[wannabe]

November 19, 2004

Toyota Prius wins 2005 European Car of the Year
The Toyota Prius has been voted 2005 Car of the Year by the 58 members of the European Car of the Year Jury. After 2 rounds of voting, the car was chosen from a list of 7 finalists and declared winner after gathering 406 points.

Prius, the world's first mass produced hybrid vehicle, is propelled by the combination of an electric motor and a petrol engine. This unique system, called Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive®, will spearhead the development of new environmentally friendly powertrains and is part of Toyota's effort to create the ultimate eco car.

Since its introduction in early 2004, Prius sales in Europe are expected to reach 8,500 units this year. Next year, the sales target has been set at 15,000 units for Europe, whilst an increase in production capacity will allow 180,000 cars to be sold worldwide.

[HRC]

Originally Posted by 3Series06

well I was bored and my friend was telling me about the 2007 g35 ANd I was curious so I went to there site and I found this insulting introduction on the G35 website dissing how they have more horsepower and how they marked BMW's Bench. SO sad how these Companies would do this kind of thing means that they are scared of the 330i taking there market well this is my first post hope it isnt a bad one
well here's the link if u guys are lazy
http://www.infiniti.com/content/0,,c...-12001,00.html

I consider Nissan's antics the ULTIMANT compliment! Companies that show/admit their weekness is caution for me. I like confidence. If your s**t is the on deck, put it out there and let the people crown you champ. Remember the old Hyundai t.v. ads? "Hyundai...YES Hyundai!" Confirmation that yes indeed, it required a double-take...for good reason.

Danny

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by HRC

I consider Nissan's antics the ULTIMANT compliment! Companies that show/admit their weekness is caution for me. I like confidence. If your s**t is the on deck, put it out there and let the people crown you champ. Remember the old Hyundai t.v. ads? "Hyundai...YES Hyundai!" Confirmation that yes indeed, it required a double-take...for good reason.

Danny

I do agree with you...I don't like what Infiniti is doing with those ads either. I think it's tasteless.

Just like the Cadillac commercial with the STS "crashing" the luxury ball that BMW and Mercedes are having and tears up the floor with screeching tires and such. Who ever thought of that commercial should be fired. Completely turns me off...I want a luxury car...not some red-neck outlaw mobile.

In contrast, I love the BMW e90 commercials. 1...2...3. Awesome. It's like here's the new car...and it still owns! Confidence, wins every time.

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by wannabe

November 19, 2004

Prius, the world's first mass produced hybrid vehicle, is propelled by the combination of an electric motor and a petrol engine. This unique system, called Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive®, will spearhead the development of new environmentally friendly powertrains and is part of Toyota's effort to create the ultimate eco car.

This is the same Prius that's only getting 40% of it's claimed EPA gas mileage? I can tell you this much: There are a lot of pissed off Prius and Civic Hybrid owners out there who feel the've been duped by this technology. Why would anyone buy a $23,000 Prius that only get 34 real-world mpg, when they could have bought a $15,000 Corolla (same company) that actually does get 40mpg? On top of all that, these cars are depreciating faster than a Ford Pinto. The long term outlook for these cars isn't that appealing because used car buyers won't want to fork out 4 grand on new battery packs.

Hybrid technology is not the answer...

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

Hybrid technology is not the answer...

I think we all know that the Bush administration agrees...the only answer...world domination!!!

Just kidding.

There is a lot of resistance toward hybrids now...just like ABS, emission controls, airbags, and computer controlled engines...but eventually the technology will get better.

As long as there are waiting lists for that car, they'll keep making it.

Financially, I agree that the hybrids don't make sense. But there are a lot of people that like the fact that it is almost a zero-emission car and they'll pay the premium for that.

It doesn't take away from the innovation and technological success of the Prius.

[e90fanatic]

Honda Accord in Germany or Europe is the Acura TSX in the states

[EBMCS03]

Thats really LOW of Infiniti... They just went several notches down in my book.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by wannabe

I can't tell if a lot of you're guys' bias is racial or not...but simply dismissing the "Japs" because you don't think they come up with anything is ridiculous.

No racial bias here, but why do you play the race card in a discussion about automobiles?

Sure some of the technology that you quoted originated in Japan. Good for them. But that in no way comes close to offsetting that massive copying/theft of German intellectual property by the Japanese. How about copying the auto design of Mercedes and BMW? Just look at Jap designs. Look at the new M45 and the G35. Look at their profiles. Pure BMW. They even copied BMW's Hofmeister Kink.

[DK_12]

So the G35 might be able to go faster than a 330 but what other significant advantage does it have over the BMW? I think the 330 looks better, drives better and defenitely provides a higher quality cabin among many other things. The Nissan company are like dumb American manufacturers that think more power is the answer to every problem, except Nissan engineers their cars fairly well. Infiniti boasts about the G35 having more power than the 330 but most smart people don't really care because they know the 3 drives better and people aren't buying these cars to drag race. There's a reason why the 3 is still the best selling vehicle in its class and still considered "the benchmark."

[voltron1011]

It was mentioned earlier, but I'll repeat it....All you folks talking about how much horsepower the G35 has over the 330, why not just go for a GTO. If you want to be a traffic light racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to be a spec-sheet racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to brag about how much horsepower you car has, buy a new GTO. If you want a car that you will get rid of in 3 months after 'all of the above' gets really old, get a GTO.....
If you want a car that will entice you with a rewarding driving experience every time you sit in it, Get a 3. If you want a car that will make you feel like you are Michael Schumaker, get a 3. If you want a car that will forgive you if you make a slight misjudgement, get a 3. There is so much more to a car than what is written on the spec sheet.

[Athos]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

It was mentioned earlier, but I'll repeat it....All you folks talking about how much horsepower the G35 has over the 330, why not just go for a GTO. If you want to be a traffic light racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to be a spec-sheet racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to brag about how much horsepower you car has, buy a new GTO. If you want a car that you will get rid of in 3 months after 'all of the above' gets really old, get a GTO.....
If you want a car that will entice you with a rewarding driving experience every time you sit in it, Get a 3. If you want a car that will make you feel like you are Michael Schumaker, get a 3. If you want a car that will forgive you if you make a slight misjudgement, get a 3. There is so much more to a car than what is written on the spec sheet.

I agree completely. Plus, with the new GM employee discount program going on for the next month you can get a new GTO with nearly 400hp for a little more than $30K. This is an incredible deal if you want gobs of horsepower and you want to blow people off at stop lights. That's not my bag, baby, so I'd much rather have the 3.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by pharding

No racial bias here, but why do you play the race card in a discussion about automobiles?

Sure some of the technology that you quoted originated in Japan. Good for them. But that in no way comes close to offsetting that massive copying/theft of German intellectual property by the Japanese. How about copying the auto design of Mercedes and BMW? Just look at Jap designs. Look at the new M45 and the G35. Look at their profiles. Pure BMW. They even copied BMW's Hofmeister Kink.

Ok...the G35 and M45 cars copied the 3-series design because it has four doors, a grill, and 2 headlights. Give me a break! Car design can only go so far...and the Japanese have done just about everything to try to break from German design...but you can only go so far as making a car shaped like a car.

Besides, you're telling me they copied the G35 coupe's shape from the 3-series...are you blind? The G35 coupe in no way shape or form a copy the 3-series coupe.

Another thing...does anyone else see the resemblance between the 6-series and the Camaro...I do. The Japanese aren't the only ones that copy.

Besides, how can you say they copied the design when the G35 came out first. Nissan must have had the initial designs drawn up waaay before the e90 designs wers drawn unless BMW had drawings 6-8 years ago.

About the kink thing...what? It's a friggin' line that goes across the side of a car...not some revolutionary aerodynamic feat that the Japanese need to copy. Give me a break...stop giving the German's so much credit. All that kink does is add 1" to the "width" of the car without actually increasing the track width.

Variable valve timing, hybrids, and all other Japapese innovations will do more for the car industry than that stupid "Hofmeister Kink" you guys keep mentioning. Let's see, which is more revolutionary varying engine output according to RPMs and engine load to make the engine more efficient or a purely aesthetic line that runs across the side of the car.

If by German "innovations" you mean shape and "kinks" then you need to look up the word innovations in the dictionary.

Let go of some of your 90's bias and step into the year 2005.

[HRC]

Originally Posted by wannabe

...
About the kink thing...what? It's a friggin' line that goes across the side of a car...not some revolutionary aerodynamic feat that the Japanese need to copy.

Hey wannabe,

I think the "kink" he was referring to is on the C-Pillar. Follow the chrome window trim around to the back door of the car, near where it ends you will see what he is referring to.

Danny

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by HRC

Hey wannabe,

I think the "kink" he was referring to is on the C-Pillar. Follow the chrome window trim around to the back door of the car, near where it ends you will see what he is referring to.

Danny

Oh, okay....then I guess the shape of the rear window is innovative.

That was sarcasm by the way.

[HRC]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Oh, okay....then I guess the shape of the rear window is innovative.

That was sarcasm by the way.

Danny

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by pharding

No racial bias here, but why do you play the race card in a discussion about automobiles?

Sure some of the technology that you quoted originated in Japan. Good for them. But that in no way comes close to offsetting that massive copying/theft of German intellectual property by the Japanese. How about copying the auto design of Mercedes and BMW? Just look at Jap designs. Look at the new M45 and the G35. Look at their profiles. Pure BMW. They even copied BMW's Hofmeister Kink.

I'm really at a loss of where some of these ideas are coming from. That's why I brought up the race thing. First of all, you are showing some racial bias by calling them "Jap" cars.

Next, to competely dismiss the Japanese as thieves and that they never come up with anything is completely ridiculous. I don't even know how you can have this idea in your head. The only conclusion I can come up with is that it has to do with race.

I'm assuming you are white...so forgive me if you are not. Is it possible some of your bias is because you are so disappointed in American cars...that Germany serves as your racial proxy. That anything from Japan, where those slanty-eyed short people live can't possibly be any good?

Please, pharding and ward, explain where you are getting this attitude from? I'm not saying you have to love and buy Japanese cars...but why hate them so much? Why completely dismiss Japanese cars, which, by the way, millions are sold in the United States, as just copies of German cars? Is is possible all those people that buy Japanese cars are just stupid? Is is possible that the Japanese only get by (selling millions and millions of cars across the world) by stealing from the Germans? Or is it possible that your opinion is biased and unsubstantiated? Is it possible that you are just talking out of your a**?

Do you have proof of ANY of the stuff you have said? Pictures of the Japanese stealing confidential BMW files. Confessions by Japanese corporate spies just before they killed themselves? Anything? Do you know from personal experience...or are you talking out of your a**?

Are German cars, the only good ones, and that people should only buy BMW, Mercedes, Audi, or Porsche. I'm really interested how a car enthusiast can have such a point-of-view. It's clear to me that the magazine writers, who have driven every possible car, don't dismiss Japanese cars...and even rank them higher than German cars in some of their comparisons.

Help me understand why you hate Japenese cars so much.

I'm not a fan of American cars...but I don't hate them. I don't say they are compeletely without value or innovation. Just like I don't hold up German cars as the most perfect and every other car in the world is just a cheap copy.

Help me understand.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

It was mentioned earlier, but I'll repeat it....All you folks talking about how much horsepower the G35 has over the 330, why not just go for a GTO. If you want to be a traffic light racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to be a spec-sheet racer, buy a new GTO. If you want to brag about how much horsepower you car has, buy a new GTO. If you want a car that you will get rid of in 3 months after 'all of the above' gets really old, get a GTO.....
If you want a car that will entice you with a rewarding driving experience every time you sit in it, Get a 3. If you want a car that will make you feel like you are Michael Schumaker, get a 3. If you want a car that will forgive you if you make a slight misjudgement, get a 3. There is so much more to a car than what is written on the spec sheet.

If you guys aren't so concerned about horsepower...then why is there so much "creaming of the pants" whenever a post about the supposed 335 or the new V8 in the e90 M3 is written.

You guys like horsepower just as much as anybody else. You are right...horsepower isn't everything...but don't pretend like you wouldn't want more in your BMW.

Just because the G35 has more horsepower right now...don't try to make yourself feel better by downplaying horsepower because you are stuck with a 3.0 liter engine for now. Just enjoy the better fuel mileage and know that the e90 will keep up with the G35.

It's like anything said bad about the 3-series is a personal kick to your groin...you are not your car!!!

And no...if you want a car that makes you feel like Michael Schumaker get a Ferrari.

[Jason]

Some of the discussion in this thread is approaching troll-like character and completely unnecessary other than seemingly to inflame the discussion and other members. I suggest that we discuss this topic in a constructive way without the negativity involved.

[ward]

on a constructive note BMW is putting on a driving event where we get to test the G35, 330, A4 on what looks to be an autocross type track. I'll be testing the 3 on july 9th in san francisco.

hopefully some others are signed up for similar events in other locations and we can all compare notes

[wannabe]

Making sweeping statements like "The Japanese are just thieves" and "The Japanese don't come up with anything on their own" is the troll-like behavior.

Why are such people allowed to make such sweeping and unsubstantiated claims and I get called a troll for questioning their statements and ultimately where they come from?

Just because this is a BMW forum and they are for BMW...does that make it ok to post such stupidity?

[Mark]

this is a car board, not a racial board. end of story. its simple, talk about cars not race.

[wannabe]

Ok, if it's not racial...then I want pharding and ward to tell me why they made those statements. What's their proof?

I didn't want to bring race into this discussion either...but their opinions are so illogical and beyond explanation that I put that forward as a theory.

Please, pharding and ward, prove me wrong. Say something that atleast makes sense towards your arguments that the "Japanese are just theives."

If you look back on this thread...I have been talking about CARS and offering logical and reasonable arguments towards both sides. But I'm not going to let people make those statements without them offering actual and factual proof.