Just did my HPDE! Thoughts and Impressions

[lavmugen]

I just did my first HPDE at River's Edge Road Course in Mission, BC. Had the car for almost 4 months now. Around 10,000km or 6300 miles. My car is stock except for E93 M3 front sway and 225/255 Hankook Ventus V12 Evos.

Before the track day I was worried about the following:

1. I am using German Castrol 0w30 and was told it is too thin for track. Oil temp would be too high, might even trigger limp mode. Thought about using the Castrol TWS 10w60 (for M cars) for track, end up just putting in fresh GC 0w30 again.

2. Stock brake fluid boiling I might lose braking ability and kill myself. Changed to ATE Super Blue fluid 1 week earlier. I did not buy/change pads and took my chance with stock pads.

3. Understeer. Even with the E93 M3 bar I had A LOT of understeer during an autox event about 1 month ago. Did not do the camber pin mod. Instead I beef-ed up my front tire pressure to 42 psi cold. (40 psi rear).

Our Novice/First-Timer group consist of the following cars:
VW MKIV GTI
Mazda FD RX7
Porsche 997 C2S
Porsche 996 TT
Subaru STI
Subaru Legacy GT
BMW M5
Nissan R35 GTR
Honda S2000 turbo-ed x 2
Cadillac CTS-V

I would say my classmates have pretty nice cars.


It was a sunny day (28 C or 83 F). Perfect for the track. The track is a short 1.4 mile race track and had 9 corners. So thus pretty tough on the brakes. We did 4x30 min sessions. I tried to have instructors with me as much as I can, and try to learn as much as I can.

My overall impressions:
1. the 135i has A LOT of understeer. The soft tirewall on the V12s doesn't help much even at 42 psi cold (48 psi hot). There were still a lot of wear fairly close to the sidewalls. I did manage to melt/shred the tire compound a little bit. They were very hot. (camber plates and/or coilovers, but really I'd rather spend that money on more HPDE/track days and improve my driving)

2. brake fade. the pedal did get a little tiny bit spongy after 3 sessions, but I attribute the loss of bite to the stock brake pads. (Given the amount of track time I expect to do, I probably would stick with the stock pads for now)

3. stock N55 has plenty of power to get around this short track. No problem keep up with the cars in my run group on the straights with the exception of the GTR and the 996 TT. But almost all of them had better cornering capabilities. I had to hit my spots and apexes perfectly for me to keep up.

4. Oil temp stayed low surprisely. Never saw anything over 125 C / 257 F and most of the time under 120 C / 248 F. (Good, so I can put off buying a 2nd/large oil cooler. For now.)

Still A LOT of learn and to improve on my skills. I kept both the DTC and DSC "ON" for the whole day, did not want to risk spinning and running into concrete walls. Maybe until I improve my driving more.

Plan to go back and do another one within 1 month.

[Tochenzo]

Congrats on your first HPDE! I am waiting patiently for my first HPDE as well...waiting on finally pulling the trigger on Hankook Ventus Evo's as well to replace the RFT's. I've also got two liters of ATE Type 200 Brake Fluid waiting to go in as well. Hopefully by October I'll be able to share my first DE experience.

[aisthetes]

Sounds like you're off to a great start, and beginning conservatively is the smart way to go about it.

I think you'll find that once you get a higher comfort level with your car, you'll see that you'll be able to significantly increase your ability to keep up with the other cars in corners just by turning off all traction control devices, without doing any other mods. They're extremely limiting in allowing you to put power down out of turns when in a high performance environment, so you loose apex and corner exit speed. The next step would be getting camber on the front wheels to give you the bite you're lacking, and it goes on from there.

Perhaps try taking DTC off for the next event or two, and if you're comfortable, go to the next step of removing traction control altogether following. I think you'll find that the car is very predictable and controllable without the e-nannies. Short of making abrupt steering, braking or throttle inputs in turns (as with any RWD car), the car works with you and is great fun to drive hard.

[lavmugen]

Originally Posted by Tochenzo

Congrats on your first HPDE! I am waiting patiently for my first HPDE as well...waiting on finally pulling the trigger on Hankook Ventus Evo's as well to replace the RFT's. I've also got two liters of ATE Type 200 Brake Fluid waiting to go in as well. Hopefully by October I'll be able to share my first DE experience.

Have you pulled the trigger on the Evo's yet? If I may suggest, I would recommend you get Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs if you are thinking about going to the track.

I was seriously debating whether it's worth it for me to pay a little bit more for the Star Specs over the Evos. But at the time I did not plan on doing any HPDE/track event and 90% of my driving is commuting to and from work, so I ended up purchasing the cheaper Evos (they are still very VERY capable summer tires) with a higher treadwear rating.

If I were to do it all over again I would have gone with the Star Specs because of HPDE. It's got better grip and a stiffer sidewall (notice I had put in 42 psi cold on my front tires?). I think the Star Specs are better compromise for street and track if you dont plan to get a set of dedicated track tires/wheels.

[lavmugen]

Originally Posted by aisthetes

Sounds like you're off to a great start, and beginning conservatively is the smart way to go about it.

I think you'll find that once you get a higher comfort level with your car, you'll see that you'll be able to significantly increase your ability to keep up with the other cars in corners just by turning off all traction control devices, without doing any other mods. They're extremely limiting in allowing you to put power down out of turns when in a high performance environment, so you loose apex and corner exit speed. The next step would be getting camber on the front wheels to give you the bite you're lacking, and it goes on from there.

Perhaps try taking DTC off for the next event or two, and if you're comfortable, go to the next step of removing traction control altogether following. I think you'll find that the car is very predictable and controllable without the e-nannies. Short of making abrupt steering, braking or throttle inputs in turns (as with any RWD car), the car works with you and is great fun to drive hard.

i found it quite limiting as well, especiallly coming out of a corner. I would hit the apex and would begin to unwind my steering wheel. But the e-nannies would not let me get on the gas until my steering wheel is almost fully straightened out. I lose a good 0.5~1 sec out of every corner vs. the car infront. I lost a hard fought battle against a 997 C2S in my group because he would just pull away on every corner exit.

I am debating what to do in term of add camber on the front tires. The alignment pin does add a little bit of front camber but nowhere near what is needed. I am debating to go with Vorshlag camber plates alone or wait and get the JIC Cross coilovers (they come with front camber plates). Either way it's big $$. And at the point I would rather spend that same amount of money into more HPDE and improve on my driving first.

I have an autocross event coming up in a 1 week or so that I will try to go around with DTC + DSC "off". It's a safer environment to do it i would think. The worse thing that can happen is that I spin and hit a few rubber cones, vs. spinning on track going 60 mph and into concrete walls.

[Tochenzo]

I have highly considered the star specs but they're usually a size bigger than they say, so a 225/255 setup may not fit on the stock wheels and 215/245 setup does not exist

I was planning on purchasing the Evo's since they're cheap and will mainly be used for the street with my stock wheels. I am getting a set of track wheels early next year which I plan on wrapping them with star specs.

[aisthetes]

Originally Posted by lavmugen

I am debating what to do in term of add camber on the front tires. The alignment pin does add a little bit of front camber but nowhere near what is needed. I am debating to go with Vorshlag camber plates alone or wait and get the JIC Cross coilovers (they come with front camber plates). Either way it's big $$. And at the point I would rather spend that same amount of money into more HPDE and improve on my driving first.

Agreed on learning to maximize your car "as is" before modding heavily. The 135i is already a very capable platform out of the box and I've found is very competitive in auto-x with just a tire swap. I ran mine all stock with Dunlop Star Specs and consistently lead my CCA class, and now have added M3 control arms and Vorshlag camber plates, while still on stock shocks/springs, wheels, motor and brake pads. In this setup, the car is so much better and I can run at the front of the mod class, even vs. the M classes - the car is that good. With wider wheels/tires, LSD and coilovers, it'll be an absolute monster.

I have an autocross event coming up in a 1 week or so that I will try to go around with DTC + DSC "off". It's a safer environment to do it i would think. The worse thing that can happen is that I spin and hit a few rubber cones, vs. spinning on track going 60 mph and into concrete walls.

Absolutely agree. I ran at least three auto-x events to learn the car before hitting the race track. Use the practice sessions to see what happens if you overdrive into a turn, use the throttle too early in a turn, try controlling power slides, drifting, even spinning out, etc. Once you find the limit and exceed it, it's easy to dial back and run fast just under the edge.

That'll keep you out of trouble when at high speeds on a road course, where you can't walk away with just a few cone marks. Probably the biggest thing I had to learn was to adopt the Porsche "slow in, fast out" methodology in attacking 2nd gear tight auto-x turns. Even with camber, the car will still go into a death plow if you get on the throttle too early. Once you hold your speed and practice waiting a bit longer on using full throttle, your times will drop noticeably. In 3rd gear and above turns though, have at it!

[DriveHard]

Congrats Lavmugen,

I also completed my first Time Trial at Lime rock with EMRA this past saturday!! The most fun i have had in a long time with my pants on!

My car had 1001 miles on it and it saw the track for the first time.. Although i auto-x alot ( with my Miata) This was the firsttime on a real road course running all out.

As you, my instructor recommended leaving e-nannies on, and as my sig states, i have 6AT w/paddles.. We agreed to go at it in Sport mode, no paddle shifting, until i was used to the track and the limits of the car...

I posted my fasted time of 1 mIn 10 sec. ( fasted time of the day in a much better class was 1 min 1 sec. BTW)

The traction control limited exit speed thru the esses, but i was ok with that. The transition of Left / right / left was driving the e-nannie crazy.

I bought a set of wheels and tires for track / auto x only and was very happy with the performance of the Hankook RS-3's (225-45-17 on 7.5" wheels all around) ( i wanted same size so i could rotate / and also use the wheels for winter tire use )

Going to Pocono in October... Ill graduate to paddle shifting and e-nannies off in stages...

Have at it.. listen to what the rest have said, and take it piece by piece..