month. Namely that the Coupe and Cabrio are not just a 2dr 3er sedan it's a proper coupe with an individual appearance to the regular sedan. The same idea will be carried over to the next 3er Coupe (F32).

The stumbling block however was the M3 to which end the car ended up retaining the 3er and the 2er reverted back to 1er because continuity was in chaos.

The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand.

At the focus group BMW showed the M E82 amongst the standard and BMW Performance packet we also asked to pick a suitable title...and they did.
We then went back after lunch straight into a meeting with marketing , design and the directors of BMW and M Division , Marketing and design are located next to each other so both departments can feed off the creativity of each other. In marketing it is important to collect the thoughts and feelings of the designer to approach how to market the concept. " I feel like driving this car across a deserted "le Viaduc de Millau" the clouds below me" is one such form of creativity - Great we can use that and we did.

So before we showed the results we told them " I do not think some of you may like this " then we showed them that the focus group registered M1 as the favourite with the most votes. It was simply because of the demographic who are much used to the 1er rather than the M1 from 1978.
With their heritage knowledge of BMW be it M3,M5, M6 they chose M1 also because it offers continuity with the rest of the M products.

The next generation M-1 will not be seen until mid-late 2014 so there is essentially a gap in the timeline to allow the E82 flourish before the F22 Coupe is introduced in 2013. The 1er 5dr Sporthatch comes first in 2011 , then it will be the 3dr Sporthatch in 2012 followed by the Coupe and then Cabrio.

Wow.....There is a lot of information in this post....and it is really nice to have the thoughts and perspective of a BMW insider dropping us information....

Thanks again Scott!

BForbes · 02-15-2010, 09:21 AM

It looks like its been reiterated. IT SHALL BE CALLED AN M1!!!

hector · 02-15-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The next generation M-1 will not be seen until mid-late 2014 so there is essentially a gap in the timeline to allow the E82 flourish before the F22 Coupe is introduced in 2013. The 1er 5dr Sporthatch comes first in 2011 , then it will be the 3dr Sporthatch in 2012 followed by the Coupe and then Cabrio.

scott, thx for the info! a question:will the coupe be much sportier than the sporthatches in terms of powertrains/chassis etc.(as the 6 is compared to the 5) or will the difference be essentially just in the shell? i'd wait for the coupe if it's going to be dynamically distanced from the hatches but otherwise i'll jump on the hatch when it's released.

Advevo · 02-15-2010, 12:18 PM

qoute from scott

The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand.

That s a strange sentence if i read it again.

That means a magnesium 6 cil is to nose heavy and 135i with turbo and hoses and intercooler is lighter and better for use in a 1 series ///M. I know for sure a 6 cil alu/mag engine is lighter than a 6 cil biturbo that s for sure.

I have had and still have a 130i street and racecar and i have also owned a 135i i can tell you the 135i is far more nose heavy than the 130i with alu magnesium engine.

The choice ///M has for this car is either the alu magnesium high rev 6 cilinder or a 4 cil turbo. I can tell you a 6 cil turbo with all the extra hoses and intercoolers is far to nose heavy for good cornering. The 135i is worse in cornering than a 130i so why on earth should bmw ///M put in a heavier 6 cil turbo.

BMW269 · 02-15-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

qoute from scott

The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand.

That s a strange sentence if i read it again.

That means a magnesium 6 cil is to nose heavy and 135i with turbo and hoses and intercooler is lighter and better for use in a 1 series ///M. I know for sure a 6 cil alu/mag engine is lighter than a 6 cil biturbo that s for sure. But is is true the N54 is mcuh more heavy than the N52 (135i much more heavy than 130i).

I have had and still have a 130i street and racecar and i have also owned a 135i i can tell you the 135i is far more nose heavy than the 130i with alu magnesium engine.

The choice ///M has for this car is either the alu magnesium high rev 6 cilinder or a 4 cil turbo. I can tell you a 6 cil turbo with all the extra hoses and intercoolers is far to nose heavy for good cornering. The 135i is worse in cornering than a 130i so why on earth should bmw ///M put in a heavier 6 cil turbo.

The M3 E46 S52 I6 engine is not magnesium but cast metal. It is even heavier than the M3 E9X S65 V8.

BMW269 · 02-15-2010, 01:36 PM

BMW 130i E81: 1450 kg, 0-100 km/h in 6.0 sec (6MT)
BMW 135i E82: 1560 kg, 0-100 km/h in 5.3 sec (6MT)
BMW 335i E92: 1600 kg, 0-100 km/h in 5.5 sec (6MT)
BMW Z4 35is E89: 1600 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.8 sec (7DCT)
BMW M3 E92: 1655 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.8 sec (6MT)
BMW M3 E92: 1675 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.6 sec (7DCT)
BMW M6 E63: 1785 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.6 sec (7SMG)
so:
BMW M1 E82: 1480 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4,8 sec (6MT)
BMW M1 E82: 1500 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4,6 sec (7DCT)

The M1 E82 shall be the same fast as M3 E92, if not faster. M1 F22 and M3 F32 shall be a diferent story because:
FI I6 = NA V8
FI I4 < FI I6
Example: Audi S3 FI I4 < Audi S4 FI V6.

Advevo · 02-15-2010, 04:21 PM

i know that engine is cast levi

But no way a cast e46 m3 engine is heavier than a 135i engine with all turbo bits on hoses intercooler etc.

So the idea of lower weight e46 m3 engine is axed in favor of an turbo d 6 cil engine which would be not as nose heavy. For me that s a big laugh. If the M1 gets a 4cil in favour of the e46 M3 engine than it s thought over. But i find it stupid if ///M have put in a 6 cil turbo if you talk about nose heavy like scott says.

02-13-2010, 02:34 PM	#45
AlBel1214 Major 52 Rep 1,118 Posts Drives: past 135i, now c6, future M3?? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	^^^M2?? huh? __________________ -----LS3 C6----- *z51 suspension,* *NPP dual mode exhaust(wild2mild),20% tint,* zr1 replica wheels, gloss black fender stripes** R.I.P SGM 135i w/ some mods
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02-13-2010, 03:10 PM	#48
TunedM2C Brigadier General 828 Rep 4,190 Posts Drives: 2016 LBB M2 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (2)	^ I don't think so my man.
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02-13-2010, 03:39 PM	#49
SCOTT26 Major General 5306 Rep 5,824 Posts Drives: A big F-off German Truck. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WORLDWIDE iTrader: (0)	If you go back further to our registrations you can see the "M2" name has been registered for quite a few years partly because BMW had advocated the idea of using the 2er insignia for the current 1er Coupe and Cabrio and renaming the 3er Coupe and Cabrio as a 4er. My first viewing of these cars earlier this past decade were badged as 220i and 435i The general idea was for the Coupe and Cabrio models to provide a continuity with the larger 6er which was about to be launched. The ideas behind the 4er are seen in today's E92 and E93 before the Life Cycle Impulse last month. Namely that the Coupe and Cabrio are not just a 2dr 3er sedan it's a proper coupe with an individual appearance to the regular sedan. The same idea will be carried over to the next 3er Coupe (F32). The stumbling block however was the M3 to which end the car ended up retaining the 3er and the 2er reverted back to 1er because continuity was in chaos. The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand. At the focus group BMW showed the M E82 amongst the standard and BMW Performance packet we also asked to pick a suitable title...and they did. We then went back after lunch straight into a meeting with marketing , design and the directors of BMW and M Division , Marketing and design are located next to each other so both departments can feed off the creativity of each other. In marketing it is important to collect the thoughts and feelings of the designer to approach how to market the concept. " I feel like driving this car across a deserted "le Viaduc de Millau" the clouds below me" is one such form of creativity - Great we can use that and we did. So before we showed the results we told them " I do not think some of you may like this " then we showed them that the focus group registered M1 as the favourite with the most votes. It was simply because of the demographic who are much used to the 1er rather than the M1 from 1978. With their heritage knowledge of BMW be it M3,M5, M6 they chose M1 also because it offers continuity with the rest of the M products. The next generation M-1 will not be seen until mid-late 2014 so there is essentially a gap in the timeline to allow the E82 flourish before the F22 Coupe is introduced in 2013. The 1er 5dr Sporthatch comes first in 2011 , then it will be the 3dr Sporthatch in 2012 followed by the Coupe and then Cabrio.
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02-13-2010, 04:21 PM	#51
BMW269 Brigadier General 433 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	@SCOTT26: I always thought about the naming. Of course now it should be called M1 and not M2 as the 1 Series Coupé is not called 2 Series Coupé. But I think the next generations F22 and F32 must be called 2 Series/M2 and 4 Series/M4. Maybe many will not agree with it, because "M3" sounds better, there is a lot of history behind. But finally, what made the succes of the M3? Not it's name, but what it is. Then, the next M3 F32 will be very different, as it will be the first to have FI, and maybe V6. By the way, if it will get V6, won't it be to expensive? What to do with all other I6? Or will the V6 TT be a derived version of V8 TT, so 4.4l V8 TT - 2 cylinders = 3.3l V6 TT? Well about the naming it will be very logical: round numbers for Coupes and Convertables: 2 Series, 4 Series, 6 Series and even 8 Series, Z2, Z4, X2, X6 and unround numbers for Sedans and Tourings: 1 Series, 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series, X1, X3, X5. The only problem is now with the BMW based on the MINI if there will be one. Can it be called 0 Series? I think YES. 335i, we do not say "three-hundred thirty-five" but "three thirty-five". So we shall then say: "Wow, have you seen the new BMW "zero sixteen" (016i)? It is much faster and better looking than the Audi S1." Last edited by BMW269; 02-13-2010 at 04:29 PM..
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02-13-2010, 07:28 PM	#54
sid33 Enthusiast 25 Rep 300 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW 335xi [0.00]	Said it once ill say it again.. im saving . . . NOW ! ! ! __________________ 2012 BMW 335xi Coupe - Black (Sold) 2011 BMW 335d - Titanium Silver (Sold) 2011 BMW M3 Coupe - Space Gray (Sold)
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02-15-2010, 09:21 AM	#56
BForbes Moderator 557 Rep 4,240 Posts Drives: BSM 135i/AW E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orlando, FL iTrader: (0)	It looks like its been reiterated. IT SHALL BE CALLED AN M1!!! __________________ - 04 Honda S2000(gone)
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02-15-2010, 12:18 PM	#58
Advevo Banned 581 Rep 1,170 Posts Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Country where the taxes are too high!! iTrader: (0)	qoute from scott The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand. That s a strange sentence if i read it again. That means a magnesium 6 cil is to nose heavy and 135i with turbo and hoses and intercooler is lighter and better for use in a 1 series ///M. I know for sure a 6 cil alu/mag engine is lighter than a 6 cil biturbo that s for sure. I have had and still have a 130i street and racecar and i have also owned a 135i i can tell you the 135i is far more nose heavy than the 130i with alu magnesium engine. The choice ///M has for this car is either the alu magnesium high rev 6 cilinder or a 4 cil turbo. I can tell you a 6 cil turbo with all the extra hoses and intercoolers is far to nose heavy for good cornering. The 135i is worse in cornering than a 130i so why on earth should bmw ///M put in a heavier 6 cil turbo.
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02-15-2010, 01:36 PM	#60
BMW269 Brigadier General 433 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	BMW 130i E81: 1450 kg, 0-100 km/h in 6.0 sec (6MT) BMW 135i E82: 1560 kg, 0-100 km/h in 5.3 sec (6MT) BMW 335i E92: 1600 kg, 0-100 km/h in 5.5 sec (6MT) BMW Z4 35is E89: 1600 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.8 sec (7DCT) BMW M3 E92: 1655 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.8 sec (6MT) BMW M3 E92: 1675 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.6 sec (7DCT) BMW M6 E63: 1785 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4.6 sec (7SMG) so: BMW M1 E82: 1480 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4,8 sec (6MT) BMW M1 E82: 1500 kg, 0-100 km/h in 4,6 sec (7DCT) The M1 E82 shall be the same fast as M3 E92, if not faster. M1 F22 and M3 F32 shall be a diferent story because: FI I6 = NA V8 FI I4 < FI I6 Example: Audi S3 FI I4 < Audi S4 FI V6.
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02-15-2010, 04:21 PM	#61
Advevo Banned 581 Rep 1,170 Posts Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Country where the taxes are too high!! iTrader: (0)	i know that engine is cast levi But no way a cast e46 m3 engine is heavier than a 135i engine with all turbo bits on hoses intercooler etc. So the idea of lower weight e46 m3 engine is axed in favor of an turbo d 6 cil engine which would be not as nose heavy. For me that s a big laugh. If the M1 gets a 4cil in favour of the e46 M3 engine than it s thought over. But i find it stupid if ///M have put in a 6 cil turbo if you talk about nose heavy like scott says.
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