How long until engine is at proper operating temperature?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by marvinp

So on the 135i, is there any official information on how exactly should you drive before the engine is warm? An amount of RPM you should stay under?

I haven't looked at the 135i manual for it, but my M Coupe manual states that until oil temp reaches 200 degrees, to keep it below 4k rpm. I'd guess that this holds roughly true for any motor. And yes, oil temp is much, much more critical than coolant temp. Coolant temp is only the ability to provide additional cooling capacity, while oil temp provides the lubrication system a chance to get to operating specs.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I haven't looked at the 135i manual for it, but my M Coupe manual states that until oil temp reaches 200 degrees, to keep it below 4k rpm. I'd guess that this holds roughly true for any motor.

Thanks, I should've just RTFM.

"When the engine is at normal operating temperature, the engine oil temperature is between approx. 210*F/100*C and approx. 300*F/150*C." (Owner's manual, page 57.)

And yes, oil temp is much, much more critical than coolant temp. Coolant temp is only the ability to provide additional cooling capacity, while oil temp provides the lubrication system a chance to get to operating specs.

And that's a point that can't be stressed enough. I have a ScanGauge and know that my coolant temp reaches 200*F relatively soon after startup. But that isn't what matters....

[m7ammed]

well in normal driving conditions my car is anywhere in between 100 and 110 when pushed it will start creeping up to 120, today was one of the hottest days this summer here it was 10:30 pm and it was 42C outside( sunset is at 6:20). Also went for lunch and temps were above 50C and the engine was settled at 110C. So its taking the weather pretty well very glad

[Tom K.]

[quote=jkp1187;5670444]Thanks, I should've just RTFM.

"When the engine is at normal operating temperature, the engine oil temperature is between approx. 210*F/100*C and approx. 300*F/150*C." (Owner's manual, page 57.) [quote]

But unlike the M Coupe, there is no mention whatsoever of what warm-up means in terms of rev, throttle or speed limitations - and no way for 128i drivers to have any clue as to when our motors are "at normal operating temperature". I would guess most 1er owners are using a prudent "cold" (whatever that is) rev limit of 3~4,000, but not because BMW recommends it.

Somehow, I think back to my first car - a well used '52 Dodge with a top speed of 85 and a 0~60 time seemingly measured in days, not seconds. But the dash would immediately yield useful info on water temp, battery charge rate and oil pressure at a glance. Of course, it never reminded me that the washer fluid was low, so I guess we've made significant progress...

Tom

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Somehow, I think back to my first car - a well used '52 Dodge with a top speed of 85 and a 0~60 time seemingly measured in days, not seconds. But the dash would immediately yield useful info on water temp, battery charge rate and oil pressure at a glance. Of course, it never reminded me that the washer fluid was low, so I guess we've made significant progress...

Tom

And that's one reason why I keep a ScanGauge on my dashboard.

[sparoz]

I guess in this case - we should treat it still in the break-in period until temps up?

[imported_mega]

oil takes quite a while to warm up, 2-3 minutes is NOT ENOUGH TIME, water warms up very fast, with the thermostat and closed loop, and bmw water temp guages are buffered to hell, basically an idiot light

the oil temp guage does not seem to be buffered at all, warm up is predictable, and spirited driving makes the gauge respond like you think it should

[Alow]

I have a 128i and a performance steering wheel with the handy temperature gauge.

When I start it up in the morning, both temps are at around 30 C.

Within 5 minutes of driving, the coolant temperature stabilizes at 100ish C, but it takes the oil about 10-12 minutes to reach 100ish C. I go easy on it (not more than 3k rpms) during this time.

Once it does, I switch to g-forces display and let the fun begin

[imported_mega]

that sounds more like it, mine takes a good 10 minutes to warm up too, I wont beat on the car at all until it's warmed up

water = almost instant
oil = 10 minutes

[jdbewl01]

Mine takes just about the exact distance from home to work to fully warm up, meaning boring drives in, and taking the long way home!

[afuiw]

On the 128i, you can use the service menu on the OBC/BC to access the coolant temperature among other things. Follow the instructions below to get to menu 07:00 which will show the coolant temperature (a.k.a. KTMP-MON).

http://e90.wetpaint.com/page/BC+hidden+menus

No idea how accurate or buffered the values are. Would be great if someone with an OBDII scanner can confirm the values are actually real time and match the OBDII values.

Takes me about 10 minutes driving under 3k RPM to get to a stable temperature of 100C.

[Ajumepke]

Originally Posted by jdbewl01

Mine takes just about the exact distance from home to work to fully warm up, meaning boring drives in, and taking the long way home!

count your blessing for a short commute? That's a luxury many of us don't have.

[Mad Dragon]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Keep in mind that the temperature reading on the 135i is taken from the oil level sensor in the bottom of the oil sump, which slows it down some, and I'm of the opinion that it's dumbed down electronically.

The water is up to temp after a few minutes in the summer time.

I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.

[cagekicker]

in miami's summer mine takes approx. 5 minutes.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.

It's not, it's in the sump

and that's exactly where you want to take the oil temp to know if it's warm

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.

According to what I've read, it's integrated into the oil level sensor in the bottom of the sump. It seems the sensor reads the oil level based on temperature changes, so it's possibly redundant to have another one. There's also been a member here who had the sensor fail, and the oil temp reading stopped working, which would seem to back that up.

[RPM90]

Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.

no, it does not work that way, have you seen how the m3 tach works? The redlline changes based on oil temp. Also your oil change interval takes rpm & oil temp into consideration when it computes when to get your oil changed. Higher rpm and colder oil temp will count down miles faster than normal temp does.

it's not just the oil that has to be up to operating temp, it's also all the parts, having your coolent up to temp does NOT mean all the parts are warmed up. Anyone that's lived in a cold climate knows this first hand

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.

The temperature that the oil is at is not directly related to how it is protecting the engine. What is important is that all the engine components are heated up to the point that they are at their optimum design clearances and the oil is at the optimum viscosity between the moving parts. The oil temperature is a much better reflection of this stable state being reached than any other easily measurable parameter.

[Vaaaan]

Also from the manual, page 48:
"Do not wait for the engine to warm up while the vehicle remains stationary. Start driving right away, but at moderate engine speeds."

I wait for the idle to drop to normal level before driving, 5-10 minutes before any WOT, and 10-15 minutes or more before any 'racing'. No harm waiting longer, just use common sense.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The temperature that the oil is at is not directly related to how it is protecting the engine. What is important is that all the engine components are heated up to the point that they are at their optimum design clearances and the oil is at the optimum viscosity between the moving parts. The oil temperature is a much better reflection of this stable state being reached than any other easily measurable parameter.

That's what I've been saying, except, I disagree that the oil temp is the better indicator of that. The parts have reached the engine operating temp by the time the thermostat opens, that's the reason why it stays closed until that time, so that engine temp can be reached faster.
By the time the oil absorbs enough heat to get it to this magical 240F, the engine is well into being warmed.
The engine/coolant temp is the better indicator, but we don't have one, and that sucks.

You seem to understand, better, the issue of warmed up engine components better than some of the posters who think that they are hurting their engine if they drive it before their oil gauge reaches that certain temp.
There is NO indication on the oil temp gauge that says, "ok, now you can open it up." Nor is there any indication that you shouldn't open it up before it reaches a certain temp. In fact, there is NOTHING on that oil temp gauge except some numbers. If the oil temp gauge were showing a certain driving condition, then there should be a red, yellow, green, yellow, then red indication, showing where this optimal temp level is, but there isn't. The question is why? It's because the oil takes a good deal longer to heat up than the surrounding parts. Part of the oils job is cooling, most of it's job is lubricating.

I agree it's important for the engine bits to warm. However, it seems we disagree when that is. I've always used the engine/coolant temp as the indicator, and it's a shame BMW didn't leave one on. I've used the engine/coolant temp gauge as the indicator since I began driving in 1981, and it's never failed me or my engines.

The oil temp gauge is an ancillary gauge especially important when running hard mainly on the track. I don't know why BMW thought this was THE guage to have, because frankly I would have rather had an oil pressure gauge along with a coolant/engine temp gauge

I keep reading these oil temp gauge threads and a lot of people are stuck on using it as an indication of when to open it up. It's not the gauge of when the engine is warm. If anything, it's a gauge of when the engine temp has gotten so high that it now needs to open it's thermostat to try and REMOVE the heat. The coolant thermostat opens probably at around 170F, or when there is sufficient heat build up for proper engine operation, and now it's time to start proving cooling. The thermostat opens to circulate the coolant into the radiator to COOL it down to help maintain the best engine temp operating temp.

There are people on here who think their oil is somehow not protecting their engine whirly bits until it gets to around 240F. That's not ture.
Hotter oil is not better are lubricating than warm oil. In fact, if the oil gets too hot it starts losing it's lubricating properties.
The logic of it is getting lost with this oil temp gauge discussion.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Vaaaan

Also from the manual, page 48:
"Do not wait for the engine to warm up while the vehicle remains stationary. Start driving right away, but at moderate engine speeds."

I wait for the idle to drop to normal level before driving, 5-10 minutes before any WOT, and 10-15 minutes or more before any 'racing'. No harm waiting longer, just use common sense.

The reason behind why not to wait, is because the engine warms FASTER if it's driven moderately, and not just the engine but the trans, tires, brakes, etc...

Yes, no one should hammer the throttle on a just started engine, and people need to take into consideration the ambient temps they are driving in as well.

I haven't used my heater except once one morning.
Those of you that have your 1's for a while in cold weather, how long does it take for you to get warm then hot air from the HVAC in winter temps?
By winter, I mean at least 32F and below.