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      12-24-2010, 09:23 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Yes, it is a 4 stroke engine, similar to the one in Civic and Corollas as well as 35is. Do not buy!
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      12-24-2010, 09:38 AM   #46
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I expect that the talk about "tighter tolerances" and such are related to ancillary systems such as the computers or cooling; nothing about the crank/rods/pistons/heads/intake/turbos. It's not coincidence that the engine makes the same power as the Z4is.

At best, and exceedingly unlikely, is a modification to the iS motor for all it's uses; if that's the case, it's STILL not an M-specific engine so what's the difference from now? It's not as if N54 or N55 are having internal problems anyway, even chipped.

I was really hoping for the engine to:

1. Have a boost curve that maintained the rumored max HP all the way to redline.
2. Hit 350hp - be at least a SPECK higher than the highest output non-M N54/N55 engines.

I think it's still a great car, but perhaps the folks making the decisions at BMW have forgotten that the ENGINE has made M special just as much as, if not more than handling. They could have taken the 1M from a cool car to a complete butt-kicking game changer with just what I described above, which likely would cost very little in money or time.
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      12-24-2010, 10:26 AM   #47
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IMO, what BMW should have done was:

- no "is" line at all, just a Performance Package as in the e46 for $5000 -320hp/332lbs, body kit, sport seats and suspension and some M-bits (steering wheel, Alcantara cloth, anthracite headliner, door sills, 19" wheels)- and available to all 3-Series regardless of number of doors. What's the problem with a 335i Sedan with the Performance Package for $47,000???

- make the 1M and the Z4M with the 335hp/369lbs N54 version with the overboost, MDM and full M suspension and differential.

I don't see any marketing reason for the "is" line as it is too close in price to the M3 and too close in concept to the Audi S-line, especially when a Performance Package would have been a logical expansion of their own Performance line of accessories.

This way there would be no apparent collusion between the 1M and the "is" line. To me it seems that in this particular case BMW is listening too much to a Wall Street-kind of executives, that just envision a bunch of potential money in the M Division in only the badge itself and nothing else behind it. They will make a lot of money, but the M Division will be a joke of itself.
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      12-24-2010, 12:41 PM   #48
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cannot confirm but the 1m n54 has bigger turbos...if true we in the n54 community are already putting down 385whp no meth with many miles problem free. bigger turbos means easy tuning with low psi less stress to hit these numbers this car is going to be unreal for all
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      12-24-2010, 12:47 PM   #49
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it seems to me that mapazzel is dropping knowledge on top of everyone but no one is reading the signs?


Let's recap....


Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post

- It is an N54 and there have been internal changes made for the M.

- there have been changes made. M has gone over this motor like any other of their offerings and made changes as they saw fit

-I will not go into details here but, just know that there have been internal changes to make the car definitely track worthy.

- note that the 335is and Z4IS were parallel projects with the 1M being developed by M more like the Z4

-All I am able to say is that M made changes as they saw fit. As for the economies part- ever consider the changes could be made to all current N54s to make it viable? You need to understand how BMW looks at these things, there is a reason the 128i ended up with the air curtain system as well. They used other cars development to make the 1M even obtainable.

Let me add to this that which I DO know to be true. As JasonCSU mentioned earlier, we discussed the motor at the pre-drive event. I directly asked one of the engineers what differences there are to the 1M motor versus the 135. His response was that the parts in the motor are the same, but with higher tolerances, there are new piston rings, and that they have spent a significant amount of time on the dyno tweaking the software. I did NOT think to ask about the turbos, as my question was primarily about engine internals and not parts bolted on.

Swamp... sorry to debunk your conspiracy theory. If there was something the engineers could not tell us, they simply said so. They allowed us to ask questions and they answered them, or did not answer them based on what info they could reveal. When we asked about power figures, they were coy, but if we were out of the ballpark (360 hp? - answer - no).... ( 340 hp? - answer... smile) then they let us know.

My expectation is that items in the motor have been beefed up for better reliability by using tighter tolerances, but that much of the power increase is in the tuning. As mapazzel indicated, any of these internal adjustments would indeed carry over to other cars using the same powerplant... so for example if the

As far as the complaints about " this should have been an 'is' package" it seems those are easily answered.

To my knowledge the Z4 35is and the 335 is cars do not have an updated suspension package, nor do they have the M differential. So... the is packages involve different wheels, different bumpers and some other exterior trim parts, the motor, but not wholesale changes to the suspension and of course the differential. To me that is why the Z435 was close to being an M but eventually deemed not worthy. In addition, we now also know that the 1M was developed separately, which means it's NOT the same as the 335.

As far as engines.... everyone seems to be trying to place the old paradigm on this model and it simply does not work. Heck.. it may nor work on ANY new M motor. We know that BMW will be using turbo motors more in the future for all M cars. It's entirely possible that a turbo motor will also be used in the top (non-M) models of these vehicles as well. We see this already with the 135, and the 335. Sure.. IN THE PAST, all the motors were unique and had the cool-man S code... but that simply MAY NOT BE THE CASE GOING FORWARD on turbo motors! So all the carping about " true M motor" is only coming from people that refuse to accept changes. I am sure there are some people that still call the US E36 M3 a 332is... but really.. isn't that just trite? Sure.. the motor didn't have individual throttle bodies like the European version, but did that keep the E36 M3 from being one of the most popular M cars for BMW in the US?

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-24-2010 at 01:12 PM..
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      12-24-2010, 01:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
My expectation is that items in the motor have been beefed up for better reliability by using tighter tolerances, but that much of the power increase is in the tuning.
It sounds like the motor has been "blueprinted" from the factory. It's common for most components to come from the factory in a range of tolerance "bins"- pistons might come in 4 bore sizes and different weights, etc. By putting the best parts together (choosing the largest piston diameters, lightest weight rods, etc) you can build "stronger" motors from the factory. Porsche used to do this sometimes for "special wishes" cars, where a good customer or Porsche exec would get a factory special that would dyno 10-20 hp stronger than an average car without any on-paper changes.

It makes some sense that they would upgrade the critical components such as rings and choose the best parts for the M cars; it's virtually free as they have the whole range of parts to choose from. It might buy you a little power and it probably gets you more reliability, but nothing dramatic. Not exactly make or break either way- as long as the price is right I'm fine with this motor being "the same". This car is about the package, not the motor...
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      12-24-2010, 01:15 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
It sounds like the motor has been "blueprinted" from the factory. It's common for most components to come from the factory in a range of tolerance "bins"- pistons might come in 4 bore sizes and different weights, etc. By putting the best parts together (choosing the largest piston diameters, lightest weight rods, etc) you can build "stronger" motors from the factory. Porsche used to do this sometimes for "special wishes" cars, where a good customer or Porsche exec would get a factory special that would dyno 10-20 hp stronger than an average car without any on-paper changes.

It makes some sense that they would upgrade the critical components such as rings and choose the best parts for the M cars; it's virtually free as they have the whole range of parts to choose from. It might buy you a little power and it probably gets you more reliability, but nothing dramatic. Not exactly make or break either way- as long as the price is right I'm fine with this motor being "the same". This car is about the package, not the motor...

Exactly!!! i also particularly agree with your last line...

"This car is about the package, not the motor.."
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      12-24-2010, 02:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Exactly!!! i also particularly agree with your last line...

"This car is about the package, not the motor.."
I totally agree. Plus I still remember Scott26 mentioning a while back about this being a "hybrid" motor....The best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned.
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      12-24-2010, 03:24 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
This car is about the package, not the motor...
There is a reason why M engines are designated with the "S": The (M) package includes the motor.

For me the issue is not that they used a turbo engine in an M, the issue is that they used a regular production engine in its standard tune in an M. We can split hairs all we want -higher tolerances, different piston rings, a new glossy M sticker in the engine cover- and still this is an engine shared with a non-M car in exactly the same tune.

This needed not to happen at all, period. At $62,000 the Z4 sDrive35is is ridiculously overpriced as a non-M. I mean, over $9000 from the Z4 sDrive35i MSRP and BMW cannot make it an M car?? But then drop the same exact engine in a 135i, with completely different fenders, skirts and bumpers (additional tooling costs), M3 suspension, brakes and differential and for just $10000 extra it can be a M car?

Give me a freaking break...
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      12-24-2010, 03:35 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
IMO, what BMW should have done was:

- no "is" line at all, just a Performance Package as in the e46 for $5000 -320hp/332lbs, body kit, sport seats and suspension and some M-bits (steering wheel, Alcantara cloth, anthracite headliner, door sills, 19" wheels)- and available to all 3-Series regardless of number of doors. What's the problem with a 335i Sedan with the Performance Package for $47,000???

- make the 1M and the Z4M with the 335hp/369lbs N54 version with the overboost, MDM and full M suspension and differential.

I don't see any marketing reason for the "is" line as it is too close in price to the M3 and too close in concept to the Audi S-line, especially when a Performance Package would have been a logical expansion of their own Performance line of accessories.

This way there would be no apparent collusion between the 1M and the "is" line. To me it seems that in this particular case BMW is listening too much to a Wall Street-kind of executives, that just envision a bunch of potential money in the M Division in only the badge itself and nothing else behind it. They will make a lot of money, but the M Division will be a joke of itself.

Hmm... maybe a good point about the package... but do keep in mind that in the past, particularly on 3 series models, an " IS" package has been available... and ususally it was a a sport package only on the two door cars.
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      12-24-2010, 03:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Hmm... maybe a good point about the package... but do keep in mind that in the past, particularly on 3 series models, an " IS" package has been available... and ususally it was a a sport package only on the two door cars.
The last time an "is" was used as a different trim/package was in the E30 3-Series. By the E36 the "is" was used to distinguish between the Coupe and the Sedan, i.e., Coupe was named 325is while the Sedan was just 325i.
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      12-24-2010, 05:10 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
There is a reason why M engines are designated with the "S": The (M) package includes the motor.

For me the issue is not that they used a turbo engine in an M, the issue is that they used a regular production engine in its standard tune in an M. We can split hairs all we want -higher tolerances, different piston rings, a new glossy M sticker in the engine cover- and still this is an engine shared with a non-M car in exactly the same tune.

This needed not to happen at all, period. At $62,000 the Z4 sDrive35is is ridiculously overpriced as a non-M. I mean, over $9000 from the Z4 sDrive35i MSRP and BMW cannot make it an M car?? But then drop the same exact engine in a 135i, with completely different fenders, skirts and bumpers (additional tooling costs), M3 suspension, brakes and differential and for just $10000 extra it can be a M car?

Give me a freaking break...
What is the engine designation of the X5M and the X6M ?

I agree with you about the Z435 is by the way... I don't understand why BMW keeps actiing like they don't want to make M versions of the Z cars. The Z3... then the Z4... they kept saying no... and then they did make M versions.. each successful as far as I know.. .. and the same has happened thus far with the second generation Z4. Sheesh... throw some more M diffs there, maybe redesign the suspension and make it an M car as well. And I agree.. at 62K.. (ouch!). that makes it more expensive than THREE M cars ... M3 coupe and sedan, and now the 1M.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-24-2010 at 07:42 PM..
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      12-24-2010, 05:23 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The last time an "is" was used as a different trim/package was in the E30 3-Series. By the E36 the "is" was used to distinguish between the Coupe and the Sedan, i.e., Coupe was named 325is while the Sedan was just 325i.

Perfect... simply another example of where BMW has a naming convention that they don't adhere to over time ...
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      12-24-2010, 05:49 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
What is the engine designation of the X5M and the X6M ?
It's called S63.


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      12-24-2010, 06:18 PM   #59
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I am a bit confused over all of this. I thought the 35is stated output is 320 hp and the 1M is just a bit higher at 335. Considering the pricing and the one year duration of the project, I suspect the 1M is geting a factory tune and not much more. Anyway, I bet the 1M will be a great car when all is said and done.
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      12-24-2010, 06:32 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
What is the engine designation of the X5M and the X6M ?
It's called S63.


Best regards,
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Thank you!

Boy just wait and see if this motor gets an S designation. Heads will explode I imagine.
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      12-24-2010, 06:57 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
What is the engine designation of the X5M and the X6M ?
Those never should have been M cars. Even if they have the S designated engine.
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      12-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Those never should have been M cars. Even if they have the S designated engine.

LOL.
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      12-24-2010, 09:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Those never should have been M cars. Even if they have the S designated engine.
Have you driven one? It is not a M3, but it is more than amazing, thoroughly deserved its M badge. It out handles the 135i.
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      12-24-2010, 10:16 PM   #64
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bigger turbos=s engine code

then54 is a great engine. if it got bigger turbos would u guys be happy to give it the s designation to the m series engines.
I think this would appease most, 335hp is like a giac flash stage one..I can see the oscillation on the engine though it is still as others have said great package, but as an m we would like more distinction.
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      12-25-2010, 05:04 AM   #65
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Der untergang youtube M movie is the best example what happens right now at M.

The investment in new highrev engine is a costly thing. And with all the co2 debating going on they can get away with a cheaper turbo AG engine to push to all the costumers. The customers believe this nonsonse and buy it anyway and M is laughing when they see the sales.

Then can you ask youreself. What is M these days.

M is not the manufacturer what we think they used to be. M is now just a Tuning department of BMW.

If you have an turbo M car these days. You buy an bmw AG car with lots tuning parts and M badges. The special feeling owning an M car is flowing away more and more.

When M brings own engines like the M3 CSL engine i am willing to pay more for it. But pay premium voor putting an AG engine in M car no way. I rather buy a real sportscar then.

Turbo is cheaper and give more easy lots of power in compare to a base race engine like the S54. The japs knew this years ago. So if bmw M goes Jap style fine by me but don t ask M money anymore.

The X5M is just an insane price tag for a turbo there is not one hair on my complete body that would pay that amount of money for an M car with a jap style turbo engine.

The M of Motorsport is gone all the nice old movies you see of M these days of the E30 M3 DTM is a nice marketing. M for street cars is no more then a tuning department for BMW AG.

When they building own engines again M gets a new status from me. As long as turbo AG engines are used the letter M for me is for Marketing.

All this doesn t mean i can t enjoy a 1M. Al this means it s different then M used to be and i accept it but only if the car doesn t cost like a car with a base race engine it s fine by me.

Last edited by Advevo; 12-25-2010 at 08:32 AM..
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      12-25-2010, 07:56 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
Der untergang youtube M movie is the best example what happens right now at M.

The investment in new highrev engine is a costly thing. And with all the co2 debating going on they can get away with a cheaper turbo AG engine to push to all the costumers. The customers believe this nonsonse and buy it anyway and M is laughing when they see the sales.

Then can you ask youreself. What is M these days.

M is not the manufacturer what we think they used to be. M is now just a Tuning department of BMW.

If you have an turbo M car these days. You buy an bmw AG car with lots tuning parts and M badges. The special feeling owning an M car is flowing away more and more.

When M brings own engines like the M3 CSL engine i am willing to more for it. But pay premium voor putting an AG engine in M car no way. I rather buy a real sportscar then.

Turbo is cheaper and give more easy lots of power in compare to a base race engine like the S54. The japs knew this years ago. So if bmw M goes Jap style fine by me but don t ask M money anymore.

The X5M is just an insane price tag for a turbo there is not one hair on my complete body that would pay that amount of money for an M car with a jap style turbo engine.

The M of Motorsport is gone all the nice old movies you see of M these days of the E30 M3 DTM is a nice marketing. M for street cars is no more then a tuning department for BMW AG.

When they building own engines again M gets a new status from me. As long as turbo AG engines are used the letter M for me is for Marketing.

All this doesn t mean i can t enjoy a 1M. Al this means it s different then M used to be and i accept it but only if the car doesn t cost like a car with a base race engine it s fine by me.
Umm, you might want to do some research on what was created and engineered for the first time to build the S63 engine. The variable pulse form intake and reversed heads for packaging are remarkable. Another 1st, and it came from ///M, not BMW GmBh.

T
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