Question about bmwp brakes/brakes in general

[kmli5]

Originally Posted by luster

The achilles heel of the Brembo setup appears to be the effect that boiling brake fluid has on the pistons seals and dust boots.

If you do track your car, the only real product that might thwart said damage would be titanium shims. These help to prevent heat transfer from the pads to the pistons and thus not boiling the brake fluid. At least it will ensure the process is slowed down, significantly.

http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main...products_id=92

I have tracked both my 3 series with BBK and 1 series with BBK and neither have shown signs of brake fade, and thus far my rotors are perfect.

Thank you for your input, and it makes perfect sense. Because the BMWP brake doesn't have the advantage of a proper BBK such as thicker and bigger rotor, we have the look into other options to cool the brakes in order for it not to fail during tracking condition.

[Jackel]

Originally Posted by luster

The achilles heel of the Brembo setup appears to be the effect that boiling brake fluid has on the pistons seals and dust boots.

If you do track your car, the only real product that might thwart said damage would be titanium shims. These help to prevent heat transfer from the pads to the pistons and thus not boiling the brake fluid. At least it will ensure the process is slowed down, significantly.

http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main...products_id=92

I have tracked both my 3 series with BBK and 1 series with BBK and neither have shown signs of brake fade, and thus far my rotors are perfect.

Just to give you an informed response,
Boiling brake fluid will not be causing the pistons to deform, and the boots to perish like in the photos on the last page, boiling fluid will give you issues like spongy pedal and excessive pedal travel, the cause of the damage you are seeing is the use of incorrect rotor/pad selection for the application.

over heating the pistons this may be caused by the pad, I can only assume they were stock which are absolute rubbish - if your going to use the 135 brembo factory caliper don't use stock pads upgrade to the best pads you can afford, but just be mindful that a full race compound pad will have very poor braking when cold, but when on the track will normally result in lower pad temps then your stock ones, if your noticing your brakes fading away 2-3 laps into a track day that is your pad being so hot it can no long bite the rotor.
This will kill your callipers-the internal seals as well, true race brembo callipers do not run the outer seal and most also use ceramic pistons to help stop the heat transfer into the calliper and the brake fluid. But these are not for most 135 owners, as the debris on the road would destroy the pistons and bore of the calliper over time.

The 135, even the performance rotors are a Pillar rotor in design, this is great for a road car but not for the track, the biggest cooling advantage of most after-market brake kits is the fact they use curved vane rotors these disapate heat much more efficiently then the pillar style rotor, which in turn radiates less heat into the pad and the caliper, so if you option up to a good quality curved vane rotor, you will be able to run a lower temp pad giving you a better overall range of braking performance for street- track day car, of coarse if your pushing your car to the limit on track days you would want to opt for a full race pad.

just my opinion, 135 guys on a budget or doing smart efficient mods, buy some good rotors and pads, and get some DOT 5.1 fluid and enjoy your great factory brakes until you find that rotors and pads are not giving you the desired braking you require. Then get some serious brakes whatever the brand may be.

I'am not on the pay roll

[luster]

Wow, super informative post. Thanks!

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by Jackel

Just to give you an informed response,
Boiling brake fluid will not be causing the pistons to deform, and the boots to perish like in the photos on the last page, boiling fluid will give you issues like spongy pedal and excessive pedal travel, the cause of the damage you are seeing is the use of incorrect rotor/pad selection for the application.

over heating the pistons this may be caused by the pad, I can only assume they were stock which are absolute rubbish - if your going to use the 135 brembo factory caliper don't use stock pads upgrade to the best pads you can afford, but just be mindful that a full race compound pad will have very poor braking when cold, but when on the track will normally result in lower pad temps then your stock ones, if your noticing your brakes fading away 2-3 laps into a track day that is your pad being so hot it can no long bite the rotor.
This will kill your callipers-the internal seals as well, true race brembo callipers do not run the outer seal and most also use ceramic pistons to help stop the heat transfer into the calliper and the brake fluid. But these are not for most 135 owners, as the debris on the road would destroy the pistons and bore of the calliper over time.

The 135, even the performance rotors are a Pillar rotor in design, this is great for a road car but not for the track, the biggest cooling advantage of most after-market brake kits is the fact they use curved vane rotors these disapate heat much more efficiently then the pillar style rotor, which in turn radiates less heat into the pad and the caliper, so if you option up to a good quality curved vane rotor, you will be able to run a lower temp pad giving you a better overall range of braking performance for street- track day car, of coarse if your pushing your car to the limit on track days you would want to opt for a full race pad.

just my opinion, 135 guys on a budget or doing smart efficient mods, buy some good rotors and pads, and get some DOT 5.1 fluid and enjoy your great factory brakes until you find that rotors and pads are not giving you the desired braking you require. Then get some serious brakes whatever the brand may be.

I'am not on the pay roll

I was reading a thread on the track section on e90post about added ventilation, when you say curved vane rotors, do these scoop the air from the edge to the middle or the middle to the edge? The reason I ask is where/how to better ventilate the rotor

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by pavo335

I was reading a thread on the track section on e90post about added ventilation, when you say curved vane rotors, do these scoop the air from the edge to the middle or the middle to the edge? The reason I ask is where/how to better ventilate the rotor

With the centrifugal force of a spinning rotor I doubt you could force much air form the outer to the middle. More likely the other way. Not my field of expertise though.

As an average driver I've been to numerous track days in my 135 and have yet to experience any fade. I have cracked the performance front discs however & know the callipers are susceptible to piston issues under very hard use. There are several threads about this in the main forum. Not many of us are going to push our cars hard enough to have this issue though. The 130 is also significantly lighter than the 135 too, so even less likely.