1M Coupe Runs Nurburgring in 8:12

[JHOOPS2]

The Evo, but only because I can't get the Murcialago in my driveway.

[NFIDDY5]

Lamborghinis are just giant shiny dicks on wheels that scream " I have no wang but a lot of money to compensate." I would take the EVO.

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by Moo

8:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times

BTW I noticed Z4M coupe is also at 8:12

Better weight distribution, Lighter, gearing, MT, S-motor top end? 1M has significantly more torque. I guess the top end difference is the biggest factor? But CS has less power/weight than 1M and gets killed, looks more like balance is king.

Does any one know where the 135i fits in to the list? and MT vs. DCT?

[Sugarphreak]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

Better weight distribution, Lighter, gearing, MT, S-motor top end? 1M has significantly more torque. I guess the top end difference is the biggest factor? But CS has less power/weight than 1M and gets killed, looks more like balance is king.

Does any one know where the 135i fits in to the list? and MT vs. DCT?

I did a lot of searching and I have only come across one time for the stock 135i, it was 8:39, although I have no idea which transmission they used.

So lets see...
BMW 1M = 8:12 (492 s)
BMW 135i = 8.39 (519 s)

So the 1M is roughly %5.5 better than the 135i on a track such as this.

[tarheel91]

Originally Posted by tvrfan

hahaha the 1M is 3 sec slower on the ring than the "understeering pig" (like bmwfanboys like to say) TT-RS. and 1 second slower than the 295hp Evo X.

3 seconds on the ring is .6% of a lap. The difference in tires between all these cars accounts for far more than that. Claiming that a ring time on different days with different drivers, different conditions, and different quality tires proves one car is faster than another because of such a small margin isn't the smartest thing to do in my opinion.

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak

I did a lot of searching and I have only come across one time for the stock 135i, it was 8:39, although I have no idea which transmission they used.

So lets see...
BMW 1M = 8:12 (492 s)
BMW 135i = 8.39 (519 s)

So the 1M is roughly %5.5 better than the 135i on a track such as this.

It was not a stock 135i, it had all the performance pack parts added on, the link was posted the page before this.

http://www.e46fanatics.de/test-und-f...sind-drin.html

It is really funny reading all the comment's, before this time was released the sun shone out of the 1M's ass but now because it is a couple of seconds slower than a certain car (that was timed on a different day and with a different driver I might add) people are really disappointed.

Were you planning on buying the car just because it was a BMW that had an M badge so you could walk around and say "I have a BMW 1M, it goes round the 'Ring in under 8 minutes you know". Or were you going to buy it to enjoy driving it? It is obviously a pretty good car and further reviews will give a bit more in depth description of it's traits and abilities. I doubt many would find it hard to have fun in one so what's the problem? Is it not going to give enough bragging rights, so you can one up someone with an M3 or TTRS, well guess what they are all excellent cars when you get to this end of the market, it really just comes down to personal preference, how big your wallet is and what you want out of the car that makes you choose one over the others.

Oh and hi

[BrokenVert]

One of the best first posts ive ever read.

Spot on man...ohh and hi

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

It was not a stock 135i, it had all the performance pack parts added on, the link was posted the page before this.

http://www.e46fanatics.de/test-und-f...sind-drin.html

It is really funny reading all the comment's, before this time was released the sun shone out of the 1M's ass but now because it is a couple of seconds slower than a certain car (that was timed on a different day and with a different driver I might add) people are really disappointed.

Were you planning on buying the car just because it was a BMW that had an M badge so you could walk around and say "I have a BMW 1M, it goes round the 'Ring in under 8 minutes you know". Or were you going to buy it to enjoy driving it? It is obviously a pretty good car and further reviews will give a bit more in depth description of it's traits and abilities. I doubt many would find it hard to have fun in one so what's the problem? Is it not going to give enough bragging rights, so you can one up someone with an M3 or TTRS, well guess what they are all excellent cars when you get to this end of the market, it really just comes down to personal preference, how big your wallet is and what you want out of the car that makes you choose one over the others.

Oh and hi

[soupy]

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

It was not a stock 135i, it had all the performance pack parts added on, the link was posted the page before this.

http://www.e46fanatics.de/test-und-f...sind-drin.html

how bout actually reading the whole thread first:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=73

but for the rest of what you said, can't say I disagree with you at all .

[Sugarphreak]

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

It was not a stock 135i, it had all the performance pack parts added on, the link was posted the page before this.

http://www.e46fanatics.de/test-und-f...sind-drin.html

It is really funny reading all the comment's, before this time was released the sun shone out of the 1M's ass but now because it is a couple of seconds slower than a certain car (that was timed on a different day and with a different driver I might add) people are really disappointed.

Were you planning on buying the car just because it was a BMW that had an M badge so you could walk around and say "I have a BMW 1M, it goes round the 'Ring in under 8 minutes you know". Or were you going to buy it to enjoy driving it? It is obviously a pretty good car and further reviews will give a bit more in depth description of it's traits and abilities. I doubt many would find it hard to have fun in one so what's the problem? Is it not going to give enough bragging rights, so you can one up someone with an M3 or TTRS, well guess what they are all excellent cars when you get to this end of the market, it really just comes down to personal preference, how big your wallet is and what you want out of the car that makes you choose one over the others.


Oh and hi

I had found that number on a half dozen other locations, everytime it was without driver or detail information (as I had indicated). So I guess nobody has ever run a stock 135i around the ring? I would be interested to see how it performed.

Also, why not compare?

A lot of people like to know what they are getting into; the capabilities and limits of a car are important to anybody who likes to take thier car out to the track. You can get good value for your dollar if you pay attention, it isn't just about throwing money at a car company to get something that goes fast.

I mean really if you buy a car without any worry about how it performs... well I suppose if just you want to cruise around and show it off it doesn't matter

PS: Welcome to the forum!

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak

I had found that number on a half dozen other locations, everytime it was without driver or detail information (as I had indicated). So I guess nobody has ever run a stock 135i around the ring? I would be interested to see how it performed.

Also, why not compare?

A lot of people like to know what they are getting into; the capabilities and limits of a car are important to anybody who likes to take thier car out to the track. You can get good value for your dollar if you pay attention, it isn't just about throwing money at a car company to get something that goes fast.

I mean really if you buy a car without any worry about how it performs... well I suppose if just you want to cruise around and show it off it doesn't matter

PS: Welcome to the forum!

yeah I don't know why SportAuto never did a supertest of the 135i, maybe they thought it was too close to the 335i to bother as they put a good bit of work into a supertest, wind tunnel, Nurburgring, Hockenheim, wet lap tests ect...

I do agree that you should be interested in how the car you are spending a considerable amount of dough on, I think you misread my comments. I was commenting on how some were calling it a "fail" ect. just because of an arbitrary lap time. As I said other reputable testers, such as SportAuto and EVO in the UK, will give their opinions in the new year and I will be interested to read these

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by soupy

how bout actually reading the whole thread first:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=73

but for the rest of what you said, can't say I disagree with you at all .

That was just a response to the post I quoted, just giving the guy some more information that the 135i time he had wasn't stock but with the performance parts

I did mention the issue about different drivers a little bit further down though

[Sugarphreak]

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

yeah I don't know why SportAuto never did a supertest of the 135i, maybe they thought it was too close to the 335i to bother as they put a good bit of work into a supertest, wind tunnel, Nurburgring, Hockenheim, wet lap tests ect...

I do agree that you should be interested in how the car you are spending a considerable amount of dough on, I think you misread my comments. I was commenting on how some were calling it a "fail" ect. just because of an arbitrary lap time. As I said other reputable testers, such as SportAuto and EVO in the UK, will give their opinions in the new year and I will be interested to read these

Yeah I understand what you were getting at, I think it put up a good time personally.

The TT-RS and the 1M are very close, I am not sure why some of the comments are so critical that it wasn't able to beat it.

I would really like to see a stock 135i time for this course just out of interest.

[manuelf]

Originally Posted by tarheel91

3 seconds on the ring is .6% of a lap. The difference in tires between all these cars accounts for far more than that. Claiming that a ring time on different days with different drivers, different conditions, and different quality tires proves one car is faster than another because of such a small margin isn't the smartest thing to do in my opinion.

Thanks for this reasonable remark.
I would rephrase it more harsh:
Everyone bitching about 3 seconds on Nordschleife and thinking that says anything about which car is faster than another has absolutely NO clue and should better stfu!

Even experienced drivers on the NOS are not able to repeatedly have a lap time within 3 seconds on the same day, with the same car, with the same weather conditions... so any talk about 3 seconds is just ridiculous....

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak

Yeah I understand what you were getting at, I think it put up a good time personally.

The TT-RS and the 1M are very close, I am not sure why some of the comments are so critical that it wasn't able to beat it.

I would really like to see a stock 135i time for this course just out of interest.

Conjecture of course...but based on the multiple things i've seen including lightning laps in c+d, as well as the comparison with the cayman s (8 sec slower...supertest ran 8.17....so 8.25 for the modded 135) it's going to sit north of the 335i in 8:30+ range.

The 335 is a much better sorted chassis.

That tuned 135 has the mods most of us do, mild suspension, tires, maybe tune to get to 335 levels and still be a bit behind even the e46 m3. Tells you a lot about the parts bin car that didn't get the design attention of say the big selling 3 series, and misses out on suspension, tires, LSD, etc.

So in the end it's like an e36 m3 (8:35)....with a lot more luxury and refinement but with a lot less 'feel'. OUCH

This makes the 1M a LOT more appealing...too bad they skipped the DCT which would have made it a track monster.

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by roo97ss

Conjecture of course...but based on the multiple things i've seen including lightning laps in c+d, as well as the comparison with the cayman s (8 sec slower...supertest ran 8.17....so 8.25 for the modded 135) it's going to sit north of the 335i in 8:30+ range.

The 335 is a much better sorted chassis.

That tuned 135 has the mods most of us do, mild suspension, tires, maybe tune to get to 335 levels and still be a bit behind even the e46 m3. Tells you a lot about the parts bin car that didn't get the design attention of say the big selling 3 series, and misses out on suspension, tires, LSD, etc.

So in the end it's like an e36 m3 (8:35)....with a lot more luxury and refinement but with a lot less 'feel'. OUCH

This makes the 1M a LOT more appealing...too bad they skipped the DCT which would have made it a track monster.

I really don't understand where this impression that the 335i's chassis is "better" than the 135i comes from. If you have data, please share. Internet fanboys' impressions (esp 335i owners) don't count.

The 335i and 135i having very similar laptimes is much more plausible, with the lighter 135i having maybe a slight advantage. Edmund's head to head test of the E46 M3, 335i and 135i under the same conditions and same driver showed very little difference between all 3 cars in terms of laptimes, with the 335i being the slowest.

My personal impression of the 135i at track days is consistent in that a well driven stock 135i is at least on par with a stock E46 M3.

No, Sport Auto has never performed a Supertest on the 135i, and we may never see one. If Sport Auto had tested the 135i on the Ring, my guess is that it would be between 8:22 and 8:26 (somewhere between the E46 M3 and 335i). However, I think it is very likely a Supertest will be performed on the upcoming 1M, so we'll really see how the 1M will compare to other cars Sport Auto has tested.

[AVM3]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Looks like with DCT it wouild have been quicker than the E92 M3.

Can't have that now, can we?

"Roasters"? "Moupes"?

Get a spelling checker, please. You post like 3rd grade drop outs!

lol. you are probably a poor english major.

[V_therussian]

Originally Posted by marcel b

yes it comes with a LSD.

Why would you compare a 1M with Porsches or a Nissan GTR???? They are in a completely different price range. A ferrari 458 is also faster then a 1M
And a GTR is maybe relative cheap to buy, but wait until you see the maintenance cost and fuel consumption. After every trackvisit you have to change the gearbox oil, otherwise you loose your warranty. (this is how it works in Europe at least) They also eliminated the launch control because the gearbox could not handle it. A set of tires of the GTR , and it overheats quite quickly. During the wintertire test of German magazine the GTR overheated. A guy I know who drove the GTR on the Ring managed 4 laps on a full tank only... (not even 100km on he sold it as he said he was spending more time fueling then driving.
Do not understand me wrong, I love the GTR (new and old ones) and it think it is a fantastic piece of engineering. But I think the comparison to a 1M not correct.

Why would I compare 1M to GTR? Because they are both street-legal track toys. I think, for someone, who is able to afford a "track toy", the price is not necessarily that great of an issue - but I may be wrong on that. It DOES go around the 'ring considerably faster than anything in its price range though.

I don't know, man... all the things you've mentioned about the GTR are possibly true. Even though the two people I know who have GTR's (R35's - both of them) have never voiced anything like that to me. And both of these guys are real enthusiasts - track, driving events, the whole nine. I did notice a very weird grinding noise from one of these GTR's transmission - the guy, who owns it told me that the dealership told him "it is absolutely normal"... : did NOT sound normal.

Launch control is still there - they just renamed it something else, I think "snow start" or smth - don't remember exactly. In my mind, there's no doubt that they renamed it to avoid warranty claims from people doing repeated launches and burning the clutch(es).

I mean, every car has its pluses and minuses. Personally, as much as I was looking forward to the 1M, I'm underwhelmed - to say the least. If you love it - Heck, I might test drive one and change my mind myself.

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

...
It is really funny reading all the comment's, before this time was released the sun shone out of the 1M's ass but now because it is a couple of seconds slower than a certain car (that was timed on a different day and with a different driver I might add) people are really disappointed.
...

You're absolutely right there IMHO

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Even experienced drivers on the NOS are not able to repeatedly have a lap time within 3 seconds on the same day, with the same car, with the same weather conditions... so any talk about 3 seconds is just ridiculous....

That is simply not true, but the rest of your statement comes close. Experienced Nordschleife drivers can do exactly that. They don't care about the last second, but they are able to run 10 laps in a window of max. 5 seconds despite traffic. I had race timing show three consecutive, own laps within two seconds more than once. And I know a lot of drivers that can do the same.

A temperature difference of 10°C can make a difference in the laptime on the "Schleife" of as much as 10 seconds. IF we are talking about a temperature range of between 35 and 15°C. If temperatures are higher or lower than this range, the laptimes will drop more. And no, this is not theory (as 99,9% of the posters in this thread are quoting) but my own experience on the Nordschleife, driving my own racer.

Different drivers, same car, can easily account for a laptime difference of over a minute on the Schleife. Even pairing experienced (amateur) racers, it is extremely difficult to find drivers that are exactly as fast as their team mates. If there is a difference of no more than 5 seconds between drivers, you consider them "just as fast as" on the Schleife.

Semis compared to good series tires make a difference of approx. 15 seconds if the driver can drive the tires. Slicks are another 10-15 seconds faster, depending on which slicks (or semis) you are running on which car (e.g. a Dunlop Slick on a 325 is at least 5 seconds slower than the same size Michelin or Yokohama Slick).

So what am I trying to say? This "alleged ring laptime" discussion is pure bs. No more, no less. And the discussion 135/335 compared to the M346 is too. Driving the ring without LSD, you stand NO chance compared to a car, that has a LSD. Fact.

As far as the 1Ms potential, I am pretty confident that it can beat the M346 on the Nordschleife. Knowing what an M392 can do there and having driven the M346 there. Stock, it will not be able to come too close to the M392... no way. 80 PS are 80 PS on the Nordschleife. There is no way can you make that difference up in handling alone.

I honestly don't care, what Horst von Saurma says on the car. And I don't care what time he allegedly records. What difference is that going to make? None. If this thread would be restricted to those being able to even come close to such a laptime, there'd be no more than 10 people at the most posting here.

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

That is simply not true, but the rest of your statement comes close. Experienced Nordschleife drivers can do exactly that. They don't care about the last second, but they are able to run 10 laps in a window of max. 5 seconds despite traffic. I had race timing show three consecutive, own laps within two seconds more than once. And I know a lot of drivers that can do the same.

A temperature difference of 10°C can make a difference in the laptime on the "Schleife" of as much as 10 seconds. IF we are talking about a temperature range of between 35 and 15°C. If temperatures are higher or lower than this range, the laptimes will drop more. And no, this is not theory (as 99,9% of the posters in this thread are quoting) but my own experience on the Nordschleife, driving my own racer.

Different drivers, same car, can easily account for a laptime difference of over a minute on the Schleife. Even pairing experienced (amateur) racers, it is extremely difficult to find drivers that are exactly as fast as their team mates. If there is a difference of no more than 5 seconds between drivers, you consider them "just as fast as" on the Schleife.

Semis compared to good series tires make a difference of approx. 15 seconds if the driver can drive the tires. Slicks are another 10-15 seconds faster, depending on which slicks (or semis) you are running on which car (e.g. a Dunlop Slick on a 325 is at least 5 seconds slower than the same size Michelin or Yokohama Slick).

So what am I trying to say? This "alleged ring laptime" discussion is pure bs. No more, no less. And the discussion 135/335 compared to the M346 is too. Driving the ring without LSD, you stand NO chance compared to a car, that has a LSD. Fact.

As far as the 1Ms potential, I am pretty confident that it can beat the M346 on the Nordschleife. Knowing what an M392 can do there and having driven the M346 there. Stock, it will not be able to come too close to the M392... no way. 80 PS are 80 PS on the Nordschleife. There is no way can you make that difference up in handling alone.

I honestly don't care, what Horst von Saurma says on the car. And I don't care what time he allegedly records. What difference is that going to make? None. If this thread would be restricted to those being able to even come close to such a laptime, there'd be no more than 10 people at the most posting here.

you are an optimist I am not a fan of Saurma, there are many faster drivers around there, but never the less, to be able to drive the same lap as him you need to have several hundreds laps of experience and next to that some talent

Regarding the LSD it depends. If it is a similar / standard car, you are right. But I drove my 335i without LSD over there with a proper suspension (KW clubsport) and Dunlop Direzza 03G and walked away from standard M3 E46s. Now with a Drexler LSD installed the difference is even bigger. The difference in traction and in handling is more then noticeable.

A big disadvantage of the 335i is its weight. Mine was 1615kg with a full tank, meaning 1712kg according to the EU norm. This is 97kg more then BMW states The weight is really killing in the tight sections. So knowing the 1M is about 100kg lighter, has more Power, a much better suspensions layout, better brakes and a shorter wheelbase and knowing what the 335i can do I am looking forward to the 1M

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by formula M

I understand knowing these things is common track talk shared from years of cross experience. But do you really mean to say Sport Auto's ring times are horsesh!t ..? You cannot blatantly ignore them. They go through great lengths to equalize erroneos variables. The data on the runs are freely available. Plus, they don't just do a single run..

I fail to see a real logical basis, for your dismissal of ring times here.

there is some controversy in regards to the lap times of Sport Auto. One example. The 997 Carrera S had a Sport Auto time of 07:50, which is only marginally slower as the 996GT3 (07:48).

By coinsidence I meet Walter Röhrl on the Ring (I guess you know him, currently he is THE testdriver of Porsche and involved in the development of every Porsche) a short time after the test was published. He was there with a 997 Carrera S and he told me (and some other people talking with him) that he came to drive some laps himself with the 997 Carrera S (the track was hired after the touristenfahrten) as he didnot believe the time published in the Super Test from Sport Auto. He said it is impossible that the Carrera S is only 2 seconds slower then a 996GT3.

It is also said that the 07:50 of the CSL is an "impossible" time by the way...

[EmmDrei]

@Formula M: The problem with HvS laptimes? They are not logical. The first time I noticed, they reported a laptime in SportAuto, that was faster than the time he had run in the race version of the very same car during the 24-hour race. Race version on slicks compared to stock. How is that possible? It isn't. The SportAuto time for the M3 GTS is off. And there are more examples. Sometimes they puzzle sector times together, sometimes they just seem to guess a time. Maybe based on which of their advertising clients just had the highest budget available. If it's Porsche, then a BMW can't be too fast. And... I have seen him race. From cockpit to cockpit. And I can look at his (training - strange enough, they never have a camera rolling for the actual timed laps) onboard laps and see how many mistakes he makes or how often he simply misses the line or braking points. He is a good amateur driver, no doubt about it, but he is not the institution people make of him. Bottom line is, he has a magazine to keep running and that is what he does. And sometimes economical interestes seem to interfere with timing.

I did not mean to say, that the M392 will outhandle the 1M. It won't. But the M392 will be faster. Simply because there are too many long uphill stretches where sheer grunt really counts on the ring. I race against e90 325 in the class my e36 runs in. They weigh 125kg (275lbs) more, but also have 25PS more. If you have equal drivers on the e90 and the e36 and the cars are similar as far as bodyshell, tires and shocks go, then you do not stand a chance in the e36. The e36 is faster in a number of sections, but these are not enough to be able to make up for the e90s horsepower advantage. And that is driving close to the edge. Taking a stock car on stock tires, imho no driver can make up that horsepower advantage, when driving both cars back to back.

7 seconds on the Nordschleife just isn't a world to me. If you look at the video in my sig, that shows two situations where I catch a Mercedes. Those two situations cost over 5 seconds on that lap. 7 seconds simply is nothing on the Nordschleife. You can have a 5 second difference by running the car at 10:00h and at 15°C instead of running at 14:00h and at 35°C. Simply because the oxygen level is higher. Fact is, the M392 is fast and it is a car that gives a driver an extremely high confidence level on the Nordschleife. I am pretty sure, the 1M will feel more "nervous". That psychological difference alone can easily account for 5 seconds or more. So where's the point?

It'll be a fun car and not as fat as the M392 is, that's all I care about. I look forward to testdriving it and I am pretty sure, that it'll replace my M392. What does that tell you?

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

@Formula M: The problem with HvS laptimes? They are not logical. The first time I noticed, they reported a laptime in SportAuto, that was faster than the time he had run in the race version of the very same car during the 24-hour race. Race version on slicks compared to stock. How is that possible? It isn't. The SportAuto time for the M3 GTS is off. And there are more examples. Sometimes they puzzle sector times together, sometimes they just seem to guess a time. Maybe based on which of their advertising clients just had the highest budget available. If it's Porsche, then a BMW can't be too fast. And... I have seen him race. From cockpit to cockpit. And I can look at his (training - strange enough, they never have a camera rolling for the actual timed laps) onboard laps and see how many mistakes he makes or how often he simply misses the line or braking points. He is a good amateur driver, no doubt about it, but he is not the institution people make of him. Bottom line is, he has a magazine to keep running and that is what he does. And sometimes economical interestes seem to interfere with timing.

I did not mean to say, that the M392 will outhandle the 1M. It won't. But the M392 will be faster. Simply because there are too many long uphill stretches where sheer grunt really counts on the ring. I race against e90 325 in the class my e36 runs in. They weigh 125kg (275lbs) more, but also have 25PS more. If you have equal drivers on the e90 and the e36 and the cars are similar as far as bodyshell, tires and shocks go, then you do not stand a chance in the e36. The e36 is faster in a number of sections, but these are not enough to be able to make up for the e90s horsepower advantage. And that is driving close to the edge. Taking a stock car on stock tires, imho no driver can make up that horsepower advantage, when driving both cars back to back.

7 seconds on the Nordschleife just isn't a world to me. If you look at the video in my sig, that shows two situations where I catch a Mercedes. Those two situations cost over 5 seconds on that lap. 7 seconds simply is nothing on the Nordschleife. You can have a 5 second difference by running the car at 10:00h and at 15°C instead of running at 14:00h and at 35°C. Simply because the oxygen level is higher. Fact is, the M392 is fast and it is a car that gives a driver an extremely high confidence level on the Nordschleife. I am pretty sure, the 1M will feel more "nervous". That psychological difference alone can easily account for 5 seconds or more. So where's the point?

It'll be a fun car and not as fat as the M392 is, that's all I care about. I look forward to testdriving it and I am pretty sure, that it'll replace my M392. What does that tell you?

+1000