Discuss: Will the lighter F80/F82 M3 with I-6 tempt you away?

[LeMansM5]

If not the new M3/M4, the new M2 will definitely be tempting.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by JimD

450hp does seem like it will need to be bigger than 3 liters. Scaling up the n20 would only be 360hp. But I would hope they do the M3 motor a little differently where it won't tail off above 5,000 rpm. If it pulls linearly to redline, you might get to 400hp. But to get 450, 3.3l or 3.5l seems indicated.

I don't like the idea of turbos and haven't owned one yet. But I really like the idea of higher gas mileage and I also like the torque of the BMW turbo. So unless I just want to drive what I have forever, it seems like only a question of when I buy a turbo motor.

Stated another way, I think I'd rather have a turbo I-6 with ~5mpg more gas mileage (my guess) than a V8. But the e92 V8 is nice. When you wind it up over 5000rpm it pulls strong and sounds great.

Jim

German tuning company Tuningwerk claims 500 ps for their tuned 1M which is with the stock small turbos so why not 450 with factory's further tuning? It can be even more with bigger turbos.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

German tuning company Tuningwerk claims 500 ps for their tuned 1M which is with the stock small turbos so why not 450 with factory's further tuning? It can be even more with bigger turbos.

I feel like 500 hp is possible with factory turbos but I would not want to run that kind of power with them. The power will likely taper off really early and god knows the stress that may cause. I would rather have a conservative 420 which I think it very attainable with a mild tune.

I would bet the engine will be around 3.5 liters. M3 purists don't care much about peak power. While peak HP is nice, if it dies at ~5500 RPMs people are going to be pissed. BMW will find some way to make these puppys perform in the top range with a higher red line than our N54s.

That is what I am excited for. If they can make a car with nice low-end power, like the 1M that retains some of the high-revving personality that is the M3, we will have an amazing car on our hands. I think BMW is capable. If they do that, the 1M might be on the outs. But I really don't think I need 450 hp, or 4-doors, or all that tech they will twist my arm to pay for. I would honestly entertain picking up a e90 m3 as a second car with the s65 for half the price. That engine is awesome, and it is one of the last high-revving NA engines BMW will ever produce.

[RaptorKTM]

The idea for me is not an issue since, I would probably wait till a few years into the new m3 production anyways. They always seem to have the better options towards the end. Also there will be more of an aftermarket presence on it. I think keep the 1 M drive it and when the 1 M is ready to move on the market on them will have leveled and possibly be even as agressive as it is now. I really believe the 1 M will hold better value over time since as of now people still think they can get one at a dealer. Id hold off drive it and forget about the m3 for now.

[ozinaldo]

If Opel/GM is able to launch a 2.0 liter 280 ps/400 nm 4 banger turbo engine for the new hot hatch Astra OPC I am totally sure that BMW can do the same for the N54 by further tuning and developing this engine and take it to proportional 420 ps/600 nm level, or more. I am sure that they are more than capable of doing it already without creating an unreliable engine. However, it would be nicer if they do this with a new turbo engine which may or not have more displacement. But I would expect a minimum 450 ps and 600-650 nm from a newly developed (by M) 3.5 liter twin turbo engine. Fiat Group's Alfa Romeo is also coming with a close to 300 ps 1.7 liter 4 banger for the next 4C so why not BMW up his game?

The trick is to keep a bit of energy at the top of the power band and hit the rev limiter harder next time, that and better throttle response in the default non-M mode is all that is missing from our 1M engine.

[PunjabiM3]

No interest in the new M3 for me. I like the 1M due to it's rarity and the fact that it will hold its value strongly. New M3 in a matter of a few years after release can be had for probably 1/3 less than new. At that point MAYBE I would consider it IF it is that much more fun than the 1M. But my plan is to keep the 1M until I can get a used R8 V10 or an Aston V12 Vantage. And if I never get there, just keep the 1M lol!

[Artemis]

So far not as evocative and intriguing for me as when I first saw pictures of the 1M. Got to see the final result to make a sound personal judgment.

I know that it all comes down to personal taste ("you'll get used to the new look over time"), but personally not digging the 'Angry Birds' headlights styling gimmick of the new 3er.



Either they leave the headlights styling gimmick out for the forthcoming M3 or they redesign it more appropriately like in the render pictured below (makes me somehow think of Merc).



In late 2013 / early 2014, Porsche hopes to score big time with the Porsche Macan Turbo: baby SUV (crossover) with new 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged V6 engine that produces 370 horsepower and 400 lb/ft of torque. "Totally different concept", I hear you thinking, and you're right, but also targeting BMW customers who fancy a spacious - but not too big - family car with quite some oomph. New contender, albeit neither fish nor flesh for me.
(http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...-blasts-370bhp)

I do hope to keep my 1M safe from harm and for a long time.

[Dee Pee]

I would probably test drive it, but my preference has always been for coupes and two-seaters. It's fun to speculate on what is coming up next from the M-division and the 1M is definitely the amuse-bouche of an entire line of turbo-charged beasts that will be coming out.

I find that I am more drawn to the upcoming Elise, but if BMW can somehow keep the bloat down on the M2 or even put together a lightweight M-Roadster, I would strongly consider those options in a few years.

[HERR FSTIR]

I find this question odd since the whole concept of the 1M is to capture the essence of what the M3 used to be. The qualities which make the 1M such a wonderful little brute are quite divergent from what the M3 has become, and will further evolve into with the next iteration. The next M3 may be modestly lighter with an improved power to weight ratio, but it will still be relatively large and offer a refined and somewhat isolated driving experience as compared to the more raw and visceral feel of the 1M. Unfortunately, I suspect the M2 will follow this trend as well, and we are fortunate to have obtained what will most likely be the purest form of the smallest M car.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by HERR FSTIR

I find this question odd since the whole concept of the 1M is to capture the essence of what the M3 used to be. The qualities which make the 1M such a wonderful little brute are quite divergent from what the M3 has become, and will further evolve into with the next iteration. The next M3 may be modestly lighter with an improved power to weight ratio, but it will still be relatively large and offer a refined and somewhat isolated driving experience as compared to the more raw and visceral feel of the 1M. Unfortunately, I suspect the M2 will follow this trend as well, and we are fortunate to have obtained what will most likely be the purest form of the smallest M car.

Well, the 1M is proof that there is still a group at M Gmbh who remember what the M3 used to be. The runaway success of the 1M and the continuing accolades for a rawer, livelier interpretation of the modern M car could and should trickle down to the F80/82.

[Em/1]

Not tempted at all; I love the fact that the car is inherently a blast to drive (approaching my 2007 GT3 and exceeding my E90 M3), but unfussy (no worries about minute road irregularities,) shares parts with 2 very common products, but is rarer than Ferrari F430/458 and gets nothing but thumbs up from ordinary folks as well as car guys. Unless the electronics drive me nuts, you'll have to pry me out of this one!

[OrangeCrush]

All I ask for is a lighter car and wide ass obnoxious fender flares. So basically it needs to be a 450hp 1M!

[LeMansM5]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

So basically it needs to be a 450hp 1M!

You can get that with current 1M by spending some money on it.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by LeMansM5

You can get that with current 1M by spending some money on it.

I know...but I don't have the balls.yet. It would be much easier if it wasn't a limited car.

[///M1]

I personally wouldn't be tempted. Perhaps an addition to the stable, but not a replacement to the 1///M, just no way.

As far as an addition to the fleet, it would likely be a tossup between a manual F10 M5 and the new M3, but as of now heavily leaning towards the former.

[sparoz]

Not a replacement for me as such, but will be considered as a replacement with DD duty in a couple of years time.

I will still be potentially looking at the F10M instead. I am getting old - need something nice and comfortable as well .

[T1T2GRE]

Originally Posted by Artemis

So far not as evocative and intriguing for me as when I first saw pictures of the 1M. Got to see the final result to make a sound personal judgment.

I know that it all comes down to personal taste ("you'll get used to the new look over time"), but personally not digging the 'Angry Birds' headlights styling gimmick of the new 3er.

Either they leave the headlights styling gimmick out for the forthcoming M3 or they redesign it more appropriately like in the render pictured below (makes me somehow think of Merc).

I do hope to keep my 1M safe from harm and for a long time.

+1. I feel like I am the minority in that I don't really dig the new F cars. They've had rather poor rhinoplasty. To me, it seems like all of the BMW products are growing in length, weight, etc. Honestly, I have no desire for an M3. It seems like all of the series have simply grown to the next level i.e. 3 series almost as large as an old 5er, current gen M3 is ginormous like an old 6er.

I suppose I am biased because I am a devout E30 lover, and I think that's where the roots are: nimble, decent (but not uncontrollable) power, relatively light. The 1M appeals to me because it's a throwback to what M is really about (I know I know...it's not NA and it's forced induction) in my eyes.

[Romo]

Not tempted at the moment;

Spypics look as a big and (too) streched car, elegant (as GT) yes , but brutal stance no.

F30 doesn`t do it for me, I realy don`t like the front, the headlights look realy weird IMHO

I`m with Artemis on this one.......

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by Romo

Not tempted at the moment;

Spypics look as a big and (too) streched car, elegant (as GT) yes , but brutal stance no.

F30 doesn`t do it for me, I realy don`t like the front, the headlights look realy weird IMHO

I`m with Artemis on this one.......

Same here. +2 with you guys...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

All I ask for is a lighter car and wide ass obnoxious fender flares. So basically it needs to be a 450hp 1M!

Reality check: don't you consider 340hp, 500Nm and ± 4.7sec for 0-62mph pretty decent motoring firepower for an IRL reliable daily driver car with four seats, sufficient storage space and hi-end modern technology (including safety nannies standing guard) ?

Actually, we're a pretty spoilt generation. Re the rat race of car-manufacturers (more hp, more torque, bigger, bolder, etc.): if we're honest we all know that, at some point, serious power unleashed on the rear wheels IRL conditions simply becomes too hot/hard to handle for many of us. Don't ask me to go winter drifting like André (AdVevo) because I'm bound to crash. Lack of superb driving skills, talent and guts. Driving courses help to improve skills, but it remains hard to improve talent.

The BMW M badge and bonanza of safety gizmos gives us the false cocooning impression of utmost safety - the idea of machine, metal, crumple zones, airbags and electronics correcting virtually all our pilot errors and keeping our physical integrity safe from harm. Though, simply hit your head against a tree or a wall merely at walking speed and you experience ex propriis sensibus what energy output and Newton's laws of motion are all about. Now what about "meeting" the same tree or wall at, say, 100mph: ± 9.8s to reach the speed from stationary and sometimes unfortunately only ± 1s to decelerate to 0mph.

I guess that for some of us it already takes some effort to get the significant other behind the wheel of the pocket-rocket 1M ("more [power] is less [driving confidence]" instead of "less is more").

For some enthusiasts it will be never enough, the yearning for even more impressive figures. We got to respect that. However, speaking for myself, the 1M is a fine motoring marvel striking the right balance for me in terms of power, comfort, looks, practicality and fitness for purpose. Driving joy ? It delivers. Future trade-up ? Rebus sic stantibus, only for the next best thing around.

Okay, now getting off my soapbox.

[hybris4u]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Reality check: don't you consider 340hp, 500Nm and ± 4.7sec for 0-62mph pretty decent motoring firepower for an IRL reliable daily driver car with four seats, sufficient storage space and hi-end modern technology (including safety nannies standing guard) ?

Actually, we're a pretty spoilt generation. Re the rat race of car-manufacturers (more hp, more torque, bigger, bolder, etc.): if we're honest we all know that, at some point, serious power unleashed on the rear wheels IRL conditions simply becomes too hot/hard to handle for many of us. Don't ask me to go winter drifting like André (AdVevo) because I'm bound to crash. Lack of superb driving skills, talent and guts. Driving courses help to improve skills, but it remains hard to improve talent.

The BMW M badge and bonanza of safety gizmos gives us the false cocooning impression of utmost safety - the idea of machine, metal, crumple zones, airbags and electronics correcting virtually all our pilot errors and keeping our physical integrity safe from harm. Though, simply hit your head against a tree or a wall merely at walking speed and you experience ex propriis sensibus what energy output and Newton's laws of motion are all about. Now what about "meeting" the same tree or wall at, say, 100mph: ± 9.8s to reach the speed from stationary and sometimes unfortunately only ± 1s to decelerate to 0mph.

I guess that for some of us it already takes some effort to get the significant other behind the wheel of the pocket-rocket 1M ("more [power] is less [driving confidence]" instead of "less is more").

For some enthusiasts it will be never enough, the yearning for even more impressive figures. We got to respect that. However, speaking for myself, the 1M is a fine motoring marvel striking the right balance for me in terms of power, comfort, looks, practicality and fitness for purpose. Driving joy ? It delivers. Future trade-up ? Rebus sic stantibus, only for the next best thing around.

Okay, now getting off my soapbox.

Agree! Just go into DSC OFF mode and you are in the danger zone directly. Driving the 1M hard in DSC OFF need so talent or the car will be one of those pictured in different crash positions with some excuse "bla bla..." ;-)

[hybris4u]

I was thinking what my next BMW would be. It will probably be something like the BMW i8 for replacing the 1M. Have no clue what the production car will be like. But sounds like a high performing sports car with excellent mileage. Will it be anything like the 1M? hard to say but it seems to have a twin turbo combustion engine combined with electric. Can fun, joy, performance and great mileage be combined for real? Probably. Time will tell...

For the X5 Im very interested in what the next X5 will be like.