Maxed out Fuel Trim - E72 - N54 RB Turbo

[ABE92]

Hey Guys,

Any of you running on straight E85 with RB Turbo here?

I have just dynoed the RB with E72 and I was initially happy with the result until I saw my log. I realised that I maxed out fuel trim at about 5500 rpm. I thought the inline FFTEC lpfp is sufficient but it appears not to be.

Having said that, the fuel trim was ok when I ran them at low boost (17-18psi) with Procede OFT E40 flash. At road course and racewars, the low boost flash appears to work well without any misfire. I supposed running them at 21.7psi didn't help as well.

Anyway, I will appreciate if you guys could share if you found a way around this. I think I could hit higher number if I can resolve this. Attached dyno logs and results for your review.

Notes:
1. I don't have a baseline but a stock E92 M3 DCT dynoed at 295whp here.
2. E% reading from Zeitronix ECA Gauge

OFT E40 Flash - 398whp
http://www.datazap.me/u/abe92/dyno-ots-e40?log=0&data=1



Procede stacked with OFT E40 as backend flash - 513whp @ E72
http://www.datazap.me/u/abe92/proced...log=0&data=1-5

[flinchy]

got logs?

probably the HPFP struggling at 500whp+ high ethanol.

ED: only option currently is meth, which isn't entirely safe

or hope+wait for the full release of the vargas twin HPFP solution, which isn't exactly cheap lol

[ABE92]

^
logs are on the datazap links.

Hmm... I used meth for the 513whp run - 100% meth with two M1 nozzles. Maybe I need 3 nozzles. Gosh, the dreaded HPFP... I hope the vargas solution is the answer to this maxed out fuel trim.

[flinchy]

oh whoops missed them lol

logs don't show HPFP request/actual and LPFP pressure? (also with JB4 at least, i think you can log meth flow, so i'd assume procede too)

I'm assuming the procede can log that?

E40 log has rail pressure only ED: and some miscellaneous 'LP fuel' value that i have no idea what it means

[froop]

Are you sure that you can use an E40 flash when running a significantly higher E%? Wouldn't an E40 flash be targeting AFRs for an E40 mixture? Is the procede only controlling boost and meth or are you using it to control AFRs and fuel as well?

[ABE92]

Flinchy: I used HFS 4 so Procede couldn't log the meth flow. Meth is definitely flowing as the meth level in the tank is coming down and I was in the car watching the meth gauge during dyno

I think Procede can but I didn't choose that parameter during the dyno run. Should have done it.

Froop: I tried slightly richer AFR target but they didn't work well until I reloaded OFT E40 flash as a backend flash. Not an expert on AFR target but based on one of Vishnu's flexfuel threads, he was running 21psi on stock turbo at 12.4-12.6 AFR.

The OFT E40 flash was targeting similar AFR so I presumed it's ok. It's definitely pretty lean but it seems like the only way I could get smooth power curve all the way to redline. I tried to use richer AFR target and that resulted in a sudden power dip of 50-75whp at 5400rpm. Pretty much, it goes like 510whp at 5300rpm and then, 460whp at 5400rpm.

Procede is only used as a boost controller and I use HFS 4 as the standalone meth kit.

[PeteA]

Your numbers are pretty crazy!

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

Are you sure that you can use an E40 flash when running a significantly higher E%? Wouldn't an E40 flash be targeting AFRs for an E40 mixture? Is the procede only controlling boost and meth or are you using it to control AFRs and fuel as well?

i know on the cobb, you have to change the fuel scalar every 5-10% or so

and doesn't the DME work off lambda, rather than AFR?

that confuses me even more... the AFR's in the E72 run are unleaded AFR's... if it was actually running those AFR's with E72, there'd be big problems lol... my assumption was procede sees lambda and displays AFR's as if it's unleaded or something?

[BOZZA]

I'm interested in the outcome here too. I have the same config

2006 E92 335i

RB Turbos
Procede v5
Meth
Flex Fuel sensors (not installed yet)

I'm waiting to find out a solid configuration before I install it

If its workable by just reducing the boost until I install a HPFP options I'll do that

Regards,
Daniel

[JB4-335]

Your running too much timing and boost (ok for a quick dyno glory run but not daily), your AFR's in bank 1 are leaning out compared to Bank 2 but that's probably due to the meth not equally reaching Bank 1.
I'm sure your HPFP was begging for that run to end.
I don't understand how you can run so much ethanol without logging your high and low fuel pressure.

[ABE92]

PeteA: thanks mate! Can't wait to resolve maxed fuel trim to hit higher number

Flinchy: spot on mate. That's why I tried richer AFR target initially but to no avail after 8-10 attempts on the dyno. I will just get the huge power dip at 5400rpm-5500rpm. I almost gave up on the idea of running high boost until I recalled Shiv running 21psi with stock turbos and I thought, hmm... perhaps, I could use his AFR target instead. And it works!

Reference: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=880319

I made reference to jb4 AFR target too and it appears to me that they are running similar ratio to get the smooth power curve: - http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21245

Bozza: running them at 17-18psi will not be a problem with upgraded LPFP. Check my log for the 398whp run. Bear in mind, the number is low in comparison to American dynojet. A bone stock 2013 m3 e92 dct dynoed at 295whp here and with dynojet, they managed to get 365whp - http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=741924. If not mistaken, dyno dynamics reads ~20% lower than the dynojet.

[ABE92]

jb4-335: yeah, definitely leaning out due to poor meth distribution and either LPFP or HPFP is struggling to keep up. The high boost map will only be used for drag strip event or racewars. This power is definitely not sustainable at the race track.

As for logging lpfp and hpfp, I should have but my assumption of upgraded Vishnu/FFTEC lpfp should work failed miserably. In addition, didn't enjoy being in the dyno room for like straight 7hrs trying to fix the huge power dip.

[questionable]

Whats, noogstar and nuggets solution to the fuel pump ?

[Nugget]

Not much help here as I've never looked at procede logs before, but this car felt very fast at racewars running just the OFT e40 flash. Must be an animal with an extra 114rwhp.
My fuel pump is a Walbro 465 e85 pump in the bucket. Similar to the stage 2 kits here.