[Kugr11]

You should not feel bad for the salesclown at all. His e-mail is proof-positive he's a moron.

When my business partner was buying an Audi, before the deal was even complete he requested a new salesperson because the one he was working with was a total jackass. The dealership had no problem with his request and the new salesperson was wonderful.

Not only did the original salesguy's piss-poor attitude lose him that sale, but my partner has since gotten 2 more Audis from the same (new) salesguy. Sales that would have been the original fellow's had he been worth a damn.

[Petercat]

The salesmans response was totally uncalled for. He had no right to contact you, other than to find out how he can make things right for you. The bonus system is none of your business or concern. I don't think he should lose his job over it, but I would certainly forward it to the GM and BMWNA. I wouldn't allow this sort of experience buying a bicycle let alone a BMW.

It seems like this stems from our culture of entitlement. This salesmen felt entitled to this "bonus" rather than seeing it for what it is supposed to be, a reward for service above and beyond.

Here in the midwest, people are extremely conservative, it must be really tough for those guys. People walk into the situation assuming they will be average (3). If they go above and beyond, they earn that 4 or 5. If they screw something up, they drop to a 1 or 2. It's a rating system for the customer to voice their experience.

I am always ashamed for the dealer when they bring up the survey. If they were confident in the level of service they provide, they would know they are getting 5's.

All that being said, my dealer will be getting all 5's from my purchase. Not because of his great knowledge or salesmanship, but because he sold me the car on my terms. He allowed me and even encouraged me to drive every car on the lot, even cars I wasn't interested in. Thankfully he did, I wanted a 5 and he convinced me to drive a 3 and that's what I purchased. He was very trusting and always asked me questions, you know, rather than telling me what he felt I needed to know. I honestly can not wait to buy another car from him again.

I'm sorry for the experience you had... Hopefully there are not many of these stories to be heard.

Also guys, do the math. 4 out of 5 is 80%.

[agarbati]

After having read everyone's replies, I think you should contact him directly to give him one last chance to apologize and/or explain his actions. If he still comes across roughshod then I think you should elevate the matter to BMWNA and the GM. If he apologizes or shows some humility then tell him that you'll refrain from pursuing this matter with the higherups that will probably save his job. Otherwise tell him you're taking this to the next level.

[ssam]

and what if i want to give a 3 over 5 ?

1-If they don t want to hear what you think they shouldn t make a survey

2- so the poor guy is loosing his bonus? and he doesn t want to see you anymore? he should think that at least you have bought him a bmw , which is an expensive car !!! what if no one go anymore to this dealership....then he would lost not only his bonus but also his job......that he doesn t desserve.....

3- the company who did the survey shouldn`t give a nomminative result but should give only statistics


if I was you not only I would request to speak with the dealership boss but i would send a letter to bmw of NA

[Armen52]

I just want to mention that I will specifically be complaining about how the survey scores are being judged and used by BMWNA if/when they call me for the survey.

I think its ridiculous to have a 1-5 scale that is logarithmic instead of linear in its progression from good to bad. That is just not what people expect and not how things work anywhere else.

[Dani]

Originally Posted by bmw330ipty

I feel that he shouldnt report this to BMWNA or the manager of the dealership because most probably this will get the salesperson fired. No matter how rude the email was, it sucks to have a person get fired especially if they have a family and kids. Put yourselves in the shoes of the children, you would be sad if your dad lost his job and the family was struggling to pay the bills.

If he loses his job over this it would be because BMW feels his behavior was so bad that it is inexcusable or more likely because he has a pattern of this behavior. It is not the fault of the person reporting it. I don't feel sorry for people who bring this on themselves; its not that he tried his best and just made a mistake. Reporting the truth brings people what they deserve - good or bad. I would more likely feel sorry for the next customer that gets a nasty email or worse yet nasty treatment in person from this salesperson if the issue is not addressed.

[Broken1]

I think this is absolutely disgusting. I would send it to the dealer principle, BMW NA and BMW AG!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The BMW service questionaire is a world wide thing, we even get it here in south africa. I ALWAYS fill it out to exactly what I believe. Sales staff only get a 5 if they left a warm fuzzy feeling with me, and if they delivered superb better than the best i've recieved service. Even if he thinks he did everything to accomodate you, you are not obliged to give him any rating. He needs to be made aware that it is awefull to be sending the DEALERS CLIENTS emails telling them not to come back, or make refferals. YOU ARE THE DEALERS CLIENT< and not his.

If this man was working for me, I would have him fired! Being rude to a customer, about oppinion is not acceptable. He might aswell have told you that your colour choice was low class, or that you drive like a 12year old. He deserves to be shot. People like this shouldn't work at BMW. I am so enraged, I am even willing to send it for you.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
PLEASE REPLY and tell us what happens....

A LONG letter of appology should be expected from the dealer and BMW NA

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[itznin]

IMO the dealer was really upset and HAD to get it out and send the e-mail for his own personal well-being.

I don't agree that you should inform BMW NA, or the GM, or anyone for that matter.

If you did in fact agree to give the dealer all 5's and your bottom line price reflected this agreement then he felt you "owed" him all 5's on the survey so he can make up some $ in bonus opposed to profiting on your car.

Why would you want to inform anyone about this e-mail? It was personal, yes it is unprofessional or whatever but the dealer is human and you cost him a good amount of money so he had to get it off his/her chest.

If you want to bash me go ahead, but the only type of people who would respond and call this unprofessional, etc. are stuck up.

Think about the guy and his position, not how "unprofessional" it was. In the end no matter how UNPROFESSIONAL it is/was, it didn't in fact have any DIRECT EFFECT ON YOU, as it did to his paycheck.

[drfluid]

AFter I got the email that I posted here, I replied back to the dealer how sorry I felt for him not to get the bonus that he would've received. I honestly feel sorry and sad not just because he didn't receive his bonus, but because I lost a 'relationship' with a person that I knew. I thought he was good and promised to give a 'good' rate, but was naive enough not to know that 4 out of 5 was that bad.

And after spending a night I wrote him another email based on what I learned from the posts here. Here it goes...
========================
> Well, you don't say anything about my previous email.
> I think it would be better if you emailed me asking why I gave "4"
> instead of being in a belligerent manner.
>
> If all the BMW dealers would act like that, people wouldn't want to
> buy BMW's anymore. I wonder what your GM and BMWNA would say about the
> email that you sent me about the survey.
>
========================
And he replied me back with this email...

The reason I didn't reply to your e-mail was I had nothing to add. As I stated in
it, I don't want to have anything to do with you again. I've sold thousands of
automobiless in my career, and your response to thecustomer satisfaction inquiry
was the most surprising one I've had. It's also interesting to see the difference
in the tone of your two e-mails sent within a few hours of one another. The first
one was your natural apologetic reaction, the second probably the result of
feedback from outside sources. The term "belligerent" doesn't, in any sense of
it's meaning, define my e-mail to you. Angry, frustrated, or disgusted, are more
apt definitions. Belligerent may be much more accurate to define the tone of your
second e-mail.

The reason for my emotions was that you had promised me that you would give all
5's, and didn't. As far as telling my GM or BMW what I wrote to you, please do
so. You're wanting to try to hurt me more just goes to give further evidence of
your nature. BUT I CAUTION YOU, DON'T EVER THREATEN ME LIKE THAT AGAIN. I DON'T
TAKE KINDLY TO THAT. YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH ONE ONE OF YOUR CHAT ROOM ACADEMICS.
===========================
Last sentences were capitalized by him, I guess, to warn me the consequencies if I report to his supervisor or someone high up.

I still have no intention to harm him in any way, but what should I do? I don't even understand why this kinds of shitty things are happening to me...
Damn survey!!!

[drfluid]

Originally Posted by itznin

IMO the dealer was really upset and HAD to get it out and send the e-mail for his own personal well-being.

I don't agree that you should inform BMW NA, or the GM, or anyone for that matter.

If you did in fact agree to give the dealer all 5's and your bottom line price reflected this agreement then he felt you "owed" him all 5's on the survey so he can make up some $ in bonus opposed to profiting on your car.

Why would you want to inform anyone about this e-mail? It was personal, yes it is unprofessional or whatever but the dealer is human and you cost him a good amount of money so he had to get it off his/her chest.

If you want to bash me go ahead, but the only type of people who would respond and call this unprofessional, etc. are stuck up.

Think about the guy and his position, not how "unprofessional" it was. In the end no matter how UNPROFESSIONAL it is/was, it didn't in fact have any DIRECT EFFECT ON YOU, as it did to his paycheck.

Yes, that's a good point. That makes a lot of sense, too.

I'm the one to blame for mis-understanding '4 out of 5' would be pretty good.
All I concern now is how I get all the warranty which has 3 years and 11 months to go.

[itznin]

Just let it go, nothing you can do........

As you said you aren't trying to hurt him so the best you can do is let it go at this point because sending to BMW NA and/or his GM are only going to hurt him.

[bmw330ipty]

Originally Posted by drfluid

AFter I got the email that I posted here, I replied back to the dealer how sorry I felt for him not to get the bonus that he would've received. I honestly feel sorry and sad not just because he didn't receive his bonus, but because I lost a 'relationship' with a person that I knew. I thought he was good and promised to give a 'good' rate, but was naive enough not to know that 4 out of 5 was that bad.

And after spending a night I wrote him another email based on what I learned from the posts here. Here it goes...
========================
> Well, you don't say anything about my previous email.
> I think it would be better if you emailed me asking why I gave "4"
> instead of being in a belligerent manner.
>
> If all the BMW dealers would act like that, people wouldn't want to
> buy BMW's anymore. I wonder what your GM and BMWNA would say about the
> email that you sent me about the survey.
>
========================
And he replied me back with this email...

The reason I didn't reply to your e-mail was I had nothing to add. As I stated in
it, I don't want to have anything to do with you again. I've sold thousands of
automobiless in my career, and your response to thecustomer satisfaction inquiry
was the most surprising one I've had. It's also interesting to see the difference
in the tone of your two e-mails sent within a few hours of one another. The first
one was your natural apologetic reaction, the second probably the result of
feedback from outside sources. The term "belligerent" doesn't, in any sense of
it's meaning, define my e-mail to you. Angry, frustrated, or disgusted, are more
apt definitions. Belligerent may be much more accurate to define the tone of your
second e-mail.

The reason for my emotions was that you had promised me that you would give all
5's, and didn't. As far as telling my GM or BMW what I wrote to you, please do
so. You're wanting to try to hurt me more just goes to give further evidence of
your nature. BUT I CAUTION YOU, DON'T EVER THREATEN ME LIKE THAT AGAIN. I DON'T
TAKE KINDLY TO THAT. YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH ONE ONE OF YOUR CHAT ROOM ACADEMICS.
===========================
Last sentences were capitalized by him, I guess, to warn me the consequencies if I report to his supervisor or someone high up.

I still have no intention to harm him in any way, but what should I do? I don't even understand why this kinds of shitty things are happening to me...
Damn survey!!!

OH MY GOSH!!!

that guys is a real asshole and i feel that NOW the relationship is ruined 100%. I feel that you have no need to apologize anymore or try to fix the situation. After his last email i definately feel you should report this, as he says you should and this will probably get him fired and the dealership will probably apologize extensively and maybe even try to offer some kind of compensation (free accesory, huge discount, etc)....

Just ignore the guy, dont communicate anymore with him and start reporting this to the GM of the dealership and BMWNA.

your attitude to them should be that you are insulted and disgusted with this kind of service and that you are the victim.

good luck,

BD

[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by drfluid

And he replied me back with this email...

The reason I didn't reply to your e-mail was I had nothing to add. As I stated in
it, I don't want to have anything to do with you again. I've sold thousands of
automobiless in my career, and your response to thecustomer satisfaction inquiry
was the most surprising one I've had. It's also interesting to see the difference
in the tone of your two e-mails sent within a few hours of one another. The first
one was your natural apologetic reaction, the second probably the result of
feedback from outside sources. The term "belligerent" doesn't, in any sense of
it's meaning, define my e-mail to you. Angry, frustrated, or disgusted, are more
apt definitions. Belligerent may be much more accurate to define the tone of your
second e-mail.

The reason for my emotions was that you had promised me that you would give all
5's, and didn't. As far as telling my GM or BMW what I wrote to you, please do
so. You're wanting to try to hurt me more just goes to give further evidence of
your nature. BUT I CAUTION YOU, DON'T EVER THREATEN ME LIKE THAT AGAIN. I DON'T
TAKE KINDLY TO THAT. YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH ONE ONE OF YOUR CHAT ROOM ACADEMICS.
===========================
Last sentences were capitalized by him, I guess, to warn me the consequencies if I report to his supervisor or someone high up.

I still have no intention to harm him in any way, but what should I do? I don't even understand why this kinds of shitty things are happening to me...
Damn survey!!!

Hey, I think you have done everything right. You gave him an opportunity to make things right between you, and he passed. I can understand that he would have been disappointed if you previously agreed to give him all 5's, and then didn't. I guess that is a little dishonest on your part, because he was in effect asking you to tell him what he could do to earn all 5's, and you assured him that he had. But under no circumstances should he have sent that original email, or this latest one, in which he basically threatens you with harm. I would like to go and bounce my fists off this guys face about 100 times.

Please let us know who this salesperson is so that we can avoid him at all costs. I would still consider buying from this dealer perhaps, but never from this salesperson. I can barely contain my anger on your behalf. I am so sorry for the way you have been treated by this person. He should not be selling Yugos, much less BMWs.

I just thought of something else... If they place so much importance on this stupid survey, what is to stop someone from waiting until they about to sign the papers and then saying: "I will not give you all "5s" on the BMWNA survey unless you sell me this car at $500 over invoice!" The dealer would then either have to refuse to sell you the car, or risk getting a poor survey from you. According to the original post, the fact that he got "4s" on the survey cost him 4 times what the profit on the car was... Why not ask for the car at no profit then? STUPID!!

[chazmtb]

He's asking for it. It is like he is threatening you. He stated he doesn't want anything to do with you. So why would you care if higher brasses see what kind of sales person they have. If I were a GM, I would want to know how my staff is conducting, especially if it means losing future business.

[drfluid]

Originally Posted by metallic

drfluid, can you tell us which dealership is that? And what's his name?

I wish I could, but it would only make me be the same person as he is, wouldn't it?
However, I'll let you know if it will be necessary.

[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by drfluid

I wish I could, but it would only make me be the same person as he is, wouldn't it?
However, I'll let you know if it will be necessary.

OK, then maybe just tell us his first name and not the dealership, so that if we are buying in the Bay Area, we know to avoid him if we get a salesperson with the same name. If it's a common name, I guess that would potentially hurt other people with the same name, but hey, I would rather be safe than sorry!

[bmw330ipty]

Originally Posted by drfluid

I wish I could, but it would only make me be the same person as he is, wouldn't it?
However, I'll let you know if it will be necessary.

under what circumstances would it be necessary?

[drfluid]

in case a lot of people here wanted?
I'd pm whom wants the name, though.

[ward]

fortunately you're in the bay like me,

we've got san fransisco, san jose, fremont, mountain view, pleasanton, concord, san mateo to choose from

I've thought the guys at pleasanton are the best, but I'd also say mountain view is good. Fremont and Concord are big volume lower class type establishments from what I've seen.

I bet your bad experience was at fremont or concord

[E90Mono]

OK, this is absolutely rediculous...You can not take the blame for not knowing the ratings in their survey. All they tell you when they call is to rate the response from 1-5 with 5 being the very best. It is not your responsibility to know their system. It is their responsibility to explain it to you. If you didn't know 5 was the only acceptable rating, then that is their fault. My dealership never mentioned the survey at all. I gave all 5's because I was blown away by the treatment I received and how easy the entire process was. Another CA even played with my son for an hour while my CA went through the delivery process.

Your sales guy is now bordering on causing his dealer liability. This is not about you, it is about the bad CA and the dealer. What about the next client to get this treatment? You have an opportunity to stop this before it gets worse or something really bad happens. Please don't stand by and let this guy bully others. Report it to the dealer and BMWNA and be done with it.

I am all for being compassionate for my fellow man. We are all just trying to take care of our families and do the best we can, so I understand you don't intend any malice toward this person, but on the otherhand, he has crossed the line. I even think the dealer would
be disappointed he wasn't reported. Based on the CA's response, I would not be surprised if there have been other incidents. Your report may be all the dealer needs to finally resolve an ongoing situation.

In the end you have to do what you can live with. This obviously bothers you a lot. Again, this is a reflection of the CA, not you. IMO the only responses are walk away and forget it, or report to Dealer and/or BMW. Tough position to be in, so good luck.

[drfluid]

Originally Posted by ward

fortunately you're in the bay like me,

we've got san fransisco, san jose, fremont, mountain view, pleasanton, concord, san mateo to choose from

You missed just one place in the Bay Area

[silverado]

Wow... this is getting out of hand. I would say his statement is a threat. The wise thing to do at this point is probably just go away quietly. Even with the slimmest probability that some harm might come to you or your car out of this, it is not worth it for you to pursue it any further. You should KNOW that this is really not your fault. The survey valuation (if it really is as this person describes) is the problem.

But if you love dirty street fights, go for it.