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      12-21-2010, 11:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyratOne View Post
Roger that. I do not know the answer to this question, and I worried about it myself. One would hope a premier builder(BMW) & subsequent tuner (M) would flush that out.
Yeah, it's not something I would turn the car down for when BMW is replacing them, but it would be pretty embarrassing for them none the less.
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      12-22-2010, 04:24 AM   #24
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Mapezzul, do you expect that a performance package will be offered, to bump up the HP?
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      12-23-2010, 04:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
It is an N54 and there have been internal changes made for the M.
Yes I stand corrected N54. However your idea that there were internal changes is 100% speculative and on top of that highly unlikely from an economics point of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Other manufacturers (and BMW more recently) have used tighter tolerances on performance motors but the same case- VW/Porsche for ever have done this and BMW has done this with the twin turbo V8 in the X6/X5 M.
Sure, a high performance motor is likely to have tighter tolerances all around compared to motor from a cheap entry level car. That was not the issue I stated as not the case though.
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      12-23-2010, 04:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
However your idea that there were internal changes is 100% speculative and on top of that highly unlikely from an economics point of view.
I wouldn't say 100% speculative - perhaps more like 50%. I think he's got a few friends on the inside of BMW NA. I suspect we'll get more answers in a couple weeks after the official reveal in Detroit.
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      12-23-2010, 06:54 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes I stand corrected N54. However your idea that there were internal changes is 100% speculative and on top of that highly unlikely from an economics point of view.



Sure, a high performance motor is likely to have tighter tolerances all around compared to motor from a cheap entry level car. That was not the issue I stated as not the case though.
100% not speculative- unless M is sending false information. I really don't speculate at all because in the end it helps nobody. I am interested in providing facts to people that want theam just like I do.

All I am able to say is that M made changes as they saw fit. As for the economies part- ever consider the changes could be made to all current N54s to make it viable? You need to understand how BMW looks at these things, there is a reason the 128i ended up with the air curtain system as well. They used other cars development to make the 1M even obtainable.

In the end all that matters is that M made tweaks to make this thing track viable. There will be more after Detroit.
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      12-23-2010, 08:46 AM   #28
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^ That reads to me as more cooling efforts went into this engine which I knew would happen. Can you give us a clue as to whether or not the DME was touched or is it pretty much the same as the Z4is?
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      12-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #29
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I love the speculation when the facts are already available

Go to www.realoem.com and compare the specs of the regular N54 from a 335i with the N54 from Z4 35is:

- Whole engine part numbers are different (of course, the oil pans are different). Moreover, the engine part numbers are the same between Z4 35i and 35is !
- Only one of the turbos on the Z4 35is has different part number, the other one is the same part number, which means the turbos are the same specs as the regular N54. Moreover, the turbos between Z4 35i and 35is have the same part numbers.
- Engine blocks and pistons have the same part numbers
- Cylinder heads have the same part numbers
- High pressure fuel pumps have the same part numbers
- Injectors have the same part numbers
- Spark plugs have the same part numbers
- Intake manifolds have the same part numbers
- ECUs have the same part numbers.

Sorry to rain on your parade, guys...

Last edited by cstavaru; 12-23-2010 at 03:22 PM..
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      12-23-2010, 03:47 PM   #30
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Considering BMW makes mid year changes in march all the time you reliance on realoem is a bit silly and as in the past they are slow to populate changes. How many HPFP are they showing?

Last time I checked the 1M has not been built yet and from we have heard from M is that changes have been made- you'll have to wait a bit more for specifics.
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      12-23-2010, 04:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
I love the speculation when the facts are already available

Go to www.realoem.com and compare the specs of the regular N54 from a 335i with the N54 from Z4 35is:

- Whole engine part numbers are different (of course, the oil pans are different). Moreover, the engine part numbers are the same between Z4 35i and 35is !
- Only one of the turbos on the Z4 35is has different part number, the other one is the same part number, which means the turbos are the same specs as the regular N54. Moreover, the turbos between Z4 35i and 35is have the same part numbers.
- Engine blocks and pistons have the same part numbers
- Cylinder heads have the same part numbers
- High pressure fuel pumps have the same part numbers
- Injectors have the same part numbers
- Spark plugs have the same part numbers
- Intake manifolds have the same part numbers
- ECUs have the same part numbers.

Sorry to rain on your parade, guys...
YuP! I suspect you are correct (cstavaru) indeed. I don't think BMW has changed much in the way of the engine. But perhaps, they made changes via the software though.



I also remember reading that the x35i engine is the same in all the BMW variants. But in the 135i the front turbo housing hits the frame rails... so on a 135i it has a different turbo housing than say a 335i or 535i would have. Other than that all the motors are the same.

I guess we will have to wait a few more weeks - to see what BMW says they changed on the 1M N54 hybrid motor.

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      12-23-2010, 05:03 PM   #32
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the 335is is basically the stock N54 with the BMW Performance Power Kit. The PPK consists of an aux radiator, bigger fan (new relays and software), spark plugs (for older cars) and updated software. The difference is that the 335is has overboost feature (additional torque for a short burst) while the PPK does not.

I am not sure if the z435is is the same as the 335is just with 15hp more. Maybe the Z435is has more hp due to a less restrictive exhaust? Obviously there is different software.
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      12-23-2010, 05:04 PM   #33
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The 1M coupe is the parts bin car of bmw. The budget to make this car was very low and because of the parts bin this car exists.

So my guess is. The engine is a Z4is engine not much changed only flywheel and ecu which is rather cheap to develop.

And of course a very fast M badge on the engine cover.

I hope i am wrong.
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      12-23-2010, 05:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
100% not speculative- unless M is sending false information. I really don't speculate at all because in the end it helps nobody. I am interested in providing facts to people that want theam just like I do.

All I am able to say is that M made changes as they saw fit. As for the economies part- ever consider the changes could be made to all current N54s to make it viable? You need to understand how BMW looks at these things, there is a reason the 128i ended up with the air curtain system as well. They used other cars development to make the 1M even obtainable.

In the end all that matters is that M made tweaks to make this thing track viable. There will be more after Detroit.
Well that is right back to square one and semantics really. If BMW is making changes to all of the engines based on needing them for the 1M then the answer to the basic question is yes - the internals are identical to the base engine in the base model car. Yes perhaps not the base engine in the base car today, but at the time when the 1M is available it will then be identical.

I tire, as I know others do, of all of the "privileged" "insiders" with a direct line right into BMW M who have all sorts of rumors and can never share their sources. I suppose it is satisfying to after the fact being able to say "I told you so". However, when you can't share details or sources your credibility will be questioned. No way around that.

The 1M engine IS a standard engine for all practical purposed and the 1M is a "parts bin" car as reiterated just above. This is something never done before for an M car. Of course having a ton of E9X M3 parts from those parts bins is fantastic... Not trying to dis here but simply recognize the essence of the situation.
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      12-23-2010, 06:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
This is something never done before for an M car.



I'm going to say it again... the problem is not the 1M, the problem is not naming the Z4 35is a Z4M. Now the M Division needs to be explaining the obvious: they just grabbed a regular engine from the line and installed it in an M-car.

As Hitler said in the video... but they will sell.
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      12-23-2010, 08:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
- ECUs have the same part numbers.
That one basically tells you everything you need to know about the 1M engine.
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      12-23-2010, 09:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future M1 owner View Post
That one basically tells you everything you need to know about the 1M engine.
NOT with BMW's ecu's! A new ecu is NOT coded.

When you buy a new ecu they do not have the software loaded! The dealer (or the BMW factory) has the "code" the ECU to the car.

So... back to square one.
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      12-23-2010, 09:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes I stand corrected N54. However your idea that there were internal changes is 100% speculative and on top of that highly unlikely from an economics point of view.
During the pre-drive event in Leipzig, we were told that internal tolerances had been changed. Why would they lie about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
NOT with BMW's ecu's! A new ecu is NOT coded.

When you buy a new ecu they do not have the software loaded! The dealer (or the BMW factory) has the "code" the ECU to the car.

So... back to square one.
Exactly. For example, when an ECU has the BMW Performance software loaded on it, the part number of the ECU will not change.
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      12-23-2010, 10:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
During the pre-drive event in Leipzig, we were told that internal tolerances had been changed. Why would they lie about that?
Uhhh yeah. Big profit hungry corporations with overly aggressive marketing folks never lie to sell a product. Heaven forbid they would never do so...



Simply based on economics you can conclude with a 99.9% probability that the internal tolerances on motor internals HAVE NOT been changed. If they were updated, they would be updated for EVERY motor using the same parts and the individual part numbers would not change. Those parts would also remain to be interchangeable with the old parts.
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      12-24-2010, 12:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique14 View Post
the 335is is basically the stock N54 with the BMW Performance Power Kit. The PPK consists of an aux radiator, bigger fan (new relays and software), spark plugs (for older cars) and updated software. The difference is that the 335is has overboost feature (additional torque for a short burst) while the PPK does not.

I am not sure if the z435is is the same as the 335is just with 15hp more. Maybe the Z435is has more hp due to a less restrictive exhaust? Obviously there is different software.
The Z4 35is has a different airintake if I am not mistaken:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/09/10/bm...4-sdrive-35is/
"This increased performance is secondary to a larger, free-flowing intake manifold, increased peak turbo boost, a new high-flow exhaust, and reworked engine management."

strange thing though... I just check on RealOEM.com and the Z4 35i and 35is have identical part numbers for the airintake, the manifold and for the exhaust with the exception of the end part of the exhaust in the rear.

Last edited by marcel b; 12-24-2010 at 12:22 AM..
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      12-24-2010, 01:26 AM   #41
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Yes, it is a 4 stroke engine, similar to the one in Civic and Corollas as well as 35is. Do not buy!
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      12-24-2010, 03:45 AM   #42
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Why the speculation if the M division has modified the ECU software? That is guaranteed considering no other N54 car has an M-button. Of course they have modified the software. Most likely done some improvements so you have a more NA experience from the N54 as well. But the engine is still N54.

But why complain about that? A wider body, M diff and the N54 engine and tuned software plus extra cooling which means no limp mode at the track (if it does limp because of heat then M-division is screwed). That is a sweet package.
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      12-24-2010, 03:50 AM   #43
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You are all discussing about the same part numbers between 335is and Z4 35is... and with this as fact you say the same engine is in the 1M. BUT... we still don't have part numbers from the 1M N54 engine!
So this is senseless to talk about.. lets wait until the 1M engine specs and graphics are only also to compare with the Z4 35is.
In my opinion I really doubt that M did not change any Hardware parts of the engine....
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      12-24-2010, 08:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
I love the speculation when the facts are already available

Go to www.realoem.com and compare the specs of the regular N54 from a 335i with the N54 from Z4 35is:

- Whole engine part numbers are different (of course, the oil pans are different). Moreover, the engine part numbers are the same between Z4 35i and 35is !
- Only one of the turbos on the Z4 35is has different part number, the other one is the same part number, which means the turbos are the same specs as the regular N54. Moreover, the turbos between Z4 35i and 35is have the same part numbers.
- Engine blocks and pistons have the same part numbers
- Cylinder heads have the same part numbers
- High pressure fuel pumps have the same part numbers
- Injectors have the same part numbers
- Spark plugs have the same part numbers
- Intake manifolds have the same part numbers
- ECUs have the same part numbers.

Sorry to rain on your parade, guys...
Well done.
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