[magamaga]

Hey guys I just bumped into the following article off the local newspaper here in Houston. It seems they are adding up to 10% of ethanol in the gasoline and I wonder if this is recommended for the E90. Ethanol increases the octane level in gas but I still don't know if it is something I should consider at the pump.

What do you guys/gals think?

================================================== =======
Ethanol's impact on rising gas prices



07:42 AM CDT on Wednesday, April 12, 2006



By Jeremy Desel / 11 News

Click to watch video


You are sure to have noticed the price of gas in recent days going up, but have you seen the signs?

KHOU-TV

These signs are appearing on gas pumps around Houston.


If you’ve filled up in recent days, you are using ethanol and probably don’t even know it.

You knew the price hike was likely coming.
“We are looking at maybe another 15-cent increase in price come summer,” energy expert Andrew Lipow said.

That’s already here: ethanol’s impact, according to energy expert Andrew Lipow.

The gas companies won’t confirm, but Triple A said prices are up 50 cents a gallon in Houston in the last month.

“That’s totally unreal for me,” one driver said.

There are several types of ethanol. What is being used here is technically known as E-10. It means the blend is 90 percent gasoline and 10 percent ethanol.

E-10 is approved for use in all vehicles and is even recommended by some manufactures because of its cleaner-burning, high-octane characteristics.

But it has been shown to cause a small drop in fuel efficiency.

Some critics say that could be as high as 20 percent, so watch your tank to see.

“I have noticed in the last couple of weeks my gas has been going real fast,” a driver said. I put in 20 bucks and two days later had to get $25.”

Travis Bryan thinks he’s found a solution.

“It cost me $3 to fill it up,” he said.

The moped isn’t the most glamorous transportation, but it gets 80 miles per gallon.

“Whatever I pay for this monthly would equal a tank of gas in the truck I drive, so I think that it evens out.”

Ethanol is here to stay - like it or not.

[magamaga]

Additional Information I just found. The following is coming from http://www.motor.net.au/VACC/Public/...-42907c2580ca/


Ethanol Use : List of Vehicles
Capability Of Vehicles To Satisfactorily Operate On Ethanol Blend Petrol (10% Or E10 Maximum)

Vehicle manufacturers and importers have provided the following information on the capability of their vehicles to operate on ethanol fuel blends up to a maximum of 10% or E10. Subject to the fuel meeting the octane requirements of the vehicle and complying with relevant mandatory Australian fuel quality standards.

The Commonwealth Government has limited the level of ethanol in petrol in Australia to a maximum of 10%.

Before use of E10 in motor vehicles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer, to check if the fuel is suitable.

Motor Vehicles

Australian Automobile Manufacturers

Holden
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Ford
All Falcon petrol engine vehicles since 1998 will operate satisfactorily on E10. Please contact your local dealer for information on which other Ford vehicles can operate on E10.

Mitsubishi
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mitsubishi vehicles with carburetor fuel systems built before 1991 may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.

Toyota
All petrol engine vehicles since 2000 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Most petrol engine vehicles since 1992 will operate satisfactorily on E10

Except the following models that do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.
Supra (1988-1993), Cresida (1988-1993), Camry (1987-1989), Corolla (1989-1995),
Paseo (1991-1999), Starlet (1996-1999), Land Cruiser (1990-1992), 4Runner (1988-1997), Hiace (1989-97), Tarago (1982-1986), Townace (1996-1998), Hilux (1988-1997), Coaster (1982-1993) and Dyna (1987-1995).

Vehicle Importers

Alfa Romeo
Vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Audi
1.8Lt A3 (2000 onwards) and 2.0Lt A4 (2001 onwards) vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other Audi vehicle models since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Bentley
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

BMW
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Citroen
Citroen do not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol.

Chrysler
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Daewoo
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Daihatsu
Please contact the Daihatsu call centre on &.. for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Honda
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Honda do not recommend it.

Hyundai
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Ferrari
Vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10 in emergency situations only, when other fuels are not available.

Jaguar
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Kia
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Land Rover
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Lexus
Pre May 2002 IS200/300 vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other petrol engine vehicles since 1989 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Maserati
Vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10 in emergency situations only, when other fuels are not available.

Mazda
Mazda2 (2003 onwards), 323 (1994 onwards), Premacy (2000 onwards), Mazda6 (2002 onwards), 800 (1999 onwards), RX-8 (2003 onwards), MPV (1999 onwards), Tribute (2001 onwards), E-series (2002 onwards) and T-series (2001 onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mercedes-Benz
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

MG
MGF (1995-2002), MG ZT(2000 onward) and MG TF(2002 onward) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Nissan
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Peugeot
Please contact the Peugeot call centre on &.. for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Proton
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Rover
Rover 75 (2000 onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Renault
All petrol engine vehicles since 2001 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Renault to not recommend its use

Rolls Royce
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 until 2002 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Saab
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Subaru
Liberty B4 (all year models) and Impreza WRX STI (1999 and 2000) do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other since 1986 petrol engine Subaru vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki
Alto, Mighty Boy, Wagon R+, Swift (Cino), Ignis (2003), Sierra, Stockman, Vitara, X-90, Jimny (1998-2000) and Carry (1985-1998) vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki Baleno and Baleno GTX will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Suzuki do not recommend its use in these vehicles.

Ignis (2000-2002), Liana, Grand Vitara, Carry (1999-2000) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Volkswagen
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Volvo
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Motor Cycles

Before use of E10 in motorcycles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer to check if the fuel is suitable.

BMW
All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Harley Davidson
All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Yamaha
All motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.

Source: Prime Minister's department - Ethanol Working Group

[wheeler]

Been running it for years here in California.

[espo]

Been around for a while here in Buffalo also (at Sunoco). Put it in a couple of times, never really noticed a difference in the car.

The idea is to replace MTBE in the gas with ethanol when they found out that MTBE was leaking in the ground.

:mad: My biggest compaint is that they have mandiated the use in the US without putting the right infastricutre in place to produce and distribute the ethanol in an efficient and timely manner, so in the end the consumer is going to pay and from most projections pay dearly this summer (looking forward to $3+ gas again!!) There is also the possibilities of shortages in areas fartherest from the ethanol supply in the midwest (read look out houston, you might have the oil, but not the ethanol!!)

[E90Fleet]

Problem is ethanol increases the octane rating of fuel, but decreases the available energy in the system, so you dont really see any power gains

[txusa03]

Thanks for the info, I will look for this sign next time I pump shell.

[Hunter399]

I filled up last weekend and got the longest projected range ever

[noflash]

Originally Posted by hunter399

I filled up last weekend and got the longest projected range ever

How does your 'puter know what kind of gas you filled up with?

................................

Anyway, Ethanol is very common in the midwest. The consensus here is that it burns cleaner and erodes hoses and seals at a slightly faster rate.

My experience is that I get 1-2 LESS mpg with it so the cost saving is a wash and I have to fill up slightly more often.

I don't use it, but I imagine I won't have much of a choice in the future.

[CirrusSR22]

ALL gasoline sold in Minnesota has been E10 since 1997. You're all just way behind. j/k

Back when it started, there was concerns over engine damage with E10, but i've never, ever heard of anyone having a problem. The E90 owner manual also states that fuel up to and including 10% Ethanol will NOT void your warranty.

[shragon]

actually in california, ethanol was in gas before mtbe. i think back then they would only run ethanol during the summer. then the switch was made to mtbe, which i believe was year round. then switched back to ethanol after they found out mtbe was leaking into ground water. so, yea, cali has actually be running ethanol again for a few years i think now.

[mapezzul]

we have had that stuff for eons here in NY. The rest of the country is behind the North East and California in all emissions items. NY does not have MTBE, and it is illegal to import gas from another state. Service stations have been caught a lot in the last year doing this so they can keep there profits up as mtbe gas w/o ethanol is substantially cheaper wholesale, so go to PA and get a truck of it! Some states in the mid west have gasoline that has more sulfur content than the diesel fuel here does. Many refiners that supply that area of the country have been slow to meet new regulations and the government keeps giving them extensions..... there is a lot of info on our fuel and the differences in areas of the country on the EPA website.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

ALL gasoline sold in Minnesota has been E10 since 1997. You're all just way behind. j/k

Back when it started, there was concerns over engine damage with E10, but i've never, ever heard of anyone having a problem. The E90 owner manual also states that fuel up to and including 10% Ethanol will NOT void your warranty.

Thanks for letting them know.
Must be some "youngsters".
We've had "10%" formulations for YEARS now.

Oh, some of you may be even more shocked to know that
in many parts of the country there is "winter fuel" and
"summer fuel", and the winter formula leads to lower MPG due to the fuel being "oxygenated". They do it so we can breath a bit better.

[john802]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Problem is ethanol increases the octane rating of fuel, but decreases the available energy in the system, so you dont really see any power gains

That's true. Ethanol is one major component that oil refineries adds to the gasoline to meet the mandated "winter gas" that EPA requires of certain cities here in US that have higher than average smog pollution level. Some refineries even blend 10% or less ethanol to the gas all year round.

[RichReg]

We are all being robbed blind.
Whatever this "ethanol mixture" is , it must have been substantially
increased right after prices of gasoline spiked up in August/September of last year.
I have never had such horrible mileage on my 323Ci and my E90 was getting better
mileage only one month before this shit started.

And so now we're paying EVEN more for watered down gas.
God-damn bastards. These fucking thieves should all be shot.....
or better still, doused in ethanol and lit on fire.

Edit: ...And then while still alive, have their remaining flesh peeled from their bones.
That is truly what they deserve.

[wheeler]

Originally Posted by RichReg

We are all being robbed blind.
Whatever this "ethanol mixture" is , it must have been substantially
increased right after prices of gasoline spiked up in August/September of last year.
I have never had such horrible mileage on my 323Ci and my E90 was getting better
mileage only one month before this shit started.

And so now we're paying EVEN more for watered down gas.
God-damn bastards. These fucking thieves should all be shot.....
or better still, doused in ethanol and lit on fire.

Better to use real gasoline--it burns hotter.

[Artz 330]

Lol, this thread is funny. I was driving with my girl tonight and I went to the gas station. There was 2 gas stations out of super so I drove down to the third. I was told they are adding this to the gas. I was like ok WTF, the guy said yea 93 is like 100 octane. Maybe thats why sunocos around here change their octanes from 87, 89, 93, 94 to 87, 89, 91, and $3.09 for 93. Thats stupid. In the last few days I also noticed how fast my gas was being eatin. Up untill 2 hours ago I thought something was wrong with my car. So the guy at the pump wasnt lieing. So now higher gas prices, fuel effecientcy is dropping so we are going to have to get 3 jobs to pay for gas. On the radio i heard the average person is spending $150 on gas a week. I wont be suprised of gas shotages soon and If you wake up in the morning and someone stole your gas out of your car. This is depressing.

[voltron1011]

The higher the ethanol content you use, the more your gas mileage goes down.

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

The higher the ethanol content you use, the more your gas mileage goes down.

Then what they are all doing is OVER-ADDING ethanol.

[goIrish]

I have to wonder if some simple engine software modifications would improve milegae from E10. In certain parts of the country they are selling E85, yes 85% ethanol. You cannot use this in a standard gas engine.

GM has been rolling out Flexible Fuel vehicles that run on a mix of up to E85 with better efficiency. I'm too lazy to look up what the main differences there are with the engine.

Thank God my AF base service station still has 100% gas.

Only 2 days before I take delivery!!

-----------------------------------
06 325i SG/Blk/AT/PREM/SIR/XENON

[noflash]

Filled up with E10 93 this morning @ $2.95/gal.!!

[E90X3]

when we switched last year to 10% ethanol I noticed an immediate 10%+ decrease in MPG for my ford exploder (went from 19 to 17), and E46 (went from 25.5 to 22.6 average long term)

asked BMW and they said "yes - there might be slight decrease in MPG" - so basically for me - adding 10% ethanol is like adding 10% "water" since it gives me 10% less MPG ! so not only have prices increased but the product has been "watered down 10%"

does anyone know if there is a valid reason for adding it - obviously it is not to save the world since i still use just as must "GAS" - or is it just purely marketing hype ?

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Problem is ethanol increases the octane rating of fuel, but decreases the available energy in the system, so you dont really see any power gains

And hence the lower fuel econonmy - because you need to burn more gas to go the same distance.