1M Coupe Runs Nurburgring in 8:12

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by techthentic

I didn't think it even needed to be posted. But since SO many people here think that their 135i is the shit and the 1M is only marginally better. Here are more lap times from the top 255 list

Nordschleife
7:48.00 e92 M3 GTS ('10)
7:50.00 e46 M3 CSL ('03)
8:05.00 e92 M3 ('07)
8:07.76 M6 ('05)
8:12.00 Z4 M Coupe ('06)
8:13.00 e60 M5 ('05)
8:16.52 M6 Cabrio ('07)
8:18.00 Z8 ('00)
8:22.00 e46 M3 ('00)
8:22.00 Z3 M Coupe ('99)
8:24.00 X6 M ('09)
8:26.00 335i Coupe ('07)
8:28.00 E39 M5 ('98)
8:39.20 135i ('07)

*note* the lap time for Z8 I included above was driven by sport auto, who drove majority of the other lap times I included, but there was another
Z8 ('00) that did 8:07:00

I am saying that is the ONLY time I have seen posted anywhere in any semi-official capacity of the 135i...I would like to see more to make a real comparison is all...never said the 135i was the "shit" as compared to other vehicles...jeez

[thez99]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

V10

Haha..this is exactly what I was thinkin in regards to that dudes question bout the 6

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by techthentic

I didn't think it even needed to be posted. But since SO many people here think that their 135i is the shit and the 1M is only marginally better. Here are more lap times from the top 255 list

Nordschleife
7:48.00 e92 M3 GTS ('10)
7:50.00 e46 M3 CSL ('03)
8:05.00 e92 M3 ('07)
8:07.76 M6 ('05)
8:12.00 Z4 M Coupe ('06)
8:13.00 e60 M5 ('05)
8:16.52 M6 Cabrio ('07)
8:18.00 Z8 ('00)
8:22.00 e46 M3 ('00)
8:22.00 Z3 M Coupe ('99)
8:24.00 X6 M ('09)
8:26.00 335i Coupe ('07)
8:28.00 E39 M5 ('98)
8:39.20 135i ('07)

*note* the lap time for Z8 I included above was driven by sport auto, who drove majority of the other lap times I included, but there was another
Z8 ('00) that did 8:07:00

That lap time of 135i is a suspect. There is no way this car is 17 sec. slower than e46m3.

[PC Valkyrie]

Sigh.....you guys need to realize that the only Ring laptimes worth even trying compare between diffferent cars are the ones obtained by Sport Auto magazine (a German publication).

This is the only publication where they have the SAME driver conduct their "Supertest" of cars which includes hot laps at the Nurburgring and Hockenheim. It's still not perfect, because they conduct tests of different cars on different days (obviously), which means different cars may be tested under different track conditions (temperature, etc). But at least it's the SAME DRIVER each time. Also, Sport Auto will test the cars in specifications that are available to the general public. Still, not every comparison is fair, because some cars are provided to the magazine with R-compound tires, which is a factory option for some cars, while some are tested with street tires. As you all know, R-compound tires can make a big difference when it comes to laptimes around a track.

I never take times claimed by the factory as a comparison point between different cars. The times posted by the "Fastestlaps" website can be posted anybody, and is a big mix of laptimes produced by the factory, different magazines (and hence different drivers), and individual one-off's. Therefore, blindly comparing laptimes between cars from that website is WORTHLESS.

Here are some cars tested by Sport Auto on the Nurburgring that may be of interest to members here:

BMW E36 M3: 8:35
BMW E39 M5: 8:28
BMW E92 335i: 8:26
BMW E46 M3: 8:22
BMW E60 M5: 8:13
BMW E92 M3: 8:05 (on R-compound tires)
BMW E46 M3 CSL: 7:50 (on R-compound tires)
BMW E92 M3 GTS: 7:48 (on R-compound tires)

Mercedes Benz C43 AMG: 8:51
Mercedes Benz C32 AMG: 8:37
Mercedes Benz C55 AMG: 8:22
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG: 8:13
Mercedes Benz W212 E63 AMG: 8:10

Lexus IS-F: 8:18

Porsche Boxter S (latest version): 8:18
Porsche Cayman S (latest version): 8:17
Porsche 997 911 Carrerra S: 8:05
Porsche 997.2 911 Carrerra S with PDK: 7:50 (with R-compound tires)
Porsche 997.2 911 GT3: 7:40 (with R-compound tires)
Porsche 997.2 911 GT3 RS: 7:33 (with R-compound tires)

Audi TT-S: 8:29
Audi S5: 8:26
Audi B7 RS4: 8:09 (with R-compound tires)
Audi TT-RS: 8:09


This illustrates one thing for me.....the Porsche 911 is really one hell of a sports car....even on street tires, it blows most of its competition away. And the TT-RS is really smoking too.

And one final thing: the 8:39 laptime of the 135i posted in the "Fastestlaps" website is taken from an Autobild head to head test of the 135i vs Cayman S. The Nurburgring laptime from this test is not comparable to the ones posted by Sport Auto because they included a certain part of the track not usually included in most Ring laptimes. As a reference, the Cayman S' laptime from that test was 8:31. This further illustrates the dangers of comparing laptimes from different magazines, as even the distance of the timed lap itself can vary from different magazines.

Bottom line, if you want to compare Ring laptimes between different cars, use only the Sport Auto times. At least you have the same driver and also the same lap configuration/test strategy for every one of their tests.

[ad78]

got owned by a 5cylinder 340HP TT-RS...

im wondering how much they will priced the TT-RS

not good...

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

Sigh.....you guys need to realize that the only Ring laptimes worth even trying compare between diffferent cars are the ones obtained by Sport Auto magazine (a German publication).

This is the only publication where they have the SAME driver conduct their "Supertest" of cars which includes hot laps at the Nurburgring and Hockenheim. It's still not perfect, because they conduct tests of different cars on different days (obviously), which means different cars may be tested under different track conditions (temperature, etc). But at least it's the SAME DRIVER each time. Also, Sport Auto will test the cars in specifications that are available to the general public. Still, not every comparison is fair, because some cars are provided to the magazine with R-compound tires, which is a factory option for some cars, while some are tested with street tires. As you all know, R-compound tires can make a big difference when it comes to laptimes around a track.

I never take times claimed by the factory as a comparison point between different cars. The times posted by the "Fastestlaps" website can be posted anybody, and is a big mix of laptimes produced by the factory, different magazines (and hence different drivers), and individual one-off's. Therefore, blindly comparing laptimes between cars from that website is WORTHLESS.

Here are some cars tested by Sport Auto on the Nurburgring that may be of interest to members here:

BMW E36 M3: 8:35
BMW E39 M5: 8:28
BMW E92 335i: 8:26
BMW E46 M3: 8:22
BMW E60 M5: 8:13
BMW E92 M3: 8:05 (on R-compound tires)
BMW E46 M3 CSL: 7:50 (on R-compound tires)
BMW E92 M3 GTS: 7:48 (on R-compound tires)

Mercedes Benz C43 AMG: 8:51
Mercedes Benz C32 AMG: 8:37
Mercedes Benz C55 AMG: 8:22
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG: 8:13
Mercedes Benz W212 E63 AMG: 8:10

Lexus IS-F: 8:18

Porsche Boxter S (latest version): 8:18
Porsche Cayman S (latest version): 8:17
Porsche 997 911 Carrerra S: 8:05
Porsche 997.2 911 Carrerra S with PDK: 7:50 (with R-compound tires)
Porsche 997.2 911 GT3: 7:40 (with R-compound tires)
Porsche 997.2 911 GT3 RS: 7:33 (with R-compound tires)

Audi TT-S: 8:29
Audi S5: 8:26
Audi B7 RS4: 8:09 (with R-compound tires)
Audi TT-RS: 8:09


This illustrates one thing for me.....the Porsche 911 is really one hell of a sports car....even on street tires, it blows most of its competition away. And the TT-RS is really smoking too.

And one final thing: the 8:39 laptime of the 135i posted in the "Fastestlaps" website is taken from an Autobild head to head test of the 135i vs Cayman S. The Nurburgring laptime from this test is not comparable to the ones posted by Sport Auto because they included a certain part of the track not usually included in most Ring laptimes. As a reference, the Cayman S' laptime from that test was 8:31. This further illustrates the dangers of comparing laptimes from different magazines, as even the distance of the timed lap itself can vary from different magazines.

Bottom line, if you want to compare Ring laptimes between different cars, use only the Sport Auto times. At least you have the same driver and also the same lap configuration/test strategy for every one of their tests.

This is usually where I get my times from (been reading it since I lived in Germany). Interesting that they do not have a time for the 135i in Sport Auto though....

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

This is usually where I get my times from (been reading it since I lived in Germany). Interesting that they do not have a time for the 135i in Sport Auto though....

They simply have not done a Supertest on the 135i. If they did, my guess is that the 135i would do the Ring in a time somewhere between the 335i and E46 M3 (between 8:22-8:26).

Originally Posted by ad78

got owned by a 5cylinder 340HP TT-RS...

im wondering how much they will priced the TT-RS

not good...

And I would wait until Sport Auto does a Supertest on the 1M before making any conclusions and comparing to other cars. Like I said before, I never use the Ring times claimed by the factory to compare to other cars.

[pride355]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Yes - this was one of the early E92 M3s that Sport Auto tested in their famous Supertest.

But ChrisKs comment was very important!

With the arrival of the competition package and the DCT completely new dimensions in terms of dynamics/speed for the E92 M3 came up.

In the latest comparison with the Audi RS5 the M3 with DCT competition package did the same laptime with normal tyres on the Hockenheimring as the 2007 M3 in the Supertest with semi slick tyres. Insiders know what this means -> that would translate to a speedgain of more than one second at Hockenheimring if the 2010 M3 DCT/Competition had been also equippped with semislicks.

Actually M3, equipped with comp. Pack and M-DKG, was faster than previously tested M3 at Hockemhein by 0,1 sec

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

VERY? What were you expecting? Mid 7 minutes? It is substantially faster than the 135i around the track. I guess people want everything out of a car.

Well in this time range, every second means a lot. I guess I was expecting it to be right around the 8 minute range (8:05 maybe?).

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

thats a very respectable time. and no limp modes while testing! thats always helpful.

for 45k though, there are cars with more potential.

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

What premium brands at this price range have more potential?

Originally Posted by Evolution_GT

None. I'm sure he was referring to a GT500/used M5/really high mileage 911 etc etc

when stating that 45k can give you similar if not more potential, i throw the whole "premium" brand out the door. at the end of the day, if you want performance, you go for a performance / sports car. if you want a GT car, you go for a GT car. There are compromises when one tries to be another. People use the M3 as the perfect example - perfect for track days and you can pick up groceries on the way home.

Well depends on what you believe perfection for the track is. The brakes are weak, the lines are rubber, the pads are for the street so noise and dust are taken into account, the cars are heavy, the seats are not fixed back or even recaros that hug you, the suspension builds in understeer to avoid you from spinning, the list goes on and on. I don't find that perfection. Modifications are necessary. And even if you go so far, there will always be something that you have that is limiting you from getting close to 10/10ths. Thats how i see it.

for $45k you are going to have a hard time finding a NEW car that offers stellar performance numbers, but if you move to the used market you can find a few steals.

1. STi/Evo
2. 996 GT3 (sub 40k miles are in the 50k range, you go a bit higher, u have a monster)
3. 997 C2S (2005-2007 models) w/an Aero Kit that thing is a GT3 look alike w/a LSD that will dominate a 1m
4. Corvette Z06 C6
5. Cayman S (used)
6. if you want to get nuts, you can get SRT10 Vipers in the low 50s high 40k's


there are other options. The cars that I listed have way more potential than the bmw and are a bit more proven on the race track. THey may lack the creature comforts that BMW cars afford - heck thats the reason i did not trade my 335ix in for an EVO, but if this is going to be a toy - i dont see the need for creature comforts. Get the least amount of options and get as close to the visceral driving experience these fantastic machines can offer.

[oztiks]

Umm. ..Nissan GT-R 7.24 seconds in (WET CONDITIONS).


http://hubpages.com/hub/Top-10-Faste...roduction-Cars

[Evolution_GT]

Originally Posted by techthentic

I didn't think it even needed to be posted. But since SO many people here think that their 135i is the shit and the 1M is only marginally better. Here are more lap times from the top 255 list

Nordschleife
7:48.00 e92 M3 GTS ('10)
7:50.00 e46 M3 CSL ('03)
8:05.00 e92 M3 ('07)
8:07.76 M6 ('05)
8:12.00 Z4 M Coupe ('06)
8:13.00 e60 M5 ('05)
8:16.52 M6 Cabrio ('07)
8:18.00 Z8 ('00)
8:22.00 e46 M3 ('00)
8:22.00 Z3 M Coupe ('99)
8:24.00 X6 M ('09)
8:26.00 335i Coupe ('07)
8:28.00 E39 M5 ('98)
8:39.20 135i ('07)

*note* the lap time for Z8 I included above was driven by sport auto, who drove majority of the other lap times I included, but there was another
Z8 ('00) that did 8:07:00

How the heck is the 335i faster than the 135i!? Makes no sense...

[Robert]

Originally Posted by oztiks

Umm. ..Nissan GT-R 7.24 seconds in (WET CONDITIONS).


http://hubpages.com/hub/Top-10-Faste...roduction-Cars

GT-R is also nearly 2x price of 135i or 1M.

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by Evolution_GT

How the heck is the 335i faster than the 135i!? Makes no sense...

e92 has a better more neutral chassis then the 1 series, less understeer

What not should be forgotten is that the times driven by Sport Auto are the best possible times. The driver only drives 3 laps I think so it is very important a car gives a lot of confidence to the driver. This is the reason that the Sport Auto times can be slower then the times published by the carmakers. See the Nissan GTR for example.

A difference of 5 or 10 seconds on the Ring is really nothing. A normal driver would not even notice this. Taking out the high speed parts (Bergwerk and Döttingerhöhe) the difference between a 1M and a M3 will be neglectable. I can imagine that in the very tight parts like Hatzenbach, Adenauer forst the 1M will be faster and it will probably also outbrake the M3. (lighter, same brakes)
let's see what the first drives tell.

[BMW-NC]

Originally Posted by mach330

is there a time for the 335is? i really want to know how these two car compares. price wise...i think they are pretty close as well?

Well, as the 335is is NOT on sale in Germany, it might be quite hard to find one to drive the lap.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

V10

M3=V8...my point was this car was marketed as an E30 M3 succesor....it should be closer to the m3 in terms of times.....BTW...I'm not sold on that car....sorry

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

The only place where 1-M can give problems to the M3 is in a very small tight autoX circuit where the short wheelbase of the 1-M will be an advantage.

Which is precisely the reason I wanted a 1M with DCT, for that type of weekend competition but will do the DD task as well......

[Advevo]

Put on R comp tires on the 1///M you will see times under the 8 mins. Put on a nice lightweight exhaust and racecats for better flow, put in 2 lightweight recaro race seats and go on lightweight 18 inch wheels and you will see insane Nring times.

This car has always been the better base for a track/race car then most other new M s.

I have raced M3 E90 and 130i. The M3 is faster on the straights but the 130i closes the gap in just a few corners. Lower weight more agile. etc. 3 series has grown to big carries to much base weight off factory.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Different cars for different purpooses. Both cars were built for a specific purpose in mind. The 1M is super quick in the mountains and the M3 is the Autobahn cruiser. Nothing wrong with either one.


Both cars are fantastic. Now when somebody puts an S65 in a 1M i think well know which car is definitively better then...lol

um.. S65 is a better car.

1M is a better sports car.

I'll take S65 anyday of the week however.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by formula M

U have issues..!

The Ring says it all.. the M3 & the 1M are 5 seconds apart. Which means that on any other track but the nurb, the 1M will certainly out handle the m3 and out pace it.

Why? The ring is a fast flowing HIGH SPEED road coarse, not a race circuit with heavy braking, or other cars. The results are pretty damning, that the 1M (which has 86hp less) is able to keep pace with the M3... which utterly destroys your argument.

You're just another cynical poster who hasn't looked at the press release on the 1M and chooses to remain ignorant from what this car offers.


The reality is: The 1M is the best handling BMW's and one of the most rare.

If you've ever read his posts in the M3 forum, you'd realize that it's better to spend the time putting him on the ignore list, than to actually read what he has to say. 330 has always come off as completely clueless and, as you said, ignorant.

Also, the E9x M3 is not a masterpiece. Come on now. Great car yes, but also a bloated gas guzzler. The 1M shows what a lighter weight vehicle with less power can really do.

[JHOOPS2]

I wonder how much the 19" wheels are hurting it's time?

-Jeff

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by techthentic

I must say, the 135i surprised the hell out of me, since the 335i is 8:26.00

Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11

That lap time of 135i is a suspect. There is no way this car is 17 sec. slower than e46m3.

Originally Posted by Evolution_GT

How the heck is the 335i faster than the 135i!? Makes no sense...

The 3er has a much better suspension chasis setup than the 1er.

Originally Posted by Advevo

Put on R comp tires on the 1///M you will see times under the 8 mins. Put on a nice lightweight exhaust and racecats for better flow, put in 2 lightweight recaro race seats and go on lightweight 18 inch wheels and you will see insane Nring times.

This car has always been the better base for a track/race car then most other new M s.

I have raced M3 E90 and 130i. The M3 is faster on the straights but the 130i closes the gap in just a few corners. Lower weight more agile. etc. 3 series has grown to big carries to much base weight off factory.

You are really changing your tune