M3 wishbones only

[philaf_666]

Do I need to upgrade both the Front Lower Wishbone and Front Tension Rod or can I just change one of the two?

Which one would have more benefits? I'm guessing the wishbone would have a bigger impact due to the -.75 camber. Do you think I would see the difference in stiffness?

Is it hard to install by myself?

Thanks!

[wu2x]

I'm interested in this too. Maybe we should start a GB for this one too!

[akak1997]

I'll eventually do this mod, but I'm gonna wait till I got my coilovers + camber plates.. can't afford to do alignment all the time.. ROFL

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

Do I need to upgrade both the Front Lower Wishbone and Front Tension Rod or can I just change one of the two?

Which one would have more benefits? I'm guessing the wishbone would have a bigger impact due to the -.75 camber. Do you think I would see the difference in stiffness?

Is it hard to install by myself?

Thanks!

you can do just the wishbones if you want. they'll have the camber effect that most people want. the tension rods should only improve the feeling of the car... i dont think there are significant geometric changes with the tension rods. i havent done the install, but just by eyeballing it, the install looks like cake...

BUT it looks like it's almost certain to throw your alignment WAY out of whack... like so much that it could even be undriveable, so plan on doing a "string method" alignment, or installing them somewhere with an alignment rack.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

you can do just the wishbones if you want. they'll have the camber effect that most people want. the tension rods should only improve the feeling of the car... i dont think there are significant geometric changes with the tension rods. i havent done the install, but just by eyeballing it, the install looks like cake...

BUT it looks like it's almost certain to throw your alignment WAY out of whack... like so much that it could even be undriveable, so plan on doing a "string method" alignment, or installing them somewhere with an alignment rack.

I did the install of the front and rear pieces. The rods do have a slightly different geometry. I think it might give you a bit of extra caster. The install is not too bad. Getting to some of the bolts is bit of a PITA and getting the rod into the metal holder involved a bit of wacking with a rubber mallet. Getting the hole in the bushing lined up with the holes in the metal holder took some time. Overall not too bad. Get a 21mm wrench and a T40 torx bit for your socket. You will need the T40 torx to hold the ball joint in place while you wrench in onto the hub. Using just a 21mm socket will just spin the ball joint.

The alignment was waaaaaaay off after the install. I initially thought I had f-ed up something bad when I took it for a test drive. Turns out the toe was so far off I could not make a turn unless it was a very wide turn where I did not have to go anywhere near full lock. It was a hairy 2 mile drive to the alignment shop.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

you can do just the wishbones if you want. they'll have the camber effect that most people want. the tension rods should only improve the feeling of the car... i dont think there are significant geometric changes with the tension rods. i havent done the install, but just by eyeballing it, the install looks like cake...

Actually, what I'm looking for the most is to have more precise and direct steering when cornering. Should I look into wishbones or tension rods? I guess the right answer is both, but if I only want to do one?

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

Actually, what I'm looking for the most is to have more precise and direct steering when cornering. Should I look into wishbones or tension rods? I guess the right answer is both, but if I only want to do one?

The bushing on the tension rod is very soft compared to the M3 tension rod bushing and will give you the biggest difference in feel of the two. But you will gain the extra camber from the wishbones. of course, as you said, do both if you swing it. You can do all 4 corners for under $1k. Not cheap, but not too bad when you consider there are 8 suspension pieces (2 per corner) plus 2 ABS clips and a headlight regulator rod. Plus you can do the work yourself if you like with minimal tools.

Note that if you do the wishbones, you will need the M3 regulator rod (under $10). The tension rods do not require extra parts.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by nordique14

The bushing on the tension rod is very soft compared to the M3 tension rod bushing and will give you the biggest difference in feel of the two. But you will gain the extra camber from the wishbones. of course, as you said, do both if you swing it. You can do all 4 corners for under $1k. Not cheap, but not too bad when you consider there are 8 suspension pieces (2 per corner) plus 2 ABS clips and a headlight regulator rod. Plus you can do the work yourself if you like with minimal tools.

Note that if you do the wishbones, you will need the M3 regulator rod (under $10). The tension rods do not require extra parts.

Great info thanks! Would you say the tension rods are easier or harder to install?

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by nordique14

The alignment was waaaaaaay off after the install. I initially thought I had f-ed up something bad when I took it for a test drive. Turns out the toe was so far off I could not make a turn unless it was a very wide turn where I did not have to go anywhere near full lock. It was a hairy 2 mile drive to the alignment shop.

i thought that might happen... i'm sure your front tires LOVED that! haha

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

Great info thanks! Would you say the tension rods are easier or harder to install?

Tension rods were easier. In either case you will need a 21mm wrench and a T40 torx socket.

[Mad Dragon]

Don't forget that you're supposed to tighten the bolts when the car is resting on level ground.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

Don't forget that you're supposed to tighten the bolts when the car is resting on level ground.

What do you mean exactly? The car has to be on the ground, not on the jack? How do you do that? I mean, how can you reach the bolts?

[Mark M]

This has been a rule since the dawn of time.......

"Automotive suspension bolts should only be torqued when preloaded!!!"

This is very important as it relates to suspension bushing life and preload. Rubber bushings are a form of a spring. They flex as the car is driven and spring back to their neutral position. If you torque the suspension without preloading it, you are altering the neutral position of the bushing and thus encouraging premature wear of that bushing.

Those who use to have an e28 or e34 know what I mean. The front thrust arm bushings were notorious for early failures. Root cause on most failures was due to incorrect torquing procedures.

Get a set of ramps, drive the car on the ramps, craw under, then torque these critical bolts.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by Mark M

This has been a rule since the dawn of time.......

"Automotive suspension bolts should only be torqued when preloaded!!!"

This is very important as it relates to suspension bushing life and preload. Rubber bushings are a form of a spring. They flex as the car is driven and spring back to their neutral position. If you torque the suspension without preloading it, you are altering the neutral position of the bushing and thus encouraging premature wear of that bushing.

Those who use to have an e28 or e34 know what I mean. The front thrust arm bushings were notorious for early failures. Root cause on most failures was due to incorrect torquing procedures.

Get a set of ramps, drive the car on the ramps, craw under, then torque these critical bolts.

Make sense... thanks!

[amsfoto]

Those of you who have done the M3 suspension parts, how big was the difference after the install?

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by amsfoto

Those of you who have done the M3 suspension parts, how big was the difference after the install?

Seems pretty good looking at this thread :

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...light=m3+parts

[CDR_UK]

^^^ +1

Also what are the torque specs, does anyone know if there are any docs freely available with the torque specs?

[CoolToolGuy]

Originally Posted by amsfoto

Those of you who have done the M3 suspension parts, how big was the difference after the install?

The Dinan bushing kit covers the front and rear. The front track arms make the steering much tighter and responsive. The rear bushings greatly improve your traction.

The Dinan kit is straight from the E90 M3, and you may save a little if you buy the parts on your own. For me, it gives me a little more cred with my servicing dealer to say "I have the Dinan kit" than if I say I identified and bought the parts myself. They could respond "How do we know they are the right parts - they are not specified for the 135i."

I am testing things as I can. The other day I was headed uphill, stopped at a red light in the rain. When the light changed I goosed it after pulling away normally. No wheel hop, no wheelspin, just straight up the hill. I accidently left the DTC on, but I didn't notice much out of that. That said, the Quaife LSD probably had something to do with the absence of wheelspin. . .

It has been mentioned on this board that the rear bushings give the biggest traction improvement for the E82 over the M3 rear guide rods. The front track arm stiffens up the front, and some negative camber can be adjusted in during alignment. The lower wishbones certainly will give you the negative camber.

My plan is to hold the decision on the lower wishbones until I get the Perf suspension installed and see how that works out.

My 2 cents - YMMV.

Have Fun,
Rick

[akak1997]

Originally Posted by Mark M

This has been a rule since the dawn of time.......

"Automotive suspension bolts should only be torqued when preloaded!!!"

This is very important as it relates to suspension bushing life and preload. Rubber bushings are a form of a spring. They flex as the car is driven and spring back to their neutral position. If you torque the suspension without preloading it, you are altering the neutral position of the bushing and thus encouraging premature wear of that bushing.

Those who use to have an e28 or e34 know what I mean. The front thrust arm bushings were notorious for early failures. Root cause on most failures was due to incorrect torquing procedures.

Get a set of ramps, drive the car on the ramps, craw under, then torque these critical bolts.

I've seen people get solid concrete blocks from home depot and put vinyl floor tiles on them.
Jack up your car and put it on jack stands (4 corners) Place a few piece of Solid concrete blocks (however high you need so you could crawl under), place a few pieces of vinyl floor tiles on the concrete block. Make sure it's level (put a piece of 2x4 or 4x6 between the blocks, weight it down with something, like another block) if not level, add vinyl floor tiles until it is. lower your car on to the floor tiles/blocks. Crawl under and tighten the bolts. PITA... but you save a few bucks for DIY...
you can use this method for doing alignment yourself, add some grease between the floor tiles so they act as a turntable.

[Dangerlucas]

Another way to torque the bolts down when one jack stands is to simply load the suspension with a floor jack. That's what I did and it worked out just fine.

[Dangerlucas]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

Seems pretty good looking at this thread :

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...light=m3+parts

I was just going to post a link to my review for him, but it looks like you beat me to it. Thanks.

[jlee]

Its hard to get a good idea of the true gain from just doing the M3 suspension parts since he has a KW coilover kit.

I did a quick search and didn't find anything specific, but is there a review of a stock 135i being upgraded with the parts being discussed ?

Thanks

Jeff