At wit's end - sloppy steering

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by lupa

Do alignment shops loosen those nuts for alignments?

Yes. Those bolts are loosened to adjust camber. The factory calls for the bolts to be torqued to 25ft/lbs. The link below will come in handy if you find other loose suspension bolts.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1342813525

[lupa]

Thank you.

I had it aligned at ntb (yes, again I know, but convenient) after the shocks were installed. It would have been them that didn't tighten the front right well enough.

Remember that when I finally looked at it in the daylight, I had positive and negative camber on the fronts...maybe that would explain the terrible road response and steering.

I did eyeball the camber to fix the front right yesterday, and then tightened it down, but THAT could be the handling fix. Maybe the tower wasnt shifting actively, but it had shifted.

Last, the tires are Michelin pilot sport a/s 3, 215/40z r18 fronts, 245/35z r18 backs.

[gap]

Glad you got it sorted out. Might want to check out this recent thread on engine bay cleaning...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1175789

[lupa]

....it's dirty as hell in there.

5 years of running. I swear I'll clean the ol girl out.


The car rides like new, fellas. New shocks clean up the suspension, fixed strut plate/bolts and camber give a solid steering.

I've drivrn it over highway, back roads, even my little side street. ..had that BMW feel again. Finally.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice. It all put me on the right track.

[dtla1]

Good to hear everything is back to normal. Enjoy.

[lupa]

Thread bump!

Evidently my friends at NTB did a bangup job on my last alignment.

Rear end of the car was getting squirrely over time, but I attributed that to the Blizzaks I put on for the winter and thought nothing of it...but it kept getting worse, so I finally took a closer look two weeks ago.

The eccentric bolt (don't know the name) that is used for the camber adjustment, back right, was loose. It wasn't fully loose as in the nut fell off, but I was able to turn it with a ratchet, not having loosened its nut on the other side (facing the rear of the car).

I actually looked at the car, and the rear right camber was too negative. Since I'm only taking it to work and back of late (leaving from the garage, driving home at night), I really hadn't looked that closely before on a flat surface, taking measurements. I used a level across the flat face of the wheel, and while I don't know the degrees, it was a lot more than the left.

So...thanks to posts on this forum, I endeavored to fix the camber, and therefore the toe, on my own. Mostly without the proper tools.

I can say that eventually I got it right, but the rear right tire was pretty well shot on the inside before I figured out what was going on. I'll ride them out this winter and then have to replace.

I did find that the two alignment bolts, both camber and toe, are at their max
adjustment. By that I mean, they are both at or very near the point that rotating them any farther starts to reverse the adjustment back to positive camber and toe in.

So finally, the question for the smart guys here -- how badly is my suspension bent if I can't adjust the camber to positive at all, and toe all the way adjusted out now equals just slightly in? What components am I looking at replacing?

Or...is there a way to adjust the rear shocks for camber like you can for the front struts? Does it even work like that?


All help is appreciated! Also, don't go to NTB.

[froop]

Originally Posted by lupa

Thread bump!

Evidently my friends at NTB did a bangup job on my last alignment.

Rear end of the car was getting squirrely over time, but I attributed that to the Blizzaks I put on for the winter and thought nothing of it...but it kept getting worse, so I finally took a closer look two weeks ago.

The eccentric bolt (don't know the name) that is used for the camber adjustment, back right, was loose. It wasn't fully loose as in the nut fell off, but I was able to turn it with a ratchet, not having loosened its nut on the other side (facing the rear of the car).

I actually looked at the car, and the rear right camber was too negative. Since I'm only taking it to work and back of late (leaving from the garage, driving home at night), I really hadn't looked that closely before on a flat surface, taking measurements. I used a level across the flat face of the wheel, and while I don't know the degrees, it was a lot more than the left.

So...thanks to posts on this forum, I endeavored to fix the camber, and therefore the toe, on my own. Mostly without the proper tools.

I can say that eventually I got it right, but the rear right tire was pretty well shot on the inside before I figured out what was going on. I'll ride them out this winter and then have to replace.

I did find that the two alignment bolts, both camber and toe, are at their max
adjustment. By that I mean, they are both at or very near the point that rotating them any farther starts to reverse the adjustment back to positive camber and toe in.

So finally, the question for the smart guys here -- how badly is my suspension bent if I can't adjust the camber to positive at all, and toe all the way adjusted out now equals just slightly in? What components am I looking at replacing?

Or...is there a way to adjust the rear shocks for camber like you can for the front struts? Does it even work like that?


All help is appreciated! Also, don't go to NTB.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your post correctly but I think you might have a couple things mixed up. With the eccentric bolt maxed (in it's most lengthened mounting position), you're going to be at maximum negative camber and maximum toe in for the adjustment. I'm also pretty sure it's not possible to actually get positive rear camber with the stock setup so I doubt anything is bent.

Either way, if you can't get the correct suspension alignment settings, it could be anything from a worn bushing to bent subframe/wheel carrier/suspension arm. If you really do have an issue, it's more likely to be a worn bushing than anything else.

[lupa]

Originally Posted by froop

I'm not sure if I'm reading your post correctly but I think you might have a couple things mixed up. With the eccentric bolt maxed (in it's most lengthened mounting position), you're going to be at maximum negative camber and maximum toe in for the adjustment. I'm also pretty sure it's not possible to actually get positive rear camber with the stock setup so I doubt anything is bent.

Either way, if you can't get the correct suspension alignment settings, it could be anything from a worn bushing to bent subframe/wheel carrier/suspension arm. If you really do have an issue, it's more likely to be a worn bushing than anything else.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I mis-wrote that after re-read.

I mean that I've adjusted it all the way around, and still have more negative on the back right than on the left. It is leaning in more, and I can't get it upright any further.

Same with the toe...can't get it toe out (not that I'd want to) but it is maxed as well, which led me to believe something was bent.

If worn bushings can cause this, how does one check that?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by lupa

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I mis-wrote that after re-read.

I mean that I've adjusted it all the way around, and still have more negative on the back right than on the left. It is leaning in more, and I can't get it upright any further.

Same with the toe...can't get it toe out (not that I'd want to) but it is maxed as well, which led me to believe something was bent.

If worn bushings can cause this, how does one check that?

May want to try a different alignment rack. I had the same issue, could not adjust the toe on the left rear far enough in to get it within "spec", and I thought I had a bent subframe.

Luckily, a month later we got a new alignment machine (OE BMW fuck ya!) and checked the alignment again, and it was WAAAAY the fuck off. I was easily able to get the rear within spec, and all the adjusters were now around the middle of the adjustment.

[froop]

Originally Posted by lupa

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I mis-wrote that after re-read.

I mean that I've adjusted it all the way around, and still have more negative on the back right than on the left. It is leaning in more, and I can't get it upright any further.

Same with the toe...can't get it toe out (not that I'd want to) but it is maxed as well, which led me to believe something was bent.

If worn bushings can cause this, how does one check that?

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

May want to try a different alignment rack. I had the same issue, could not adjust the toe on the left rear far enough in to get it within "spec", and I thought I had a bent subframe.

Luckily, a month later we got a new alignment machine (OE BMW fuck ya!) and checked the alignment again, and it was WAAAAY the fuck off. I was easily able to get the rear within spec, and all the adjusters were now around the middle of the adjustment.

I have the same issue. I have significantly less negative camber on the right side front and right side left with camber plates and eccentric bolts maxed out. I have adjustable RE toe arms so toe is fine.

Like MightyMouseTech says, I'm going to try and get it realigned at a better shop and get them to check the suspension if it's still not lining up properly. You could visually inspect the bushings or pull on the arms or use a pry bar lightly and check for play and compare one side to the other. Or get a suspension specialist to check it out.