Track Days are addictive (and potentially expensive)

lavmugen · 10-18-2010, 11:17 PM

So I did my 3rd and perhaps the final trackday of the season/year today at Mission Raceways in Mission, BC. It was about 11 deg celsius (52 deg F).

I have a stock 2011 N55 135i with E93 M3 front sway and Hankook V12 Evos with f 42psi/r 38psi. Somehow I got put into the advanced group today (I only had 2 previous trackday experience), so I was running fairly hard all day.

Few issues/thoughts:

1. Tire walls on the Hankooks are EXTREMELY soft. The fronts were running at almost 50 psi hot and it still couldnt prevent rolling onto the sidewalls. I know I should be considering camber plates to address this issue but I'd like to remain stock for Auto-X. I am planning on switching to Dunlop Star Specs next year, would that make a difference? Considering the tire walls should be stiffer on those.

2. I ran out of fuel during my last session in the afternoon (4th session of 25 min). The dash illuminated the check engine light with half solid color (I think this is the limp mode, my oil temp was also at 130 deg C or 266 deg F) and I could get any power or rev past 3k. It freaked me out so I drove off the track and straight to the gas station. I end up putting 53.1L into a 54L tank. I was also hearing metal ticking/screeching noise from the car (god i really hope that's just the brakes)

3. The brakes faded big time. I could only get decent braking during the first 2-3 laps of each session before they get spongy. I already have ATE Super Blue fluids. The rotors showed a lot of wear (different color wear: blue/orange/red). Time for new pads? Even new rotors? (the stock pads still have a lot left, i would say 70%?)

4. Today I drove the whole day with DTC on (1 click of the DTC button). It was great as it allowed some drift/spin to the tires and I was able to put power down on the corner exits earlier. It also saved me a few times from spinning as I got on the throttle too early on a few occassions. I usually turn everything off for Auto-X, but I didnt want to risk my brand new car on the track for that extra 1-2 sec per lap.

I tried letting the car cool a bit before I drove home, but the check engine light was still illuminated. Power seems to be restored but it was not pulling nearly as hard as it should be. I would probably say around 70~75%. The loss of low-end torque was significant. I plan to bring it to the dealer to get it checked out. Hopefully nothing went wrong.

But all in all, it was a fu*king awesome day.

PKumarM3 · 10-18-2010, 11:24 PM

its great that you took ur baby on the track

definitely go w/star specs and get a set off dedicated track pads - ss lines - and go with castrol srf - a bit more expensive, but u dont have to change as often.

lavmugen · 10-18-2010, 11:38 PM

anyone experienced the difference between hankook v12 evos and star specs? I'd definitely getting a set next spring. I'll look into better pads as well.

lavmugen · 10-18-2010, 11:56 PM

OH SHIT.... look what i just found out....

this is after today's trackday....

LA-Bimmer · 10-19-2010, 05:16 AM

The heat will cause the 'chunking' you are seeing with the tires. I've run both the hankook V12s and Star Specs on the same car. No comparison for the track....Star Specs hands down. Hankooks are great general street tires for spirited driving, but just did not work well for me on the track. I've used the star specs on my 4000# GT500 as well as the 135. I find that starting about 32-33psi for track sessions works best, 38-40 for autocross. Less roll than the Hankooks. I've never had one chunk.

pixelblue · 10-19-2010, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmugen

3. The brakes faded big time. I could only get decent braking during the first 2-3 laps of each session before they get spongy. I already have ATE Super Blue fluids. The rotors showed a lot of wear (different color wear: blue/orange/red). Time for new pads? Even new rotors? (the stock pads still have a lot left, i would say 70%?)

change pads to track or street/track pads. upgrade brake lines to SS lines and make sure never to use your hand brake after you pull off a track session when parking. also after parking your car from a session let sit for 5 min and then just slightly roll your car so the rotors get to cool down where the pads cover. otherwise you will get warped rotors

DriveHard · 10-19-2010, 09:31 AM

Def. chunking due to overheat...

are the v12's you running your daily driver tires??? as said before I also think the v12's are fine for spirited street, and maybe even auto x, because you dont build up the kind of heat that you would on the track.

I am using Hankook RS3's as my dedicated Track tire, on a set of Elbrus wheels.. square set up ( 225/45/17 ) on 7.5 inch wheels with et42. This gives me the ability to rotate, stay "stock" as i can for auto x, and also during the winter, mount my winter tires on the same wheels. The et42 pushes the wheels out a hair and gives me a wider stance. It also helps the understear in an otherwise stock set up. ( no camber plates, max available camber alignment, oem sways)

Ive done 2 auto x's and 58 Laps at Lime rock, and 50 laps at Pocono North, and although I had high temps in the front, nothing near chunking..

I started tires warm/ cold at 35f / 33r ..in 2 laps they were up to 40f / 38r and no sholder roll, as long as i stayed and kept adjusting down to 40/41f 38/39r after ever session..

the set up cost me 1300.00 at Tire rack, mounted and delivered even with new TPMS sensors.... You may want to lokk into that as with a more dedicated track tire, youll save your equiptment, get better times, and be able to drive home with safe tires...

Good Luck...

p.s. isnt Track Time addictive

lavmugen · 10-19-2010, 04:30 PM

thanks for the input guys!

i probably f-ed the tires up as i was running my auto-x pressure (42 psi / 38 psi cold). But i was getting so much should roll on the front with stock camber i had to beef the pressure up.

i will definitely get a set of either RE-11s or Star Specs to replace these Hankooks, but would it be ok/safe to run the Hankooks for the time being? if so, how much longer can i run them given that i wont be doing anymore track days this year/season. I have had the tires for about 15,000km or 9375 miles. Been through 3 auto-x and 3 track days.

i will probably stick with street pads as i daily drive this car, what do you all recommend in terms of street pad upgrade from stock? HPS, CoolCarbons, Stoptech? Would there be a noticable difference? I'm not looking for MORE stopping power and instead I am just hoping for LESS fade.

pixelblue, i was under the impression and i was told that our e-brake doesnt use the rear pads? and instead it uses a drum-brake-like inside the rear rotors, no?

thanks guys!

pixelblue · 10-19-2010, 06:58 PM

^ hmmm, you may be right. had no idea but I think it's good practice not to use the handbrake after a session anyway. as far as which pads, cool carbons are an upgrade from stock that can be used for track as well. no dust, rotor friendly, no squealing and offer great track performance. I am sure there are better pads for track purpose only but I can't be happier with it's dual street/track performance. have not had any noticeable fade while tracking either

lavmugen · 10-20-2010, 05:13 PM

update:

took the car in today for service to get the CEL looked at. The initial code pulled was for low fuel rail pressure (kinda expected it after running out of fuel on the track). There are also 3 recalls on the vehicle (MY2011, March 2011 build date). Leaving the car there overnight. Got a Yaris to drive for the time being.

I did mention the loss of power and hesitation in throttle response. Hopefully they'll find a fix for that.

I was looking at the Dunlop Star Specs and read that it's more suitable for lighter performance cars (225 has 88W and 255 has 90W load ratings). Would ther 135i be considered as a lighter performance car? Anyone running 225/40/18 and 255/35/18 star specs please chime in. thanks.

pixelblue · 10-20-2010, 09:28 PM

thats a popular setup for most auto-x and trackers. not sure what they mean by lighter performance cars though

mr.foo · 10-24-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmugen

1. Tire walls on the Hankooks are EXTREMELY soft. The fronts were running at almost 50 psi hot and it still couldnt prevent rolling onto the sidewalls. I know I should be considering camber plates to address this issue but I'd like to remain stock for Auto-X. I am planning on switching to Dunlop Star Specs next year, would that make a difference? Considering the tire walls should be stiffer on those.

Sounds like fun. I haven't done a track day but do auto-x regularly. On my 04 WRX I changed to wider tires (235's) and the star specs. It made a huge difference, however it was still easy to roll the sidewall of the front tires even with high PSI. Not until I stiffened up the suspension did that improve noticeably. My take away is that tires make a HUGE difference but they can't be fully utilized w/o a better suspension.

Running in a modified class was definitely worth the change for me. It is still my daily driver so I'm not fully competitive in my class since I haven't maxed out the possibilities for STX. But still, it is a lot more fun to drive for both auto-x and daily driving.

Hope there is nothing too severe with the engine. Happy driving.

LA-Bimmer · 10-24-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmugen

update:

I was looking at the Dunlop Star Specs and read that it's more suitable for lighter performance cars (225 has 88W and 255 has 90W load ratings). Would ther 135i be considered as a lighter performance car? Anyone running 225/40/18 and 255/35/18 star specs please chime in. thanks.

That is the size I have for everyday use. They work real well on the track as well. The 135 is not at all too heavy for these.

135gofast · 10-24-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmugen

1. Tire walls on the Hankooks are EXTREMELY soft. The fronts were running at almost 50 psi hot and it still couldnt prevent rolling onto the sidewalls. I know I should be considering camber plates to address this issue but I'd like to remain stock for Auto-X.

I run Hankook V12s at both auto-x and track with -1.7 camber, vorshlag camber plates maxed out on otherwise stock suspension. There's nothing i can do to stop severe sidewall wear, tire pressure helps not at all. Autox is definitely worse than track, but either case, any tire-chalk i put on is completely gone at the end of the run/session. Stock OEM tires are not nearly as bad.

My hankooks are 245f / 275rear and i don't think they are much faster than the stock oem tires, at least for me in my driving habits. My last track event, i was 1.5 seconds faster, but i was without an insructor for the first time (-200lbs) and had installed an M3 front arb which definitely helped.

I'll be switching tires next year to either RE-11s or straight to Toyo race tires

Hankooks are great on the street. I love how they give easy slip in 1, 2 or 3 easier than even the stock rfts.

lavmugen · 10-24-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135gofast

I run Hankook V12s at both auto-x and track with -1.7 camber, vorshlag camber plates maxed out on otherwise stock suspension. There's nothing i can do to stop severe sidewall wear, tire pressure helps not at all. Autox is definitely worse than track, but either case, any tire-chalk i put on is completely gone at the end of the run/session. Stock OEM tires are not nearly as bad.

My hankooks are 245f / 275rear and i don't think they are much faster than the stock oem tires, at least for me in my driving habits. My last track event, i was 1.5 seconds faster, but i was without an insructor for the first time (-200lbs) and had installed an M3 front arb which definitely helped.

I'll be switching tires next year to either RE-11s or straight to Toyo race tires

Hankooks are great on the street. I love how they give easy slip in 1, 2 or 3 easier than even the stock rfts.

i see you are in the same boat as me, even with the vorshlag plates.

definitely go with some extreme summer performance tires like the RE-11 or the Star Specs and see what kind of difference those will make over the V12s.

lavmugen · 10-24-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA-Bimmer

That is the size I have for everyday use. They work real well on the track as well. The 135 is not at all too heavy for these.

that's perfect! i was a little concerned with the load rating. thanks for the input.

cedavis34 · 10-28-2010, 09:27 PM

One thing I was taught at my first HPDE (with PCA) is my instructor said as soon as you see the checkered flag, do not use your brakes. Coast down to an appropriate speed, then once you get to the pits, 'crawl' back to your parking spot in first or second. You should easily be able to get back without your brakes, because driving in the paddock is encouraged to go as slow as possible. When you need to stop, coast to a stop, or engage reverse and slightly slip to clutch to kill your momentum.

This gives your pads and rotors the best opportunity to cool because they will not remain in contact while cooling down between sessions. If you use your brakes after the session is over, you will not generate the forces to fully retract your pads from the rotors, therefore they'll be in slight contact until the next time you're on track. You can easily tell which cars do this and which do not because when the cars are getting ready for their next session, pulling out on track, you can hear the pads scraping the rotors, which just proves that the pads have been in contact with the rotors the whole time. When you don't touch the brakes at all, when you drive around, there will be absolutely zero sound from your pads / rotors.

Obviously when you driving around after session, your foot should be covering the brake in case you have to stop immediately, but more often than not you can coast everywhere, and slip it in reverse to stop.

cedavis34 · 10-28-2010, 09:34 PM

I guess to be back on topic, I'm also using the V12's for track duty, and they worked pretty well. I didn't get any chunking like you did although I felt like I was pushing the tires about as hard as I could. (Was at Mid-Ohio) I also was on stock brake pads, and although I never experienced significant fade, they were not completely confidence inspiring all the time.

I'll be at Putnam Park this weekend again on the V12's but this time with Cool Carbons. When I was bedding in the cool carbons, it seemed like they like the heat A LOT better than the stock pads. I actually bought the Cool Carbons before Mid-Ohio just in case, but ran on the stocks to see how they'd hold up.

Next year I look forward to upgrading to Star Specs and more track oriented pads, or tracking my S2000 instead.

lavmugen · 10-28-2010, 10:03 PM

the track i was at is a short 1.4 mile (i believe) track with 9 corners. so it is very hard on the brakes. i'd only hit 4th gear for about 2 seconds before i need to start braking for the first turn/corner, which is a 2nd gear turn. very heavy on the brakes. i was pushing the car very hard as i was grouped with some very fast cars. GT3RSs, 997 Turbo, 997 Targa 4S, R35 GT-R, etc. To my pleasant surprise I did pretty good considering I was stock and my only mod was the E93 front sway. But that is at the expense of my poor tires and brake pads. I just went in for service and they measured the front pads to be 10mm and rear 9mm, so about 75% left still in them!?!?

and I do coast back to the paddock. i usually lay something infront of my parking space to stop the car instead of using the brakes. and i'll push the car back a few feet after 5 min or so, so that the same part of the rotor doesnt get covered for an extended period of time.

cedavis34 · 11-01-2010, 06:19 PM

So I had a weekend at Putnam Park, and my tires ended up exactly as pictured. I will try to take pictures tomorrow and post them up. I was told that Putnam is a very abrasive track, and temperatures were VERY cold, so the end result was after the second run, my left front tire looked like that, and I had 6 more runs to go.

I ended up switching my front tires left to right and running them 'backwards'. By being a little more aware of the tire situation, I was able to preserve the treads for the rest of the weekend. I also didn't notice any degradation in performance from the tires going backwards. I believe, as do many others, that the direction pretty much is there for wet performance.

I just need my street driving to finish off the tires next year so I can get some Star Specs!

lavmugen · 11-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedavis34

So I had a weekend at Putnam Park, and my tires ended up exactly as pictured. I will try to take pictures tomorrow and post them up. I was told that Putnam is a very abrasive track, and temperatures were VERY cold, so the end result was after the second run, my left front tire looked like that, and I had 6 more runs to go.

I ended up switching my front tires left to right and running them 'backwards'. By being a little more aware of the tire situation, I was able to preserve the treads for the rest of the weekend. I also didn't notice any degradation in performance from the tires going backwards. I believe, as do many others, that the direction pretty much is there for wet performance.

I just need my street driving to finish off the tires next year so I can get some Star Specs!

what tires are you running? i thought about rotating them but the wear of the both front tires both on the outside edge. the car is crying for more front negative camber. i might do the alignment pin mod, as it appears it's ok to take out the alignment pin and still run D-stock.

Anyone done alignment pin mod and is there any potential problems that we could run into? from my understanding the mod is not reversible.

i got a set of brand new Potenza RE-01R coming, will mount them before the first track day next season!

Lubo · 11-02-2010, 08:16 AM

I absolutely love my Star Spec. They lasted about 8k miles with 5 HPDE and about 8 Auto-X sessions. Here is the damage after the last event.

Next year I am staying with Start Specs as well. I'll be running square set up with 265/40/17 all around and will finally add camber plate to preserve the tire a bit more. As for the pads I am running EBC yellowstuff with Motul RBF600 and I haven't experienced brake fade yet... I am sure that will change with more practice next season.

10-18-2010, 11:17 PM	#1
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	Track Days are addictive (and potentially expensive) So I did my 3rd and perhaps the final trackday of the season/year today at Mission Raceways in Mission, BC. It was about 11 deg celsius (52 deg F). I have a stock 2011 N55 135i with E93 M3 front sway and Hankook V12 Evos with f 42psi/r 38psi. Somehow I got put into the advanced group today (I only had 2 previous trackday experience), so I was running fairly hard all day. Few issues/thoughts: 1. Tire walls on the Hankooks are EXTREMELY soft. The fronts were running at almost 50 psi hot and it still couldnt prevent rolling onto the sidewalls. I know I should be considering camber plates to address this issue but I'd like to remain stock for Auto-X. I am planning on switching to Dunlop Star Specs next year, would that make a difference? Considering the tire walls should be stiffer on those. 2. I ran out of fuel during my last session in the afternoon (4th session of 25 min). The dash illuminated the check engine light with half solid color (I think this is the limp mode, my oil temp was also at 130 deg C or 266 deg F) and I could get any power or rev past 3k. It freaked me out so I drove off the track and straight to the gas station. I end up putting 53.1L into a 54L tank. I was also hearing metal ticking/screeching noise from the car (god i really hope that's just the brakes) 3. The brakes faded big time. I could only get decent braking during the first 2-3 laps of each session before they get spongy. I already have ATE Super Blue fluids. The rotors showed a lot of wear (different color wear: blue/orange/red). Time for new pads? Even new rotors? (the stock pads still have a lot left, i would say 70%?) 4. Today I drove the whole day with DTC on (1 click of the DTC button). It was great as it allowed some drift/spin to the tires and I was able to put power down on the corner exits earlier. It also saved me a few times from spinning as I got on the throttle too early on a few occassions. I usually turn everything off for Auto-X, but I didnt want to risk my brand new car on the track for that extra 1-2 sec per lap. I tried letting the car cool a bit before I drove home, but the check engine light was still illuminated. Power seems to be restored but it was not pulling nearly as hard as it should be. I would probably say around 70~75%. The loss of low-end torque was significant. I plan to bring it to the dealer to get it checked out. Hopefully nothing went wrong. But all in all, it was a fu*king awesome day.
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10-18-2010, 11:24 PM	#2
PKumarM3 Air India 145 Rep 1,834 Posts Drives: 2018 Dodge Durango Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (8)	its great that you took ur baby on the track definitely go w/star specs and get a set off dedicated track pads - ss lines - and go with castrol srf - a bit more expensive, but u dont have to change as often. __________________ PKumarM3
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10-18-2010, 11:38 PM	#3
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	anyone experienced the difference between hankook v12 evos and star specs? I'd definitely getting a set next spring. I'll look into better pads as well.
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10-18-2010, 11:56 PM	#4
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	OH SHIT.... look what i just found out.... this is after today's trackday....
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10-19-2010, 05:16 AM	#5
LA-Bimmer Lieutenant 21 Rep 543 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 335i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Louisiana iTrader: (21)	The heat will cause the 'chunking' you are seeing with the tires. I've run both the hankook V12s and Star Specs on the same car. No comparison for the track....Star Specs hands down. Hankooks are great general street tires for spirited driving, but just did not work well for me on the track. I've used the star specs on my 4000# GT500 as well as the 135. I find that starting about 32-33psi for track sessions works best, 38-40 for autocross. Less roll than the Hankooks. I've never had one chunk.
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10-19-2010, 09:31 AM	#7
DriveHard Colonel 115 Rep 1,998 Posts Drives: X1 and R58 JCW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island iTrader: (0)	Def. chunking due to overheat... are the v12's you running your daily driver tires??? as said before I also think the v12's are fine for spirited street, and maybe even auto x, because you dont build up the kind of heat that you would on the track. I am using Hankook RS3's as my dedicated Track tire, on a set of Elbrus wheels.. square set up ( 225/45/17 ) on 7.5 inch wheels with et42. This gives me the ability to rotate, stay "stock" as i can for auto x, and also during the winter, mount my winter tires on the same wheels. The et42 pushes the wheels out a hair and gives me a wider stance. It also helps the understear in an otherwise stock set up. ( no camber plates, max available camber alignment, oem sways) Ive done 2 auto x's and 58 Laps at Lime rock, and 50 laps at Pocono North, and although I had high temps in the front, nothing near chunking.. I started tires warm/ cold at 35f / 33r ..in 2 laps they were up to 40f / 38r and no sholder roll, as long as i stayed and kept adjusting down to 40/41f 38/39r after ever session.. the set up cost me 1300.00 at Tire rack, mounted and delivered even with new TPMS sensors.... You may want to lokk into that as with a more dedicated track tire, youll save your equiptment, get better times, and be able to drive home with safe tires... Good Luck... p.s. isnt Track Time addictive __________________ X1, R58 JCW, M2 in my future if planets align
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10-19-2010, 04:30 PM	#8
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	thanks for the input guys! i probably f-ed the tires up as i was running my auto-x pressure (42 psi / 38 psi cold). But i was getting so much should roll on the front with stock camber i had to beef the pressure up. i will definitely get a set of either RE-11s or Star Specs to replace these Hankooks, but would it be ok/safe to run the Hankooks for the time being? if so, how much longer can i run them given that i wont be doing anymore track days this year/season. I have had the tires for about 15,000km or 9375 miles. Been through 3 auto-x and 3 track days. i will probably stick with street pads as i daily drive this car, what do you all recommend in terms of street pad upgrade from stock? HPS, CoolCarbons, Stoptech? Would there be a noticable difference? I'm not looking for MORE stopping power and instead I am just hoping for LESS fade. pixelblue, i was under the impression and i was told that our e-brake doesnt use the rear pads? and instead it uses a drum-brake-like inside the rear rotors, no? thanks guys!
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10-19-2010, 06:58 PM	#9
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	^ hmmm, you may be right. had no idea but I think it's good practice not to use the handbrake after a session anyway. as far as which pads, cool carbons are an upgrade from stock that can be used for track as well. no dust, rotor friendly, no squealing and offer great track performance. I am sure there are better pads for track purpose only but I can't be happier with it's dual street/track performance. have not had any noticeable fade while tracking either __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces" Last edited by pixelblue; 10-19-2010 at 07:09 PM..
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10-20-2010, 05:13 PM	#10
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	update: took the car in today for service to get the CEL looked at. The initial code pulled was for low fuel rail pressure (kinda expected it after running out of fuel on the track). There are also 3 recalls on the vehicle (MY2011, March 2011 build date). Leaving the car there overnight. Got a Yaris to drive for the time being. I did mention the loss of power and hesitation in throttle response. Hopefully they'll find a fix for that. I was looking at the Dunlop Star Specs and read that it's more suitable for lighter performance cars (225 has 88W and 255 has 90W load ratings). Would ther 135i be considered as a lighter performance car? Anyone running 225/40/18 and 255/35/18 star specs please chime in. thanks.
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10-20-2010, 09:28 PM	#11
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	thats a popular setup for most auto-x and trackers. not sure what they mean by lighter performance cars though __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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10-28-2010, 09:27 PM	#17
cedavis34 Private 2 Rep 54 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	One thing I was taught at my first HPDE (with PCA) is my instructor said as soon as you see the checkered flag, do not use your brakes. Coast down to an appropriate speed, then once you get to the pits, 'crawl' back to your parking spot in first or second. You should easily be able to get back without your brakes, because driving in the paddock is encouraged to go as slow as possible. When you need to stop, coast to a stop, or engage reverse and slightly slip to clutch to kill your momentum. This gives your pads and rotors the best opportunity to cool because they will not remain in contact while cooling down between sessions. If you use your brakes after the session is over, you will not generate the forces to fully retract your pads from the rotors, therefore they'll be in slight contact until the next time you're on track. You can easily tell which cars do this and which do not because when the cars are getting ready for their next session, pulling out on track, you can hear the pads scraping the rotors, which just proves that the pads have been in contact with the rotors the whole time. When you don't touch the brakes at all, when you drive around, there will be absolutely zero sound from your pads / rotors. Obviously when you driving around after session, your foot should be covering the brake in case you have to stop immediately, but more often than not you can coast everywhere, and slip it in reverse to stop.
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10-28-2010, 09:34 PM	#18
cedavis34 Private 2 Rep 54 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	I guess to be back on topic, I'm also using the V12's for track duty, and they worked pretty well. I didn't get any chunking like you did although I felt like I was pushing the tires about as hard as I could. (Was at Mid-Ohio) I also was on stock brake pads, and although I never experienced significant fade, they were not completely confidence inspiring all the time. I'll be at Putnam Park this weekend again on the V12's but this time with Cool Carbons. When I was bedding in the cool carbons, it seemed like they like the heat A LOT better than the stock pads. I actually bought the Cool Carbons before Mid-Ohio just in case, but ran on the stocks to see how they'd hold up. Next year I look forward to upgrading to Star Specs and more track oriented pads, or tracking my S2000 instead.
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10-28-2010, 10:03 PM	#19
lavmugen Private First Class 18 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2011 Superman 135i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	the track i was at is a short 1.4 mile (i believe) track with 9 corners. so it is very hard on the brakes. i'd only hit 4th gear for about 2 seconds before i need to start braking for the first turn/corner, which is a 2nd gear turn. very heavy on the brakes. i was pushing the car very hard as i was grouped with some very fast cars. GT3RSs, 997 Turbo, 997 Targa 4S, R35 GT-R, etc. To my pleasant surprise I did pretty good considering I was stock and my only mod was the E93 front sway. But that is at the expense of my poor tires and brake pads. I just went in for service and they measured the front pads to be 10mm and rear 9mm, so about 75% left still in them!?!? and I do coast back to the paddock. i usually lay something infront of my parking space to stop the car instead of using the brakes. and i'll push the car back a few feet after 5 min or so, so that the same part of the rotor doesnt get covered for an extended period of time.
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11-01-2010, 06:19 PM	#20
cedavis34 Private 2 Rep 54 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	So I had a weekend at Putnam Park, and my tires ended up exactly as pictured. I will try to take pictures tomorrow and post them up. I was told that Putnam is a very abrasive track, and temperatures were VERY cold, so the end result was after the second run, my left front tire looked like that, and I had 6 more runs to go. I ended up switching my front tires left to right and running them 'backwards'. By being a little more aware of the tire situation, I was able to preserve the treads for the rest of the weekend. I also didn't notice any degradation in performance from the tires going backwards. I believe, as do many others, that the direction pretty much is there for wet performance. I just need my street driving to finish off the tires next year so I can get some Star Specs!
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11-02-2010, 08:16 AM	#22
Lubo Lieutenant 23 Rep 475 Posts Drives: 15 335 iX Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (1)	I absolutely love my Star Spec. They lasted about 8k miles with 5 HPDE and about 8 Auto-X sessions. Here is the damage after the last event. Next year I am staying with Start Specs as well. I'll be running square set up with 265/40/17 all around and will finally add camber plate to preserve the tire a bit more. As for the pads I am running EBC yellowstuff with Motul RBF600 and I haven't experienced brake fade yet... I am sure that will change with more practice next season.
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