Difficulty with Heel-Toe

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by JimD

It is also harder to do when you are doing maximum braking on a track than it is under much more casual driving on the street - at least it is for me. I need more time on a track.

Jim

When I taught my GF and sister to heel-toe, the only problem they had was unintentionally jamming the brake when they'd blip the throttle. Obviously it isn't as big a problem when you're already braking that hard.

[adrean8j]

This was the biggest help for me practicing heel toeing (most dont really "heel toe" in the literal sense...but it suffices as a name for the act of keeping the engine in the rpm range and being able to work the clutch simultaneously):

http://www.ultimatepedals.com/pedal.htm

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

http://www.ultimatepedals.com/pedal.htm

Thats what I have! You can order the gas pedal w different side extensions for easier heel & toe. high quality item

[adrean8j]

It helps me because I guess my foot is not wide enough to do the "roll" technique and ankles aren't flexible enough to do it the real way.

[Kcyrusm]

Originally Posted by syenisch

Are you truly heel and toe-ing? I found it more comfortable to brake with the left and middle of my foot and roll my foot to the right so that the right side blips the throttle.

Actually, I don't really use my heel at all, like a lot of you guys. I roll my right foot to the gas to rev-match while braking. I didn't realize so many other people do that? It just came more naturally and easier to me. I should probably clarify and say my 135i hasn't arrived yet, but that I've test driven some 3 series' and an M3, as well as MINI's which seem to have the same initial bite on the brakes and throttle response.

I'm not sure if these 135's are the same, but BMW's and MINI's I've driven seem to have HORRIBLE throttle response compared to my Honda's... There's like a half second delay between the time you hit the gas pedal and when it reacts. Disappointing to me... seems like you have to get blip the throttle earlier and wait for it to actually do something before you can slip in the lower gear when you are finally at the revs you want to be at.

I guess I'm just not used to it: quick bite and response from the brakes, and slow throttle response from the gas peddle. That's the way it feels to me at least. Maybe when my 135i finally gets here sometime this week (hopefully), I'll find it to be different and change my opinion

[Lubo]

Originally Posted by Kcyrusm

Actually, I don't really use my heel at all, like a lot of you guys. I roll my right foot to the gas to rev-match while braking. I didn't realize so many other people do that? It just came more naturally and easier to me. I should probably clarify and say my 135i hasn't arrived yet, but that I've test driven some 3 series' and an M3, as well as MINI's which seem to have the same initial bite on the brakes and throttle response.

I'm not sure if these 135's are the same, but BMW's and MINI's I've driven seem to have HORRIBLE throttle response compared to my Honda's... There's like a half second delay between the time you hit the gas pedal and when it reacts. Disappointing to me... seems like you have to get blip the throttle earlier and wait for it to actually do something before you can slip in the lower gear when you are finally at the revs you want to be at.

I guess I'm just not used to it: quick bite and response from the brakes, and slow throttle response from the gas peddle. That's the way it feels to me at least. Maybe when my 135i finally gets here sometime this week (hopefully), I'll find it to be different and change my opinion

Definitely takes some adjustments. Also remove CDV, for smoother clutch operation.

[aisthetes]

Originally Posted by Kcyrusm

I guess I'm just not used to it: quick bite and response from the brakes, and slow throttle response from the gas peddle. That's the way it feels to me at least. Maybe when my 135i finally gets here sometime this week (hopefully), I'll find it to be different and change my opinion

That's unfortunately the trade-off in going F/I. I miss N/A and will probably go back to get what I want out of a track car. As great as the 135i is as an overall package, it'll never come close to the throttle response of your Hondas, so you'll need to learn to drive around it.

[msos]

Does it for you................

[Groundpilot]

LOL. Agree 100%.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Thats what I have! You can order the gas pedal w different side extensions for easier heel & toe. high quality item

which one do you use?

I took a skip barber class with the open wheel cars, was taught to roll your foot over to blip, I find it hard to do on the 135i

on those cars you cannot left foot brake, because the steering stem goes between your feet

[pixelblue]

^I got the normal one with no extensions. I may get the one with the upper extension for next years track season and just swap out at the track. actually rolling off the brake is easier on our cars than using your heel.

[imported_mega]

my leg hits the transmission tunnel when I try to roll onto the gas, if I'm at track speed I can do it, because the brake is depressed a lot closer to the gas pedal, but it's hard to practice that on the street

I'm thinking of getting the full extension, it wont bother me at all if they are very close

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by imported_mega

I took a skip barber class with the open wheel cars, was taught to roll your foot over to blip, I find it hard to do on the 135i

I found it hard at first only because it is different than what I was used to.

This is my advice:

1. sit in your driveway or a parking lot with the shifter in neutral
2. leave your heel on the gas, reach over and press the brake with the ball of your foot
3. holding the brake down, try to roll the right side of your heel/arch into the gas pedal
4. get used to doing that with the car not moving and the brake steady
5. when that starts feeling comfortable, try it with the car moving - focus your attention on modulating the brake, blip fast, and don't worry about the clutch because your left foot already knows how to do that

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by GaryS

I found it hard at first only because it is different than what I was used to.

This is my advice:

1. sit in your driveway or a parking lot with the shifter in neutral
2. leave your heel on the gas, reach over and press the brake with the ball of your foot
3. holding the brake down, try to roll the right side of your heel/arch into the gas pedal
4. get used to doing that with the car not moving and the brake steady
5. when that starts feeling comfortable, try it with the car moving - focus your attention on modulating the brake, blip fast, and don't worry about the clutch because your left foot already knows how to do that

I may not have been clear, I found it easy and natural on the skip barber miata and open wheel cars.

but on my 135i the pedals are too far apart for me to reach when I roll, my leg hits the firewall before it pushes the pedal enough to blip the throttle

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by imported_mega

I may not have been clear, I found it easy and natural on the skip barber miata and open wheel cars.

but on my 135i the pedals are too far apart for me to reach when I roll, my leg hits the firewall before it pushes the pedal enough to blip the throttle

I was assuming the Miata pedals were similar to the RX-8 pedals I showed. Here's the pic again. Because the BMW and Mazda pedal arrangements are so different, I had to find a different way to hold my foot in the 135i. My point is that it's easy to find a comfortable approach when the car is not moving, but very difficult when the car is moving.

edit: oops, here's the pic

[imported_mega]

I cant reach it when I'm moving or stopped, and I can just barely do it under very hard braking, my ankle is not flexible enough to bend over that far

[Kcyrusm]

OK, so my car came in. I must admit, the 135i is a lot easier to heel-to than other BMW's I've driven.

[gap]

I got this in black and it works just great, a little pricey but worth it.

http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Alu...P71%2E60%2E58/

The adjustable lifter plate shown at the bottom puts the gas pedal and depressed brake pedal at the same height. I got the side extensions but took it off because it put the gas and brake pedal too close together.

[aisthetes]

Originally Posted by gap

I got this in black and it works just great, a little pricey but worth it.

http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Alu...P71%2E60%2E58/

The adjustable lifter plate shown at the bottom puts the gas pedal and depressed brake pedal at the same height. I got the side extensions but took it off because it put the gas and brake pedal too close together.

These are awesome. Great find!

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by JimD

Another thing that was interesting was listening to the DCT blip the throttle on downshifts. It did not seem to do it unless the rpms were several thousand and did it more obviously when you were up around red line. Just for practice, I do it pretty much on every downshift. I just blip it more when I am downshifting at higher rpm.

Jim

That's why it's called rev-matching. Have fun on the track.

[JimD]

I find it easy to practice on the street when I am not driving agressively. If my foot is mis-positioned and I do not brake as much as I need to, I have time to correct under these circumstances. The biggest thing for me is to get my right foot on the brake but far enough over to catch the gas pedal too. I can do this much easier in my bimmer than in my Suzuki SUV. I am getting to the point I can do it pretty consistently in the SUV which makes the bimmer feel easy.

If my knee was hitting the console, I think I'd try moving the seat back a few clicks.

Jim

[gnpower]

I guess it's just me, but I have a hard time blipping the gas while toeing the brake. I just can't get my foot to go that angle. My camaro was so much easier. Although my camoro had like a floating gas pedel where as the 135 swivels from the bottom. I feel I have to press the gas from the top of the pedel to get any movement out of it. anyone else feel this way?